New Garmin 800

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New Garmin 800

Postby cpical » Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:14 am

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by BNA » Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:52 am

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Re: New Garmin 800

Postby HAKS » Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:52 am

:lol: been waiting for this. Not sure about touch screen though.....especially with full finger gloves!

More details here: http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2010/08/garm ... -look.html
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Re: New Garmin 800

Postby Christine Tham » Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:26 am

Oh good.

Anyone interested in selling me their current Garmin? :twisted:
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Re: New Garmin 800

Postby DaveOZ » Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:29 am

Bastards!! I just bought a 500 last week and I'm a gadgetaholic.
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Re: New Garmin 800

Postby Cinder » Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:01 am

One of the guys at AusBike mentioned a replacement for the 500 early 2011, I assume this is not it...

Still looks very cool, and will be interested to hear how the screen goes with gloves...
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Re: New Garmin 800

Postby Aushiker » Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:05 am

Hi

Glad I didn't jump and go with an Edge 500 yet ... might be tempted to wait now.

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Re: New Garmin 800

Postby DaveOZ » Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:08 am

The screen looks very reflective. This is the problem with all colour screens in the sun, they are just too hard to see. Mono LCDs always win for visibility outdoors. I still think the 500 is the best option for cycling. Do you really need navigation maps on most bike rides?
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Re: New Garmin 800

Postby Aushiker » Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:12 am

HAKS wrote::lol: been waiting for this. Not sure about touch screen though.....especially with full finger gloves!


Hi

The question has been asked of Dc Rainmaker. Keep on eye on the comments or the blog as he pretty much always answers such questions. I did notice he stated as a con:

Unclear on touch screen long term use with gloves in winter


According to DC Rainmaker the unit ...

The Garmin Edge 800 will be available in mid-October with the following pricing:

Black/White Edge 800 is $449.99 (with AC adapter, quarter-turn Mount, USB cable)
Black/Blue Edge 800 Performance and Navigation bundle is $649.99 (Adds newer Premium Soft-strap Heart Rate Monitor, Speed/Cadence sensor and City Navigator Maps on MicroSD)
(US$)

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Re: New Garmin 800

Postby norbs » Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:25 am

I am not quite sure why people need Sat Nav on a pushbike? Unless you are riding in new areas all the time, I just don't see the point. And the touch screen in winter will be fun. I couldn't even change songs on my iPhone in winter with gloves on.

Hugs Edge 500.
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Re: New Garmin 800

Postby Aushiker » Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:27 am

DaveOZ wrote:Do you really need navigation maps on most bike rides?


Hi

I guess it depends on what your "most bike rides" are or if you find the extra functionality useful. For me personally maps are handy on tourers, on mountain bike rides, on rides in new areas locally and on rides in other states and countries, so I guess it comes down to what works for you.

Personally I find using my GPS much cheaper than my GPS on my iPhone when in Singapore so on that alone I could have saved most of the difference in price over the Edge 500 on my last ride there :oops:

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Re: New Garmin 800

Postby Robdog » Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:42 am

norbs wrote:And the touch screen in winter will be fun. I couldn't even change songs on my iPhone in winter with gloves on.

It depends on how the system works - the reason you can't operate your iPod touch/iPhone with gloves on it because it uses electrical conductivity from your body to determine where you touched, gloves get in the way but it allows the system to be MUCH more sensitive. If the Garmin uses pressure sensing then you'll be able to use it even if you're wearing a cinderblock (not that I'd recommend it of course)
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Re: New Garmin 800

Postby Chef » Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:02 am

Hi,

I was in Speedlight cycles (Guildford road, perth) yesterday and they had a new cycling GPS on display - not one I have heard of before, but looked similar to an Edge705 but had colour screen and came with maps (unlike the Garmin maps which you have to buy/pirate).

Cost was $500 which seems pretty good and unit looked very robust - no idea how well it works, and after owning a 705 I agree that mapping on a push bike is pretty redundent unless you are really going off the beaten track.

If you want to navigate any major city in the world using an Iphone or similar you can download good maps from the app store that require no live internet conection for less than $5 - much cheaper than any alternative

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Re: New Garmin 800

Postby sblack » Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:11 am

norbs wrote:I am not quite sure why people need Sat Nav on a pushbike?
Navigation could be handy for Touring and Audax riders and the adventurous types who like riding into unknown areas and may need the help to get home but it's true that for many cyclists it's not needed so for them the Edge 500 would still be the better choice.

norbs wrote:And the touch screen in winter will be fun. I couldn't even change songs on my iPhone in winter with gloves on.
The iphone isn't meant to work with gloves on, that's the trade off for multitouch and a generally more responsive capacitive touchscreen. You'd think with the application of the Edge 800 multitouch wouldn't be an issue so a good resisitive touch screen which will work just fine with gloves on would be used. Apart from gloved fingers being too big for the qwerty keyboard I have no issues using my Sony Ericsson Satio with winter gloves on.
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Re: New Garmin 800

Postby scotto » Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:38 pm

norbs wrote:I am not quite sure why people need Sat Nav on a pushbike? Unless you are riding in new areas all the time...

clearly not an M7 regular !!!!

i have been contemplating a 500 for fathers day, but now who knows !
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Re: New Garmin 800

Postby HAKS » Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:37 pm

had time to read the full article now and watch the glove video. Looks the goods even with large/heavy gloves on :)
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Re: New Garmin 800

Postby Aushiker » Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:28 pm

Hi

The glove video ...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsvL88NFCvs&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

Good spot Haks.

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Re: New Garmin 800

Postby HAKS » Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:30 pm

Cheers for posting it, was too lazy before to do it myself :P
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Re: New Garmin 800

Postby x8pg2qr » Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:53 pm

Is there any hardware in that device that is unique? I ask, because I wonder if all those fancy calculations and graphics could be done in software.

IMO, with GPS chips in Android, iPhones, ?Windows/Palm/Nokia phones, the days of single function devices could be numbered.

Car-based GPSes have dropped a lot in price in the last 5 years, and Garmin/Tom Tom may still earn $ from selling maps to these devices and 3rd party phones. But I can’t justify paying to keep maps updated on a bicycle GPS. And for devices that don’t have maps (e.g. Edge 500), could their entire function be replicated in a phone device with a GPS chip, colour screen and nifty software?
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Re: New Garmin 800

Postby HAKS » Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:30 pm

x8pg2qr wrote:Is there any hardware in that device that is unique? I ask, because I wonder if all those fancy calculations and graphics could be done in software.

IMO, with GPS chips in Android, iPhones, ?Windows/Palm/Nokia phones, the days of single function devices could be numbered.

Car-based GPSes have dropped a lot in price in the last 5 years, and Garmin/Tom Tom may still earn $ from selling maps to these devices and 3rd party phones. But I can’t justify paying to keep maps updated on a bicycle GPS. And for devices that don’t have maps (e.g. Edge 500), could their entire function be replicated in a phone device with a GPS chip, colour screen and nifty software?


Sure could, and already can i.e. Iphone with certain sports apps. It more comes down to what you want to strap to your handlebar and/or size. Personally I wouldn't want to strap an Iphone to my road bike. a) too big and b) easily damaged in a crash/mount failure. At least the Garmin cycling units are designed to take a bit of a betting.
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Re: New Garmin 800

Postby Aushiker » Sat Aug 28, 2010 10:47 am

HAKS wrote:Sure could, and already can i.e. Iphone with certain sports apps. It more comes down to what you want to strap to your handlebar and/or size. Personally I wouldn't want to strap an Iphone to my road bike. a) too big and b) easily damaged in a crash/mount failure. At least the Garmin cycling units are designed to take a bit of a betting.


Hi

+ 1 plus I would be concerned about my iPhone getting wet and of course battery life if I actually needed to use it as a phone.

It would be good but if the Edge 800 had Internet connectivity ...

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Re: New Garmin 800

Postby RobGrinter » Sat Aug 28, 2010 2:14 pm

Expected Delivery is late October or November. However it is often the case that these dates will blow out a bit, but I have been told it is a definete for arrival in time for Christmas.

Pricing is a bit unknown and may change from the indications below, but expect it to be around;

Edge 800 Bundle with new Premium heart rate strap, speed/Cadence $649

Edge 800 unit only $549

We will have it on our website soon for pre-order and will be taking small holding deposit for those that wish to secure the delivery from the first batch of units.

Cheers Rob

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Re: New Garmin 800

Postby Aushiker » Sat Aug 28, 2010 2:50 pm

RobGrinter wrote:Expected Delivery is late October or November. However it is often the case that these dates will blow out a bit, but I have been told it is a definete for arrival in time for Christmas.

Pricing is a bit unknown and may change from the indications below, but expect it to be around;

Edge 800 Bundle with new Premium heart rate strap, speed/Cadence $649


Hi Rob

Do you know if the bundle includes mapping as per the US bundles?

Thanks
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Re: New Garmin 800

Postby RobGrinter » Sat Aug 28, 2010 4:08 pm

The product has been announced in the USA only at the moment, so in some ways I was fairly lucky to get the information I got. But I will see if I can get the information about maps and get back to you. I would expect that like the 705, the 800 would have some kind of maps loaded. Perhaps not the whole of Australia, but something will be included. I also can advise that the Garmin Topo maps have been revamped and is now sold on a 4mb microSD with more detail, improvements to POI etc and also includes NZ maps on the same card.

We have the Edge 800 unit up on our website now as available for pre-order with a small deposit.
Deposit secures you delivery of a unit as soon as they arrive. Balance is due when they arrive and deposit is 100% fully refundable anytime if you change your mind, no questions asked. Delivery to Australia wide is free.


- Edge 800 Unit only $50 Deposit (expected to be $549)
http://www.highlytunedathletes.com.au/Garmin-Edge-800-HRM-speedcadence-Pre-Order_pBDF58823-55B4-4C8F-85B4-F2CC3ACF8E92.html


- Edge 800 Bundle version $60 Deposit (expected to be $649)
http://www.highlytunedathletes.com.au/Garmin-Edge-800-HRM-speedcadence-Pre-Order_pBDF58823-55B4-4C8F-85B4-F2CC3ACF8E92.html
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Re: New Garmin 800

Postby wombatK » Sat Aug 28, 2010 8:44 pm

x8pg2qr wrote:Is there any hardware in that device that is unique? I ask, because I wonder if all those fancy calculations and graphics could be done in software.

IMO, with GPS chips in Android, iPhones, ?Windows/Palm/Nokia phones, the days of single function devices could be numbered.

Car-based GPSes have dropped a lot in price in the last 5 years, and Garmin/Tom Tom may still earn $ from selling maps to these devices and 3rd party phones. But I can’t justify paying to keep maps updated on a bicycle GPS. And for devices that don’t have maps (e.g. Edge 500), could their entire function be replicated in a phone device with a GPS chip, colour screen and nifty software?

It's a good point on updating of the maps on a bicycle GPS. But there is a possible work-around : open-source maps. These are free, and can be updated by anyone with the necessary IT skills. There are some around for the Edge 705, which include auto-routing capability. I've tried to use them, but gave up when it looked to hard to work out if I could keep my Garmin/Whereis maps as well as the open source maps; suspect it would be easy if I didn't have the Garmin/Whereis maps.

Having spent the money on maps on my Edge 705 after being told it worked just like the Garmin car navigators, I was seriously dissappointed to discover how inferior it was. Just setting destinations and the like is quite awkward compared to most car navigators. But by far the worst feature is how exceedlingly slow the 705 is at routing and re-routing calculations. That might be a product of having a processor designed for low power draw (and long running on battery power) rather than high speed.

If so, the latter reason suggests we won't see single-function devices dropping out of the market. As an example of a successful single-function product, iPods have been incredibly successful in spite of the fact that quite a lot of mobile phones have similar mp3 etc.,. music players.

My last two nokia phones (6120 and E71) both have mp3 players and GPS units. The mp3 players are worthwhile (I'm the only one in my family without an iPod, and everyone else who has an iPod also has a phone with similar mp3 player capability). There's some synergy in having phone and music players coupled in a single device - as incoming phone calls/sms etc.,. can interrupt the music so you don't miss calls.

However, the GPS units are barely useful - screen size is one handicap, but the biggest is the life the GPS unit sucks out of the battery; only really useful if you have it plugged into a charger. The only synergy between GPS and phones that I can see is the use of live mobile speed camera tracking via the phone's internet connectivity; rev-heads might think it worthwhile the inconvenience of having a charger plugged into the phone for this. But it's not going to be much use on a bicycle.

I suspect the all-functions-in-one-device phone designers will be targetting the car-navigation GPS market, and that probably means fast rather than long-battery life GPS functionality with car-adapters supporting the battery drain.
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Re: New Garmin 800

Postby sblack » Sat Aug 28, 2010 9:03 pm

x8pg2qr wrote:Is there any hardware in that device that is unique? I ask, because I wonder if all those fancy calculations and graphics could be done in software.

IMO, with GPS chips in Android, iPhones, ?Windows/Palm/Nokia phones, the days of single function devices could be numbered.

Car-based GPSes have dropped a lot in price in the last 5 years, and Garmin/Tom Tom may still earn $ from selling maps to these devices and 3rd party phones. But I can’t justify paying to keep maps updated on a bicycle GPS. And for devices that don’t have maps (e.g. Edge 500), could their entire function be replicated in a phone device with a GPS chip, colour screen and nifty software?


As others have meantioned, the robustness of the product and it being waterproof are pretty big concerns for cycling use as well as battery life. Also the GPS chip in phones are not as good as the ones in proper GPS devices. You'll also need to consider how to mount and ability to add external devices such as cadence sensor, backup speed sensor, HRM and power meter. Finally if you're talking touchscreen phones then you may also need to consider whether or not you want it to work with gloves on.

So I guess it comes down to why you want to use a phone instead of a dedicated cycling computer. If it's to save money then you'll likely be better served getting a cheap cycle computer and not risk your phone by putting it on your handlebars. If you're after the best cycle computer experience then find the computer that most meets your needs, most likely a dedicated device will do it better than making a phone be a cycle computer. If it's because you like the idea of making it work or just because you can then by all means go and use the phone.

Or possibly a mixed solution may be the most appropriate. This is the approach I have taken. Since GPS navigation is a feature that I may find useful if I get lost or am trying to find something in an unfamiliar area then I believe my phone is suitable to pull out and use if that situation occurs while the Edge 500 nicely meets all my regular needs of a cycle computer, including basic navigation when riding an unfamiliar area using the course feature. If I was fortunate enough to be in the position of doing some decent touring then the 800 would be a much more attractive prospect though.
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