Video Camera who uses one?

open topic, for anything cycling related.

Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby GraemeL » Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:11 am

It's important to look at the cameras specs. There are some sellers out there that are selling cameras that are advertised as being HD but are only SD. So it pays to be careful when buying a camera.

HD (High Definition) is much more preferable to SD (Standard Definition). When using a HD camera videos are clearer and sharper than SD and when you are trying to capture number plates, the more detailed the better.

Things to look for are video format. High Definition will typically have a movie format such as .MOV, H.264 compression. Resolution will be something like 1080p = 1920—1080 pixels (16:9), 30 fps, 960p = 1280—960 pixels (4:3), 30 fps, 720p = 1280—720 pixels (16:9), 60 fps, 720p = 1280—720 pixels (16:9), 30 fps.
Standard Definition will typically have a video format that is either AVI, or MJPEG. The Resolution is something like, 640 x 480 or 720 x 480 and some maybe up scaled from 640 x 480 to 1280x960.

Try to avoid cameras that use M-Jpeg video format.

Motion Jpeg is one of the oldest video formats, unlike MPEG or H.264 formats, M-JPEG takes a very different approach to video compression. Instead of compressing the entire video as a whole, each frame is compressed as an independent JPEG image, and strung together to make a video sequence.
The downside of Motion JPEG is, video playback can also be quite jerky and it does not use any compression, because they are already Jpeg images, so the resulting video files can be quite large. A H.264 encoder can, reduce the size of a video file by more than 80%, compared with the Motion JPEG format and as much as 50% more than MPEG-4, without any loss of image quality. JPEG also has a problem with sharp edges which is unavoidable, partly because the standard was meant to compress natural images like scanned photographs.


------------------------------------

Lens Viewing Angle

Some cheap cameras will have a viewing angle of approx 70º, this is pretty narrow. While others such as the GoPro have a viewing angle of 170º ultra wide angle in 720p and 127º wide angle in 1080p.
The advantage of wide angle is that it allows for a lot more action to be captured on camera. Depending on what you use the camera for, 70º maybe to narrow, while a viewing angle of 170º tends to give a Fish Eye affect and some people don't like this, but it captures the most action. 127º is the probably the best all round viewing angle.

Another thing to keep in mind, is the narrower the field of view, the harder it is to line the camera up properly. The cheaper cameras do not have a built in screen, so it can take a few tries before you find the correct recording position. The mid to high end cameras usually come with either a screen or laser, this makes lining up a lot easier. If the camera has a viewing angle of 170º all you need to do is face the camera forward and chances are it will be capturing what you want. Although after viewing the footage you may need to alter your mount to get it cantered properly.

Here is an animation I made to show you the different viewing angles.

Image

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by BNA » Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:55 am

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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby GraemeL » Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:55 am

trailgumby wrote:@graemeL: Like your chest mount - very clever :D

The only mod I'd suggest is to round the corners to at least 25mm diameter quarter-circles. Four or so weeks ago I went over the front of the bike on a section of techy mountain bike trail and landed on the GoPro, cracking a rib.

What those sharp corners would do to you with your full bodyweight landing on them from handlebar height is not a nice thought :oops:


Thanks and you are right about the corners, it was a rush job. I just wanted to show that the plastic base could be used to make the mount, If someone was to take the time to do it properly, they would have a very nice mount for the fraction of the price.
If I was going to make one to use myself, I would have the corners nicely rounded and have some thin rubber wrapped over them. I would also incorporate some elastic in the straps on the shoulders and on the side straps. This would help to make it comfortable and allow for body movements.

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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby GraemeL » Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:28 am

abas wrote:I've tried three different ones so far and found that the $14 MD80 type you can find on Ebay are the best quality but not the most reliable and not waterproof. I then "moved up" to a Swann Sports cam which was fine but too poor a resolution to get rego numbers unless they were directly in front. The Kaiser Baas sportscam was my latest and this is absolute rubbish. Even with a Class 10 memory card in it it constantly stutters, the handlebar mount locks tight to the handlebars but the camera still wobbles around on its attachment and the quality of the footage is so grainy you can't make out much at all, in particular in the low light of early morning or even early evening. Even during fine daylight hours the overall video quality is extremely grainy. Was going to take it back but can't find the receipt.

May have to save up my pennies for a GoPro or Contour but no-one seems to review them for lowlight capability. Anyone got examples of this?


If you want a cheap camera get yourself a Jumbo 808 #11, I have 4 of these and they are an excellent camera for cycling, because they are small they are really easy to mount in a lot of different positions on the bike. I have mine mounted on the front wheel and rear wheel quick release. You can buy a handle bar mount for them for about $10, the mounts works very well and holds the camera nice and tight.

It looks like a remote for your car and costs approx $40. It is HD (High Definition) 720P high Definition Video 1280 x 720 H.264 30fps.mov. 5.0 Mega pixels Photo JPEG format: 2592 x1944.jpg.

Image

Battery time is approx 1.5 hrs, but if you want to record longer you can get an external battery pack for it, this will allow a recording time of approx 4hrs.

Image

It is not water proof but if you check out my DIY mounts section >>>Mounting FAQ’s - DIY and Third Party Mounts>>> you will find a few different types of cases for it. You will also find some easy to make mounts that are nice and stable.

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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby GraemeL » Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:53 am

RonK wrote:Not sure if this cam has been posted previously, but when I was looking for a retailer to order a GoPro Wi Fi Back and Remote, I stumbled across the interesting looking cam which already does wifi streaming and is competitively priced with the Hero 2.

It's the Ion Air Pro Wi Fi, Here's a review.
Image


It does look good on paper and seems to have everything, but I would be waiting for it to be reviewed a lot more.

Everyone's needs are different, but for me, If I wanted a camera solely for cycling I would be looking for something cheaper, I have the GoPro but use the jumbo's on the bikes, because they are cheap and small. If something happens and I lose one or damage it, it's not a big deal, they have no problems capturing plates.
I use the GoPro in the car when driving and have it mounted to the bottom of the rear view mirror and I use it as a family video recorder.

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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby trailgumby » Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:55 am

The Contour GPS was good in low light I thought, albeit a little grainy, on the low light setting. Number plates were mostly distinguishable unless moving your head through large arcs. The Swann Freestyke HD 1080P that I have in front of me isn't quite to the same standard but still quite reasonable. GoPro probably not so good, but this is subjective and based on my dodgy memory.

I had planned to do a back-to-back GoPro/Freestyle low light test with both cams going simultaneously, but not planning very well and pressing the wrong button on the Freestyle stuffed that idea. Would have caught an epic abusive moron motorist close-passing me Thursday at Taronga Zoo with reportable footage. :(
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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby GraemeL » Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:31 pm

Most of these cameras will not do well in low light, they are designed as sports cameras and as such will function really well in bright light but will fail in low light.

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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby KonaCommuter » Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:00 pm

Just wanted to say a HUGE thanks Graeme for all your hard work in this thread
Last edited by KonaCommuter on Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby newbikeorupgrade » Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:16 pm

Graeme has done a great job!

I just hope in future go pro get much better and bigger sensors number plate recognition program and night vision would also be great! just asking...
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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby CommuRider » Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:24 pm

Googles glasses looks to be the next evolution.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/technol ... 213l4.html

Image

At $500 it will give GoPro a run for its money.
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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby KonaCommuter » Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:28 pm

CommuRider wrote:Googles glasses looks to be the next evolution.


At $500 it will give GoPro a run for its money.




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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby CommuRider » Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:31 pm

?
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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby AUbicycles » Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:36 pm

On the ion, I am organising a review for BNA and will involve trailgumby who (as you can guess) is pretty fluent with bike cameras.
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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby KonaCommuter » Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:44 pm

CommuRider wrote:?



That’s me being a smart alec


It’s Japanese meaning “different” or as I understand it “I disagree”.



I’ve used glasses with inbuilt camera’s.


Here’s a sample from my YouTube channel (apologies for music selection but .... meh, I like it)


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZA016p5iqUU&feature=plcp[/youtube]


Video camera’s mounted in glasses can’t compete with GoPro or Contour because these two camera’s have superior mounting options. For sure there is a place for glasses with video camera. If mine didn’t die I’d still roll with them.


Again, apologies for being an idiot in my previous reply. When I disagree with someone I say “chigau” much to my wife’s annoyance and my friend whom is Japanese, amusement (probably because I’m saying it wrong as well as pronouncing it wrong)
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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby AUbicycles » Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:59 am

If you watch the Google Glass presentation, I notice that some of the sky divers were GoPro sponsored and one of them had one on a chest mount.
I was wondering if they were using other camera (in addition?) for the live streaming.

Have to do some more reading on the google solution to see what the headup display does. For a cyclist it could be a rear view mirror (i.e. seperate rear view camera streaming to headup display - as a glass mounted camera wouldn't see past a helmet (let alone helmet hair).

An exciting option if it was affordable.
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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby GraemeL » Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:59 am

KonaCommuter wrote:Just wanted to say a HUGE thanks Graeme for all your hard work in this thread


Thank you :)
I enjoy researching the different cameras and I really enjoy helping others with their questions.

newbikeorupgrade wrote:Graeme has done a great job!

I just hope in future go pro get much better and bigger sensors number plate recognition program and night vision would also be great! just asking...


I would think the cameras like the GoPro, Contour etc will evolve over the next couple of years, there are a lot more manufacturers bringing out action cameras and they will need to have cutting edge designs to stay ahead of the pack.

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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby GraemeL » Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:17 am

AUbicycles wrote:If you watch the Google Glass presentation, I notice that some of the sky divers were GoPro sponsored and one of them had one on a chest mount.
I was wondering if they were using other camera (in addition?) for the live streaming.

Have to do some more reading on the google solution to see what the headup display does. For a cyclist it could be a rear view mirror (i.e. seperate rear view camera streaming to headup display - as a glass mounted camera wouldn't see past a helmet (let alone helmet hair).

An exciting option if it was affordable.


One guy also had a GoPro on his helmet, I was also wondering how much of the footage was from the glasses and if any GoPro footage was included.

The biggest problem I can see using a glasses camera is, the head is not always straight up and looking forward. It would be good if the Google glasses had an adjustable lens so one could raise or lower the lens depending on what they are doing.

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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby GraemeL » Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:27 am

Here is some information I have come across for the Ion Air Pro WiFi v's the GoPro 2.

Looking at the specifications of the Ion, it has the same size sensor as the original GoPro - 1/2.5" HD CMOS, the GoPro 2 has a slightly bigger sensor - 1 /2.3” CMOS.

The Ion's light sensitivity is 1.4 V/lux-sec, this is the same as the Original GoPro. The GoPro 2 is .84 V/lux-secs, the GoPro 2 performs better in low light.

Battery life for the Ion is equal to the GoPro which is approx 2.5 hours, you can however purchase a battery booster for the Ion which is a 1800mAmp battery the battery booster allows camera unit to charge twice without the need for an external power source to provide over 7 hours of battery life. It seems to be an external battery though and is not built into the camera

You can also purchase the Battery Backpac for the GoPro that will increase recording time to approx 5 hours, it also includes not only the battery but also a Skeleton Door and Water Proof door.

It seems that the Ion may suffer from Chromatic Aberration, colored fringing around objects in bright light, usually purple, red or blue. The audio is also reported to be worse with wind noise, to the point that audio is not usable. But most of these cameras suffer in the audio department.

What I did find out was that the mounts are supposedly very good and easy to use, apparently it is easier and quicker to attach than the GoPro.

By all accounts, the build quality is on par with the GoPro, but unlike the GoPro it does not need or have a housing and will handle a lot of punishment.

And of course there is the WiFi which when used with a smart phone or tablet lets you see what you are shooting. The GoPro 2 is purely guess work unless you purchase the WiFi Backpac.

The memory used on the Ion is Micro SD, the cards may be cheaper to buy than the SDHC the GoPro uses.

The size of the Ion would suit a lot of people, the GoPro 2 can be quite bulky looking and when you add the BackPacs it get bulkier. The Ion weighs a little less than the GoPro.

I am looking forward to Trailgumby's hands on review, it will be interesting to see how much of the above applies to the Ion. It may well prove to be up there with the high end cameras.

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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby Mulger bill » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:00 pm

KonaCommuter wrote:Here’s a sample from my YouTube channel (apologies for music selection but .... meh, I like it)

Music wasn't that bad, who was?

Now. IIRC, you said at one stage you didn't mind your riding being critiqued...
Sit waaaaaaaaaaaaaay over to the left like that and you give the clowns room to treat you with disdain. Seeing as we are not fitted with indicators, it has worked well for me to use my position to give the sentient smokeboxers an idea of my intention. The rest of them have to be allowed for of course but by taking an assertive position on entry, you prevent them acting on their ignorance.
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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby KonaCommuter » Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:03 pm

Mulger bill wrote:
KonaCommuter wrote:Here’s a sample from my YouTube channel (apologies for music selection but .... meh, I like it)

Music wasn't that bad, who was?

Now. IIRC, you said at one stage you didn't mind your riding being critiqued...
Sit waaaaaaaaaaaaaay over to the left like that and you give the clowns room to treat you with disdain. Seeing as we are not fitted with indicators, it has worked well for me to use my position to give the sentient smokeboxers an idea of my intention. The rest of them have to be allowed for of course but by taking an assertive position on entry, you prevent them acting on their ignorance.



It’s “I was born to Cry” by Johnny Thunders. It’s on a compilation CD I’ve had for donkeys ages. The Video was from early January this year and thanks to the advice I received on BNA I have since improved my roadcraft at this RAB which I ride through every day on my commute. I now “take the lane” before coming up to it.

The video was taken using a pinhole camera in my glasses which are good but with limitations. The camera is in the middle of the frames (just above your nose) but the angle isn’t quite what you see with your eyes. Unfortunately the glasses died and at roughly $150 I’m not sure if I’ll replace them.
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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby ozdavo » Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:56 am

Is this the "correct" Jumbo to get? (ie are some better than others?, are some genuine 720P & other interpolated?)

evilbay link
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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby Pushy » Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:16 am

Just bought 2 x 32gb class 10 micro sdhc cards with sd adaptors for $29 shipped.
Seems like a good price.
Read the terms and conditions, to see if it suits you.

Here's the deal it expires in 3.5 days
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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby Pushy » Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:31 am

ozdavo wrote:Is this the "correct" Jumbo to get? (ie are some better than others?, are some genuine 720P & other interpolated?)

ebay link

This seller is reputed to be a seller of the real 808 cameras
See these threads
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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby ozdavo » Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:26 pm

Pushy wrote:
ozdavo wrote:Is this the "correct" Jumbo to get? (ie are some better than others?, are some genuine 720P & other interpolated?)

ebay link

This seller is reputed to be a seller of the real 808 cameras
See these threads


Thanks Pushy, that RCGroups forum has some great info...

Seems there are 720P #11's with 120 deg lens, and new key chain style that do 1080P@30fps or 720P@60fps but with only the std 67 deg lens (120 deg lens expected later in the year)... so decisions, decisions...

720P@60fps with 120 deg lens for $50 would be ideal imo (but what do I know... I'm very much a noob on cameras)
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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby GraemeL » Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:46 am

ozdavo wrote:Thanks Pushy, that RCGroups forum has some great info...

Seems there are 720P #11's with 120 deg lens, and new key chain style that do 1080P@30fps or 720P@60fps but with only the std 67 deg lens (120 deg lens expected later in the year)... so decisions, decisions...

720P@60fps with 120 deg lens for $50 would be ideal imo (but what do I know... I'm very much a noob on cameras)


I posted a pic of the Jumbo at the top of this page, there is also an animation that shows the different lens angles.

From what I have read, the new 1080P does not last as long as the 720P model, Mine lasts 1.5 hours and the 1080P only lasts 1 hour.

If you want the 720P grab it from here,
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/720P-Camcord ... 062wt_1320

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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby GraemeL » Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:05 am

Some might remember the Hindsight camera that was posted quite awhile ago. For those that don't know of it, it is a safety camera, it has a lens that mounts on the rear of your bike and a video screen that is mounted on the bars. It acts as a rear view mirror. It records video in 5 minute loops and in the event of an accident it will stop and save the recording.

It has been in development for quite awhile, but is now available for purchase.

Image

Some of the features...

Video Recording
The systems records video in a continuous 5-minute loop, stopping automatically if the bike is laid over.

Lithium-Ion Battery
Rechargeable internal battery offers over 5 hours of run-time (*set at highest-resolution)

3.5" Transflective LCD Screen
The 3.5-inch transflective color screen presents crystal clear, real-time rear views and is readable in bright conditions. Not for use with polarized sunglasses.

Modules
Downloadable upgrades will be available for Hindsight 35 so you will always be on top of the latest technology.

Cyclometer
Includes speed, max speed, average speed, trip distance, odometer, stopwatch, and time. Heart-rate and cadence are optional accessories.

A short review as well as video footage http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2012/06/week ... ewing.html

Another review http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2012/06/week ... ewing.html

Main website http://www.cerevellum.com/default.aspx

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