Australian Cycling Forums - Bicycles Network Australia

Looking at the heart rate you put in an honest performance, bloody well done mate!

Old and Rusty wrote:Looking at the heart rate you put in an honest performance, bloody well done mate!

Thanks, buddy.

Yes, that was interesting. Didn't drop as much as i expected on the descents, and it didn't feel like I wasn't recovering on the ride, but you are pulling on the bars a lot to hoik the bike over obstacles and standing up with your knees bent to absorb the shocks (even with 5" of rear travel) so it makes sense, I suppose. And on the flat sections by Wakehurst Parkway it's either super twisty or you have lots of rocky sections to manhandle your bike over.

The quick youngsters do it in low 30's and some even sub 30 minutes.

OK, I'm now convinced...motor scooters are the new vehicle of choice for the disturbed element. Thankfully, their redeeming feature is that they'll generally wipe themselves out without taking anyone with them. The number of these things ridden by generally unskilled (and probably unlicensed) riders is starting to stagger me. Road positioning, bike handling and spatial awareness are all sadly, and quite potentially fatally, lacking. If I hear one coming, I get nervous, more so than with cars now, because of the general lack of skill of the riders.

Yesterday, I watched Darwinistic motor scooter #1 squeeze between one car turning right and a car travelling straight through a set of lights at close to 50km/h without thinking what might happen once she and the car reached the other side of the intersection. What then happened was the (unaware) driver forced her to the wrong side of the road, into oncoming traffic, along which she continued to travel hanging off the back corner of the car, until turning right over 200m away.

This morning, motor scooter #2 rides up my right hand side and performs a straight-through at roundabout (whilst I was in a car, mind you). I turn further left into roundabout to avoid said tool, earning the finger for my horn-work (damn fine horn-work I might add).

Jim

Colin_T wrote:Apparently the family thinks this latest incident (wiping out his car, hospitalising his sister and owing the bank a lot of money) will turn him around. If it doesn't then what will it take to turn people like this around and get them to be more careful on the road.

Oh dear! This reminds me of my dear brother, who fortunately is not as bad... although he has written off several vehicles

In his younger years, he was disqualified from driving but continued to drive "only about 1000km a week" which was "ok" because "he was being really careful". I'm sure

More recently he was disqualified from driving again but this time took to cycling instead of driving and didn't drive while disqualified. I would not say he is "reformed" as such, as he is still pretty irresponsible, however, at least he didn't drive while disqualified this time.

Hardly the only one. The telegraph (not known for its typing accuracy), reported recently that 60,000 people were caught driving on suspended licences in NSW last year. Given that they the suspend about 180,000 licences a year, pretty big statistic.

Yeah, how many times do you hear about a driver being caught who is driving while disqualified, in an unregistered, unroadworthy car. These things seem to go hand in hand.

familyguy wrote:OK, I'm now convinced...motor scooters are the new vehicle of choice for the disturbed element.
Jim

Hahaha they certainly march to the beat of a different drum. Anyone who remembers all the Mod Rockers etc riding Vespas with a dozen mirrors and whip antennae on the bikes would agree. Youtube is another testament to the mental state of scooter riders.

Commodore drivers with the southern cross sticker on the rear window are easily take scum of the earth award.

Case in point: the moron that tried to overtake me when I was in the right lane of Riversdale rd in Hawthorn, heading towards the city, doing 55-60...

People that know the road, will know what the traffic out bound from the city is like at 6:15ish.

Idiot of the week without fail.

Not sure if this belongs here, or in the idiot cyclists thread. I think I was partly (10-20%?) to blame, haven't called police yet, but considering it. Heres what happened. Sorry about the amount of detail, but I may go to the cops with this so I want it to be complete and accurate.

Was having an enjoyable Saturday morning ride. At approx. 11:45am, rolling south-west down Outram St I caught up to the 2 vehicles ahead. The first was indicating to turn left into Stanley St. Tailgaiting them was a f***tard in a late model black Mitsubishi triton with the full wankerpack of chrome rollbar, nudge-bar etc. He was not indicating, so I thought he would be continuing straight ahead. At this stage we were going uphill, but I wanted to carry my speed, so I moved to go up the inside of the Triton for the left turn. All good - until he saw me and swerved to his left (still not indicating) and braked quite hard! Thank god I already had my fingertips on the brakes. I hauled them on. My rear skidded. My front contacted his rear bumper, and locked up briefly too. Not sure if it was my overzealous braking or the contact with his bumper or both that made my front wheel skid. Not liking pain as I do I refrained from falling off. He was watching me in his mirror and having a good old laugh. He didn't need to be proficient at lipreading to know what I was saying! I though he was going to pull over and have a go, but he then accelerated away.

As I said, I was probably partly to blame. I was perhaps too close to the vehicle in front of me and I assumed that no indication meant he wasn't turning. I failed to recognise him as an idiot, even though he was tailgating the car in front of him. Also, I don't think I signaled to turn myself, mostly because I had both hands ready on the brakes, and because I'd been moving at a fair clip (close to, but not exceeding 60kph) and the road surface was somewhat rough / bumpy. Also, there was no car behind me, and I doubt that my signaling would have made the prick in the Triton drive any differently, however it would almost certainly have prevented me from staying upright.

I rode to the next intersection and stopped (AT) the chemist there where I borrowed a pen to write down the moron's number-plate: A-30-GK. I didn't realise how much adrenaline I had pumping through me until I got off the bike! Then I headed home, up a short steep hill that usually takes a bit out of me - today I fair flew up it.

Whats the verdict from you lot. Should I contact the police by phone and make a complaint? Go to the station and make a statement and push for him to be charged? - With what? Negligent driving? Undue care and attention? I will learn from this, and in future ride more defensively.
I already consider myself a fairly sensible road user, and I'm mostly quite courteous when on my bike. I "claim the lane" when I need to - roundabouts or downhill where I'm moving as fast as the trafffic, but I allow cars past at other times, and I nearly always give a friendly wave, or nod of the head if I need both hands on the bars, to motorists who give way to me.

Spork! wrote:Not sure if this belongs here, or in the idiot cyclists thread. I think I was partly (10-20%?) to blame, haven't called police yet, but considering it. Heres what happened. Sorry about the amount of detail, but I may go to the cops with this so I want it to be complete and accurate.

Was having an enjoyable Saturday morning ride. At approx. 11:45am, rolling south-west down Outram St I caught up to the 2 vehicles ahead. The first was indicating to turn left into Stanley St. Tailgaiting them was a f***tard in a late model black Mitsubishi triton with the full wankerpack of chrome rollbar, nudge-bar etc. He was not indicating, so I thought he would be continuing straight ahead. At this stage we were going uphill, but I wanted to carry my speed, so I moved to go up the inside of the Triton for the left turn. All good - until he saw me and swerved to his left (still not indicating) and braked quite hard! Thank god I already had my fingertips on the brakes. I hauled them on. My rear skidded. My front contacted his rear bumper, and locked up briefly too. Not sure if it was my overzealous braking or the contact with his bumper or both that made my front wheel skid. Not liking pain as I do I refrained from falling off. He was watching me in his mirror and having a good old laugh. He didn't need to be proficient at lipreading to know what I was saying! I though he was going to pull over and have a go, but he then accelerated away.

As I said, I was probably partly to blame. I was perhaps too close to the vehicle in front of me and I assumed that no indication meant he wasn't turning. I failed to recognise him as an idiot, even though he was tailgating the car in front of him. Also, I don't think I signaled to turn myself, mostly because I had both hands ready on the brakes, and because I'd been moving at a fair clip (close to, but not exceeding 60kph) and the road surface was somewhat rough / bumpy. Also, there was no car behind me, and I doubt that my signaling would have made the prick in the Triton drive any differently, however it would almost certainly have prevented me from staying upright.

I rode to the next intersection and stopped (AT) the chemist there where I borrowed a pen to write down the moron's number-plate: D-30-GK. I didn't realise how much adrenaline I had pumping through me until I got off the bike! Then I headed home, up a short steep hill that usually takes a bit out of me - today I fair flew up it.

Whats the verdict from you lot. Should I contact the police by phone and make a complaint? Go to the station and make a statement and push for him to be charged? - With what? Negligent driving? Undue care and attention? I will learn from this, and in future ride more defensively.
I already consider myself a fairly sensible road user, and I'm mostly quite courteous when on my bike. I "claim the lane" when I need to - roundabouts or downhill where I'm moving as fast as the trafffic, but I allow cars past at other times, and I nearly always give a friendly wave, or nod of the head if I need both hands on the bars, to motorists who give way to me.

No use going to the police it isn't even clear that an offense was committed here by the driver apart from failure to indicate. (Well you could claim leaving the scene of an accident but that may not go down well for you.)

Of course by you description the driver sounds like he undertook a deliberately malicious act. The fact that you hit him and he drove off indicates that this is the case, most normal drivers will get out and worry about their car!

To top it all off we all know that police don't care about such incidents even when there is a video evidence.

you should report it, but having said that, never go up the inside of traffic on the approach to an intersection. LH turners often merge towards the kerb before commencing their turn (it doesn't make sense, it seems to be just instinctive for some drivers) and others don't indicate before turning and will cut across your bow.

Spork! wrote: At approx. 11:45am, rolling south-west down Outram St I caught up to the 2 vehicles ahead. The first was indicating to turn left into Stanley St. Tailgaiting them was a f***tard in a late model black Mitsubishi triton with the full wankerpack of chrome rollbar, nudge-bar etc. He was not indicating, so I thought he would be continuing straight ahead. At this stage we were going uphill, but I wanted to carry my speed, so I moved to go up the inside of the Triton for the left turn. All good - until he saw me and swerved to his left (still not indicating) and braked quite hard! Thank god I already had my fingertips on the brakes. I hauled them on. My rear skidded. My front contacted his rear bumper, and locked up briefly too. Not sure if it was my overzealous braking or the contact with his bumper or both that made my front wheel skid. Not liking pain as I do I refrained from falling off. He was watching me in his mirror and having a good old laugh. He didn't need to be proficient at lipreading to know what I was saying! I though he was going to pull over and have a go, but he then accelerated away.

a couple of points that should be reported to the Police.
1 he was tailgating another vehicle. No need to tell them you were
2 he failed to use his indicators and then turned left in front of you, (at least I assume he turned left eventually)
3 he swerved into you and stepped on the brakes causing you to run into the back of him. Cars stop much quicker than pushbikes at high speed, (ie: 60kph).
4 he laughed at you as he drove off. He obviously had no regard for cyclists and did it deliberately to teach you a lesson, (ie: get off his road). 3 & 4 go together, he swerved into you and drove off laughing.

The Police should look into it because he might have a history of doing stupid things like that to other orad users including cyclists. It's certainly not normal behaviour that the avergae motorist would do.

@Spork! - bicycles are exempted from indicating left turns. However, they must indicate right turns.

The fact the guy moved in on you while you were executing a manouver that is legal for a bicycle (move left and overtake on the left in the absence of a left turn signal) means you have done nothing wrong at law, althoug I agree your view that it was perhaps rather unwise in hindsight.

All I can say is that seems that the tards are multiplying.

Colin_T wrote: a couple of points that should be reported to the Police.
1 he was tailgating another vehicle. No need to tell them you were
2 he failed to use his indicators and then turned left in front of you, (at least I assume he turned left eventually)
3 he swerved into you and stepped on the brakes causing you to run into the back of him. Cars stop much quicker than pushbikes at high speed, (ie: 60kph).
4 he laughed at you as he drove off. He obviously had no regard for cyclists and did it deliberately to teach you a lesson, (ie: get off his road). 3 & 4 go together, he swerved into you and drove off laughing.

The Police should look into it because he might have a history of doing stupid things like that to other orad users including cyclists. It's certainly not normal behaviour that the avergae motorist would do.

There seems to be a persistant delusion amoung some cyclists that the police care! The police don't keep a record on every driver. They don't keep some big 'history' that adds up and eventually the driver gets fined. Really there is little use reporting stuff like this.

Further more an offense (in a legal sense) was barely committed here. From your points above:
1. Tailgaiting is rarely enforced even when witness by polices.
2. Fail to indicate. yep thats an offense but hardly worth reporting every time you see it occur!
3. Swerved and braked? The car was turnign left! That is what cars do when they turn left.
4. Laughed at the cyclist!? Im not sure that is a traffic offense either.

Now don't get me wrong. Like I posted earlier it sounds like the driver may have been deliberately being a !! BAN ME NOW FOR SWEARING !! towards Spork. It makes me angry that there are motorists like him out there. But as I said the only real relevent traffic offense is lack of indication.

I have the solution but the wowsers and pacifists of this world will call me a thug and a menace to society. I'd like to see one of the riders who commutes every day put on a backpack an put some baseball cleat shoes in it and have a baseball bat protruding obviously from the top of the pack. I'd put a hundred down that incidents would be reduced by 9/10. Until these morons have something to fear, be it only a perceived fear they will continue to treat cyclists with contempt.
Before you pacifists, wowsers and professional victims throw your arms in the air, I'm simply suggesting an experiment not advocating violence.
I remember vividly the efforts and campaigns by MRA (Motorcycle Riders Association) to educate drivers, governments and the political decision makers, it took years and it took alot of rallies and protests to get RTA education campaigns and motorcycle awareness happening and then there was education of riders to contend with. Educating riders was the greatest success in my opinion as riders started to ensure that the drivers couldn't get them by using defensive riding techniques. These techniques and awareness have gotten me out of 3 near misses on my cycle and hundreds over the years on motorbikes.

@human909, you hit the nail on the head that it's delusional to think the police give a rats about the problem. They are way overworked and the general morale of the force is around their ankles.

@Spork, report it as a collision with a damaged front rim and tell the cops you wish to take action to claim damages. Then go visit the guy on the way home from baseball training.. JUST KIDDING!!!

Another week in Sydney, another 5 days of cycle commuting, another round of blind/ignorant/rude/arrogant motorists . (oh, and the cutest little Police car ).
Last week was uncharacteristically ridiculous for idiotic drivers.

I love my air horn - people don't seem to be able to hear it though. For all of these incidents I saw what the drivers were doing fortunately. Someone f@%king had to. Would've been nice for the drivers to actually know Say What was happening. /vent over

Slo-mo Air Zound is awesome.



Edit: for typos

human909 wrote: They don't keep some big 'history' that adds up and eventually the driver gets fined. Really there is little use reporting stuff like this.

Hi

I can only comment in respect of WA, and in the case of WA, this statement is not correct at all. The WA Police maintains an intelligence database of report incidents. It is one of the reasons I suspect that they have online reporting ... it makes this much easier for them.

Regards
Andrew

Aushiker wrote:Hi

I can only comment in respect of WA, and in the case of WA, this statement is not correct at all. The WA Police maintains an intelligence database of report incidents. It is one of the reasons I suspect that they have online reporting ... it makes this much easier for them.

Regards
Andrew

Hey Andrew,

I might be quite wrong in my cynical view of police's attitude towards these things and I'm sure it varies between states.

Thats said I'm quite curious what form of incident reports goes into this database. In this circumstance as I have said I don't believe that any offense has been committed by the driver. In fact it would be highly prejudicial if something like this goes on police database where no offense has even been alleged.

Sure if a real offense occured and was alleged, even if no charges were eventually followed through with then that should and would go on a police database. (like numerous threats and minor/major assaults that have been discussed on these forums). Though often I suspect not all such reported offenses ended up there because the police are often lazy and reluctant to care.

I'm more than a little negative towards police and their attitude towards cyclists from hearing stories on these forums. In Victoria they been issuing regular press releases blaming cyclists for the number of cyclist injuries. Blaming cyclists for not being visible in broad daylight, fining cyclists for not having bells. Meanwhile some of our councils have been digging up intersections in an unsuccessful effort to make cars look.

Fortunately, through defensive cycling I have only had a couple severe road rage incidents and never come close to being hit. So I have had to deal with it all.

Boognoss wrote:Another week in Sydney, another 5 days of cycle commuting, another round of blind/ignorant/rude/arrogant motorists . (oh, and the cutest little Police car ).
Last week was uncharacteristically ridiculous for idiotic drivers.

I love my air horn - people don't seem to be able to hear it though. For all of these incidents I saw what the drivers were doing fortunately. Someone f@%king had to. Would've been nice for the drivers to actually know Say What was happening. /vent over

Slo-mo Air Zound is awesome.



Edit: for typos

Wow, what a close call with the black 4WD at the end!

Belting down a steep hill at 50 Kmh?(don't have a speedo) only to have a car pull out from a side street to in front of me and stop to turn right, only way I could avoid them was to go up the left side of them, they then did the move left before turning right and I squeezed through with inches to spare.

Thanks to a late callout for a Saturday night shift I had to drive in.

Too many to recount, but special damnation to the cretin in the purple Maloo who exited the freeway at a 45 degree angle from the right lane at an easy 115. Millimetres...

These days I actually feel safer on the bike.

Shaun

A big helloo to the guy in the VicRoads ute who drove straight across the shared path in St Georges Road this morning, blithly ignoring me and my blazing lights and forcing me to brake heavily to avoid running straight into the side of him.

Twat.

WorkingClassHero wrote:A big helloo to the guy in the VicRoads ute who drove straight across the shared path in St Georges Road this morning, blithly ignoring me and my blazing lights and forcing me to brake heavily to avoid running straight into the side of him.

Twat.

Report it to Vicroads. Companies normally take dangerous driving by their employees quite seriously. I suspect VicRoads even more so. It takes not much longer to fly off an email to VicRoads as it does a forum post.

Regarding reporting to the Police, the aim is not to get the driver fined. YOu need to thnk longer term and more strategically.

Without clear footage it's an impossibility unless the driver drops himself in it, but I hear from the boys and girls in blue that it happens with surprising regularity. Generally these incidents give them something to do for amusement on a slow day - and they find it highly amusing when a tard drops themselves in it. It's kinda like fishing, with our incidents as bait. So we need to have realistic expectations there.

The real plan here is to get the issue on their radar. Like Andrew has said, mostif not all state police forces have a database of incidents. Even if it's not investigated, it goes on record. The plebs at the coal face won't give a rats - you're right - but higher up the tree you can be certain that someone is doing strategic analysis on traffic incident trends on a regular basis. These reports will form one information source.

And that is when the effort we put in at logging traffic incidents starts to get legs. Especially when the count goes up dramatically. Then you will find the grunts start to take notice, because they will have been told to.

Your report may not always get in the system, but by not reporting at all you are ensuring that it will never be recorded.

To get onto the virtuous circle we must all start logging incidents now.

trailgumby wrote:The real plan here is to get the issue on their radar. Like Andrew has said, mostif not all state police forces have a database of incidents. Even if it's not investigated, it goes on record. The plebs at the coal face won't give a rats - you're right - but higher up the tree you can be certain that someone is doing strategic analysis on traffic incident trends on a regular basis. These reports will form one information source.

Hi

Agree 100%. Since I started regularly reporting the incidents, the road where the most of them occur, West Coast Drive, has resulted in actual police patrols and and I have received one formal follow-up and one formal apology.

Also I suspect some of these drivers would have got a fright when the Police phoned or came a knocking.

Andrew