900 Lumen Ebay lights

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900 Lumen Ebay lights

Postby Marty Moose » Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:51 pm

900 Lumen Ebay lights anyone bought one of these ?? http://cgi.ebay.com/SSC-P7-LED-900-Lumens-Rechargeable-Bike-Light-Charger-/170440286907?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27af0862bb

They look the same as the ones in my LBS for $200 and cost about $100 on ebay.
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by BNA » Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:04 pm

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Re: 900 Lumen Ebay lights

Postby }SkOrPn--7 » Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:04 pm

Same as these from dealextreme and you save money because of free shipping. Many have used these and they do the job very well........

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.29489

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.25149
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Re: 900 Lumen Ebay lights

Postby mikedufty » Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:09 pm

Dealextreme have the same light set a little cheaper ($78 including shipping.)

I got a torch from dealextreme with the same LED emitter (SSCP7) and it is really good.
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.15739
includes a useful low power mode.

The torch is very neat and compact with a $2 handlebar mount. The only reason I can see to get the bike light set you linked to is if you need several hours runtime without a break to change batteries. I usually ride less than an hour and have had no problem with a single battery on high beam.
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Re: 900 Lumen Ebay lights

Postby damonik » Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:17 pm

Went into a lbs in Perth here today and saw the exact same Magicshine lights on the counter there - Slightly different box but the light was exactly the same as mine. They wanted $200 for them;) Told them I bought them online for USD$80, don't think that went down too well.
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Re: 900 Lumen Ebay lights

Postby Marty Moose » Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:36 pm

Just bought one from deal extreme you guys rock thankyou :) :) :) Yes LBS just lost out! Its a shame but I'm not paying double the price thats just stupid. I don't know who the importer is but I also work part time in a M/C shop and the suppliers are often the same as the bike shop ones, the same situation exists with M/C its cheaper to import much cheaper. If it was 10-20% more the LBS would win but over 100% sorry I work hard for my $$$$

Cheers
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Re: 900 Lumen Ebay lights

Postby }SkOrPn--7 » Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:46 pm

damonik wrote:Went into a lbs in Perth here today and saw the exact same Magicshine lights on the counter there - Slightly different box but the light was exactly the same as mine. They wanted $200 for them;) Told them I bought them online for USD$80, don't think that went down too well.


I might be a little off base here and completely wrong because I don't think there is a importer in this country for these lights but....... So in my opinion it's my belief that this bike shop got wind of how well this light works and what favourable reviews there getting making a purchase from the likes of dealextreme then jacking the price up to $200 clams so some easy sucker comes along ripping them off. Now if this is true then all well and good for the LBS some knob will get stung who isn't in the know and they make a good profit. Now like Marty Moose said if they added a fair mark-up then more than likely many of us would buy from the local shop but this kind of thing just adds weight to why many of us buy from OS and not even walk into the LBS these days.

I'm with you Marty Moose I also work hard for my $$$ and I will spend it where it will give me best bang for buck and I feel comfortable doing that I no longer belief in loyalty that has long gone and so has my support.
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Re: 900 Lumen Ebay lights

Postby damonik » Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:15 pm

}SkOrPn--7 wrote:I might be a little off base here and completely wrong because I don't think there is a importer in this country for these lights but....... So in my opinion it's my belief that this bike shop got wind of how well this light works and what favourable reviews there getting making a purchase from the likes of dealextreme then jacking the price up to $200 clams so some easy sucker comes along ripping them off. Now if this is true then all well and good for the LBS some knob will get stung who isn't in the know and they make a good profit. Now like Marty Moose said if they added a fair mark-up then more than likely many of us would buy from the local shop but this kind of thing just adds weight to why many of us buy from OS and not even walk into the LBS these days.

I'm with you Marty Moose I also work hard for my $$$ and I will spend it where it will give me best bang for buck and I feel comfortable doing that I no longer belief in loyalty that has long gone and so has my support.


Who knows - I didn't pay any attention to what the name on the box was, but it wasn't MagicShine - it was the same box with the magnetic lid and the foam inserts inside, just a different brand name on the front. Rather shameless charging $200 for it I thought!
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Re: 900 Lumen Ebay lights

Postby rkelsen » Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:18 pm

What's the difference between "cree" leds and non-cree ones?
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Re: 900 Lumen Ebay lights

Postby }SkOrPn--7 » Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:20 pm

Ah ok damonik then if it wasn't MagicShine then it's plausible that there is a importer for that brand he was selling and if that is the case then we all know that would be a fair price they are charging due to all the hands that have access to the $$$ pie before the LBS makes a profit................
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Re: 900 Lumen Ebay lights

Postby eeksll » Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:56 pm

rkelsen wrote:What's the difference between "cree" leds and non-cree ones?


AFAIK cree is are manufacturer of LED's (SSC is the only other one I have heard of)
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Re: 900 Lumen Ebay lights

Postby slowflow » Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:12 am

Lots of LED manufactures & rebranders. Luxion, another LED field leader.
The DX claim of 900 lumen in manufacture guess & by all accounts output is typically around 600 lumen for Dx & Magicshine. They use the same emitter.
My Dx light is great, hopefully you will be happy with the purchase
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Re: 900 Lumen Ebay lights

Postby boren » Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:16 am

Something seemed a little fishy to me here. I'm not an expert on white led efficiency so maybe someone that has them can prove me wrong, but I don't think these are long for the world. Here's why:

1. LEDs die by becoming dimmer.
2. If you run too much power through them they die sooner. Sometime much sooner. (10,000 hours vs 100 say)

So, let's take the little bit of info they give us. 4 lion batteries. That type is 2.2ah each, so basically 10ah for 4. 3 hours battery life, so 10/3 = 3amps. 3amps at ~ 3volts, around 10 watts. That's a lot of power! Are there multiple leds in each unit? From the roughly same calculations the Ayup's are running at ~350ma.

Now, we need to relate this to what leds are designed to do. I could pull lots of data sheets, but this page condenses the info:

http://members.misty.com/don/led.html#w

Even his latest update from Jan indicates the highest power LEDs (Cree manufactured, coincidence?) have a maximum current of 1amp. I would guess there are either 3 leds in there, or more likely they are being over driven at 3x their max rated current. If that's the case that's bad news for life.

Also watch out for those cells. They look like 4 lion batteries wrapped in heat shrink. Who knows if they have any short circuit protection. Lion batteries catching fire, exploding if you will, is a pretty nasty issue.

Just be careful.
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Re: 900 Lumen Ebay lights

Postby Jean » Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:35 am

damonik wrote:Went into a lbs in Perth here today and saw the exact same Magicshine lights on the counter there - Slightly different box but the light was exactly the same as mine. They wanted $200 for them;) Told them I bought them online for USD$80, don't think that went down too well.


I gather that there is an Australian importer for these lights. I recall seeing their website recently. What the local guy does, I understand, is supply a reliable (?) charger that meets Australian standards. There might be other tweaks, I don't know. Whether you think a Australian standards charger is worth the $$ is an individual thing I suppose. Cheaper than a burned down house I guess.
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Re: 900 Lumen Ebay lights

Postby rkelsen » Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:36 am

boren wrote:Something seemed a little fishy to me here.

Interesting first post. Do you have an agenda?

FWIW, current isn't "driven," it's drawn... which is why your 500mA clock radio doesn't explode when plugged into a 10A powerpoint.

Everything will be fine as long as the voltages match. Note that operating the other way around, (i.e. battery capacity lower than current draw of the lights) would lead to the battery overheating and failing prematurely.
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Re: 900 Lumen Ebay lights

Postby Nate » Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:45 am

boren wrote:Something seemed a little fishy to me here. I'm not an expert on white led efficiency so maybe someone that has them can prove me wrong, but I don't think these are long for the world. Here's why:

Even his latest update from Jan indicates the highest power LEDs (Cree manufactured, coincidence?) have a maximum current of 1amp. I would guess there are either 3 leds in there, or more likely they are being over driven at 3x their max rated current. If that's the case that's bad news for life.

Also watch out for those cells. They look like 4 lion batteries wrapped in heat shrink. Who knows if they have any short circuit protection. Lion batteries catching fire, exploding if you will, is a pretty nasty issue.


There's 4 LEDs in the SSC P7 package, have a close look & you can see them all on the same die.
LiON batteries - you get the ever so slightly more "protected" ones which have safe guards in place against this so they dont blow up etc.
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Re: 900 Lumen Ebay lights

Postby damonik » Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:08 am

Jean wrote:
I gather that there is an Australian importer for these lights. I recall seeing their website recently. What the local guy does, I understand, is supply a reliable (?) charger that meets Australian standards. There might be other tweaks, I don't know. Whether you think a Australian standards charger is worth the $$ is an individual thing I suppose. Cheaper than a burned down house I guess.


I charge my batteries at work, muahahahha, I won't shed a tear if that building burns down!
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Re: 900 Lumen Ebay lights

Postby boren » Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:13 pm

rkelsen wrote:
boren wrote:Something seemed a little fishy to me here.

Interesting first post. Do you have an agenda?

FWIW, current isn't "driven," it's drawn... which is why your 500mA clock radio doesn't explode when plugged into a 10A powerpoint.

Everything will be fine as long as the voltages match. Note that operating the other way around, (i.e. battery capacity lower than current draw of the lights) would lead to the battery overheating and failing prematurely.


If you don't believe me: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/sho ... p?t=232163

I post about something I have years of experience with, though I tend of use 1mA on most of my leds since with modern superbrights that's bloody blinding enough in a test lab. What agenda would I have exactly? I simply looked at some data and saw a point of concern. People are strapping these things to their heads after all. Plus if in 6mo everyone's complaining they've become dim is that $80 or $200 well spent?

Let's correct your 2nd point. You drive the led with a set current, that's the terminology. Here's why. LEDs operate at a nominally constant voltage, the light output depends on the current through them. Typical junction voltages slightly above around 3v for a white led. _You_ then limit the current into them. Aka, you set them to be be driven with a set current. For low power devices you simply use a current limiting resistor, for fancier devices where wasting power is a concern you can do it by switching. If you want me to work an example using the Cree XPGWHT-L1...just ask, I'll PM you.

As for the batteries I googled the 18650 lion cells listed. They all seem to need at very least external discharge protection, and over charge protection, though the later can could be in the charger. Though I had a hard time proving they had internal short circuit protection from all vendors. They're a cell type meant to be incorporated within a larger pack that again has protection.
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Re: 900 Lumen Ebay lights

Postby rkelsen » Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:45 pm

boren wrote:What agenda would I have exactly?

I don't know. Your first post anywhere in these forums is a warning about cheap lights? Perhaps you work for Ayup...
boren wrote:For low power devices you simply use a current limiting resistor

And that's where your original argument falls down. You only mentioned the batteries and the LEDs, completely ignoring any circuitry between them... Something that an experienced person shouldn't have missed... unless they're pushing a wheelbarrow...
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Re: 900 Lumen Ebay lights

Postby r2160 » Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:14 am

boren wrote:So, let's take the little bit of info they give us. 4 lion batteries. That type is 2.2ah each, so basically 10ah for 4. 3 hours battery life, so 10/3 = 3amps. 3amps at ~ 3volts, around 10 watts. That's a lot of power! Are there multiple leds in each unit? From the roughly same calculations the Ayup's are running at ~350ma.


2.2ah by 4 cells is actually 8.8ah or 8800ma. The SSC will draw 2800ma at 4.2V.

Just remember Power (W) = volts x amps. 4.2V x 2.8ah = 11.76W.

The SSC will draw a constant 2800ma. This means the Maximum Battery life will be 4 hours. However, you should never take a Li-ion cell below 70% of its capacity, therefore you will have a maximum safe runtime of 168 minutes.

The SSC LED is a single LED developed by Seoul Semiconductor.
http://www.seoulsemicon.com/en/product/ ... rLEDp7.asp

Also, Li-ion cells have a venting structure built into the cell. This means that the chances of anything going bad with the cell are very remote as they can release pressure. It is the Li polymers that are significantly more dangerous as the polymer cells have no venting structure.

www.stensat.org/Docs/battery_test_results.pdf

cheers
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Re: 900 Lumen Ebay lights

Postby boren » Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:55 pm

rkelsen wrote:And that's where your original argument falls down. You only mentioned the batteries and the LEDs, completely ignoring any circuitry between them... Something that an experienced person shouldn't have missed... unless they're pushing a wheelbarrow...


Because it was an irrelevant detail and not required to clutter up the discussion.

Thanks for the details on the SSC part r2160. 2800mA is abs max on the spec sheet, and sadly there's very little life info any spec sheet I've looked at. Neither Cree nor SSC list any life info other than for Energy Star ratings, and those where derated significantly. <shrug>

I've had a lipo catch fire, they're fun.
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Re: 900 Lumen Ebay lights

Postby Marty Moose » Mon May 17, 2010 8:44 pm

Had the lights for a few weeks now (magicshine brand) compared them to a mates LBS ones they are the same. The magicshines have the patent number around the rim the nitelights don't other than that they are the same. My battery pack has a different mount to his but the battery itself is the same. The chargers look the same as well mine has a US type pin though :( easy fix but.I can't see any aus std indicator on either they look the same and both have a red LED for charging and a green one for fully charged. End of the day he is spewing $200 down, I could have bought two for that price and still have change.

MM
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Re: 900 Lumen Ebay lights

Postby giwi2 » Mon May 17, 2010 8:56 pm

Marty Moose wrote:Had the lights for a few weeks now (magicshine brand) compared them to a mates LBS ones they are the same. The magicshines have the patent number around the rim the nitelights don't other than that they are the same. My battery pack has a different mount to his but the battery itself is the same. The chargers look the same as well mine has a US type pin though :( easy fix but.I can't see any aus std indicator on either they look the same and both have a red LED for charging and a green one for fully charged. End of the day he is spewing $200 down, I could have bought two for that price and still have change.

MM


i have these same lights which I bought off a mate cos they interferred with his wireless bike comp (mine is wired). Got it for $60 and it had only been used 3 times!!! That said it is the non-australian version and i will need to get hold of an adaptor to make sure i can charge it safely. It also has the US plug. Not having dealt with this issue how is it an easy fix. Any pointers would be appreciated.

PS - these lights in the Austrlaian forn are reviewed in the latest Moutnain biking mag by BA and they discuss in their the differences and it does appear to be the charger and getting the product up to Austrlaian standards.

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Re: 900 Lumen Ebay lights

Postby Marty Moose » Mon May 17, 2010 9:25 pm

Get an adapter from Dick smith. Does it say what changes are made to the charger internally to make it AUS std's approved or is it just the plug type. Sounds like a con to me to justify the $$$$.

MM
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Re: 900 Lumen Ebay lights

Postby }SkOrPn--7 » Mon May 17, 2010 9:28 pm

giwi2 wrote:
Marty Moose wrote:Had the lights for a few weeks now (magicshine brand) compared them to a mates LBS ones they are the same. The magicshines have the patent number around the rim the nitelights don't other than that they are the same. My battery pack has a different mount to his but the battery itself is the same. The chargers look the same as well mine has a US type pin though :( easy fix but.I can't see any aus std indicator on either they look the same and both have a red LED for charging and a green one for fully charged. End of the day he is spewing $200 down, I could have bought two for that price and still have change.

MM


i have these same lights which I bought off a mate cos they interferred with his wireless bike comp (mine is wired). Got it for $60 and it had only been used 3 times!!! That said it is the non-australian version and i will need to get hold of an adaptor to make sure i can charge it safely. It also has the US plug. Not having dealt with this issue how is it an easy fix. Any pointers would be appreciated.

PS - these lights in the Austrlaian forn are reviewed in the latest Moutnain biking mag by BA and they discuss in their the differences and it does appear to be the charger and getting the product up to Austrlaian standards.

Greg


You need one of these............. http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.13296
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Re: 900 Lumen Ebay lights

Postby norbs » Tue May 18, 2010 10:01 am

Are those deal extreme ones much chop in the wet? They say shower proof which does worry me a bit.
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