Video Camera who uses one?

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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby Aushiker » Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:48 pm

AUbicycles wrote:The Fly6 front page does state "5+ hrs record time" and I would be interested to know what which card is required to achieve this.


I got close with a Kingston 32GB Class 10 card which when I tested it, recorded for 4.75 hours.

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by BNA » Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:54 pm

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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby OldBloke » Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:54 pm

Could it be that the smaller cards are having to 'write over' used memory and hence less battery time? It would be interesting to see if the larger memory cards continue to get 5hrs once they have been in use for a while.

Just speculating.

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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby warthog1 » Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:21 pm

Has anyone used the ion air pro 3? Any good?

http://www.cnet.com/au/products/ion-air-pro-3/
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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby AUbicycles » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:34 pm

OldBloke wrote:Could it be that the smaller cards are having to 'write over' used memory and hence less battery time? It would be interesting to see if the larger memory cards continue to get 5hrs once they have been in use for a while.


A good thought however I wondering if it has to do with the camere not wanted to record over files created in the same session. I havn't had issues with the Fly6 camera recording over older data.

Although my test with the 8GB card was only 6.88GB and the card was freshly formatted so there was easily space for another 800mb - considering the Sony camera was toppig about at 7.7GB.
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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby RonK » Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:26 pm

AUbicycles wrote:Please do! The Garmin is also a sealed unit so also interesting to know how that performs in the cold.

Sony Sports Cam has arrived, and I picked up a Sandisk Ultra 32gb mini SD card from Officeworks on the way home.

Out of the box it's impressively small considering it has WiFi and Ant+ built in, and doesn't need a waterproof housing. It's about half the size of my GoPro HD Hero2 with the WiFi back mounted and loaded in the housing.

I'm not sure what the value of the Ant+ is though - it will pair with my Magellan Cyclo Speed/Cadence and HR sensors and store the data on the SD card in CSV files. Can't see the point. Maybe if you don't have a bike computer (but do have a set of Ant+ sensors lying around).

Piece of cake to download the app from iTunes and sync phone with the camera. Nothing like the battle it was to set up the GoPro, WiFi back and remote.

WiFi will stream video to the phone but not while recording - I can't remember if the GoPro can do both simultaneously. It can also play and delete recorded video files, start/stop recording, and adjust various settings such as sensitivity, lens angle and resolution/frame rate. There's also a switchable setting for auto image rotation.

First task though is to update the firmware. That is a piece of cake too - just copy the update file onto the SD card and power on the camera. 15 seconds and it's done.

First ride won't be until Saturday, when it's expected to be cold in Brisbane so maybe an opportunity find out if fogging will be an issue.
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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby AUbicycles » Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:22 pm

Before you ride, give the camera a few test runs to see the run time and make sure it is all working nicely.

Good news that the setup is so smooth - as a bike specific camera, perhaps they are able to elimate the unnecesssary steps that a general sports action camera required. I agree that pairing was also a big issue - every single camera I have paired with a smart phone has been a challenge - the Sony was probably the best of the bunch.
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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby Aushiker » Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:47 pm

RonK wrote:
AUbicycles wrote:Please do! The Garmin is also a sealed unit so also interesting to know how that performs in the cold.

Sony Sports Cam has arrived, and I picked up a Sandisk Ultra 32gb mini SD card from Officeworks on the way home.


Do you mean Shimano CM-1000 Sports Cam?

BTW I would have assumed the ANT+ is overlay the data on the video ...

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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby Steve_F » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:34 am

AUbicycles wrote:A good thought however I wondering if it has to do with the camere not wanted to record over files created in the same session. I havn't had issues with the Fly6 camera recording over older data.


My understanding is that it should have no problem overwriting any data, including data from the same session. That is the purpose of the incident protection, to ensure that doesn't happen if there is an incident.

Perhaps it's worth getting in touch with Fly6 support and see what they have to say.

I do find your results interesting. I wouldn't have thought that the card could make that much difference. Have you run repeat tests with the cards and got consistent results? I wonder if something else is at play here.

Fly6 have got back to me on my issue (on only being able to record 2.5 hours of data before recording stops) and they believe that the battery for my unit is out of spec and they are going to replace the unit. Good work Fly6!!
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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby cancan64 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:08 am

RonK wrote:First ride won't be until Saturday, when it's expected to be cold in Brisbane so maybe an opportunity find out if fogging will be an issue.


I have a Sony sports cam and have not had any fogging issues yet and used mine in Brisbane last Saturday morning plus my weekly rides out west are mostly below zero...my issue with the camera is it keeps switching off when the roads get bumpy...which is 90% of the time...about to get hold of Sony and follow up my missing fly6 camera again...I don't think I am meant to have cameras
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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby Fly6 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:08 am

Thanks for the test results - very interesting indeed.

As an update based on dealing with a few issues like this, we have found that formatting the microSD card is often necessary from time to time to get the best results. It might be worth adding this to your test results (adding test results for 'after formatting the card')? In addition, we have found that a 'quick format' and a 'full format' yield different results with the latter almost always sorting out any funky things with your Fly6 or the recorded footage. We think that sometimes the card has a bad read or a bad sector out of the factory that can cause all sorts of weird results. We have instigated a 'full format' of the cards before they get shipped as a way of addressing this for future production runs.

I do want to say that your Fly6 should give you 5+ hours out of the box and if it doesn't then it is possible you have a faulty battery (or after reading this test, a dodgy microSD card potentially requiring a full reformat). We are using the same battery as our prototypes as they gave us great results. Don't forget - we are cyclists and we want to use Fly6 as well! We selected Strontium as we found them to get better results than the Sandisk & Kingston cards we tested with the prototypes. Strontium cards are around 25% more expensive - we picked them because we thought they would be better for the customer. We are looking to change the brand of card now as we have changed some technical aspects of the software that provides a better 'write' to the card - this means that the Sandisk & Kingston cards now perform just as well.

Addressing the wording "5+ hours runtime" - the camera & default light setting should give you 5+ hours of runtime...it is not a play on words but what we have designed it to do! Except for when Fly6 goes into around 5% power left the camera is always on so 'runtime' really does mean 'record time'. We use the word 'runtime' because we don't want people thinking they will get 5 hours of recorded footage on the supplied 8GB microSD card.

Phew...hope that helps address some of the discussion points above!

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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby RonK » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:12 am

Aushiker wrote:
RonK wrote:
AUbicycles wrote:Please do! The Garmin is also a sealed unit so also interesting to know how that performs in the cold.

Sony Sports Cam has arrived, and I picked up a Sandisk Ultra 32gb mini SD card from Officeworks on the way home.


Do you mean Shimano CM-1000 Sports Cam?

BTW I would have assumed the ANT+ is overlay the data on the video ...

Yes, it's the CM-1000.

The documentation is typically sparse as with most devices these days, but I read somewhere that the data is stored in CSV files. However the Shimano product release does say that it uses ANT+ to show performance data in its captured videos. I will know when I try it.

EDIT: This question is answered in the CyclingTips article linked below.
Last edited by RonK on Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby warthog1 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:35 pm

Looks nice and small
http://cyclingtips.com.au/2014/07/shimano-sport-camera-review/

Is the 2hr 10 recording time able to be improved on if you run lower resolution?
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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby Matthewb » Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:42 pm

It may be the youtube compression, but image quality of the shimano still seems slightly worse than the $70ish, 40gram mobius actioncam. Also, I'm wondering why class 10 cards are being recommended when the mobius works fine at 1080p with the cheaper class 4 cards (and with better image quality).

Obvious downsides of mobius are lack of waterproofing and lack of battery life (a bit over an hr), but for my purposes (recording who is trying to murder me on short commutes) it works pretty well. Incidentally, I managed to squeeze mine into an Eclipse mint tin, might turn that into a rear bike mount so I can get it off my helmet!
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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby RonK » Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:48 pm

warthog1 wrote:Looks nice and small
http://cyclingtips.com.au/2014/07/shimano-sport-camera-review/

Is the 2hr 10 recording time able to be improved on if you run lower resolution?


Shimano Sports Cam battery performance chart.
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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby outnabike » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:12 pm

Matthewb wrote:It may be the youtube compression, but image quality of the shimano still seems slightly worse than the $70ish, 40gram mobius actioncam. Also, I'm wondering why class 10 cards are being recommended when the mobius works fine at 1080p with the cheaper class 4 cards (and with better image quality).

Obvious downsides of mobius are lack of waterproofing and lack of battery life (a bit over an hr), but for my purposes (recording who is trying to murder me on short commutes) it works pretty well. Incidentally, I managed to squeeze mine into an Eclipse mint tin, might turn that into a rear bike mount so I can get it off my helmet!


I also think the Shimano sample is bad, But I reckon it is the U tube or download system used. If I load something into different editing packages I get totally different results. My Sony makes very good video yet I have seen some very of putting stuff off Sony cams them on U tube.
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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby RonK » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:27 pm

Matthewb wrote:Also, I'm wondering why class 10 cards are being recommended when the mobius works fine at 1080p with the cheaper class 4 cards (and with better image quality).

Is the Mobius capable of writing at these resolutions and frame rates to a class 4 card?

- “Full HD”: 1920 x 1080 pixels at 30 frames per second (fps)
- “HD 120fps”: 1280 x 720 pixels at 120 fps (slow-mo)
- “WVGA 240fps”: 640 x 360 pixels at 240 fps (super slow-mo)
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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby warthog1 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:32 pm

RonK wrote:
warthog1 wrote:Looks nice and small
http://cyclingtips.com.au/2014/07/shimano-sport-camera-review/

Is the 2hr 10 recording time able to be improved on if you run lower resolution?


Shimano Sports Cam battery performance chart.


I have no experience with video cameras. I'd have hoped for longer. Is that similar to the other cameras available?
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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby RonK » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:36 pm

warthog1 wrote:
RonK wrote:
warthog1 wrote:Looks nice and small
http://cyclingtips.com.au/2014/07/shimano-sport-camera-review/

Is the 2hr 10 recording time able to be improved on if you run lower resolution?


Shimano Sports Cam battery performance chart.


I have no experience with video cameras. I'd have hoped for longer. Is that similar to the other cameras available?

About the same as my GoPro Hero2
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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby warthog1 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:57 pm

Thanks. I had a bit of a look after posting the question and they all seemed around 2ish hours.
Makes the fly 6 look very good. I'll start with one of those if I get a camera.
For a forward facing camera that Shimano looks the goods in my uninformed opinion though Ron.
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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby ray » Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:51 pm

Aushiker wrote:
AUbicycles wrote:The Fly6 front page does state "5+ hrs record time" and I would be interested to know what which card is required to achieve this.


I got close with a Kingston 32GB Class 10 card which when I tested it, recorded for 4.75 hours.

Andrew


I have just tested my Fly6 twice after reading problems with recording times of only 2 or so hours. In both cases I left it on the bike just recording and in both cases got around 5 hours and 45 minutes (23 x 800MB + 1 small file around 32MB - less than a minute). I have a few 16GB/32GB Class 10 cards lying around that I use for my Contour Roam (and rarely the Countour 2+). I used a Patriot MicroSDHC Class 10 32GB card and did a full format on it before testing it. I ran a benchmark using CrystalDiskMark on both the Strontium 8GB card that came with the camera and the Patriot. Strontium was faster. The patriot met the Class 10 minimum 10MB/s Seq write ok (11.8MB/s). Strontium (13.63MB/s).

Test 1. Left running overnight around 8:30PM. Checked this morning and was worried because after about 2.5 hours all the footage was black. I think I must have turned the light off during the night without realizing it :oops:

Test 2. After leaving it to recharge during the morning I retested it this afternoon. 5 hours 45 minutes again. This time with visible footage to the end :)

I probably should have tested it first without doing a full format but will see overtime if it has a bearing on recording time. I do have a few more cards in various devices I could test (e.g. 16GB A-DATA Class 10, 32GB Lexar Class 10, 16GB Amazon Class 10 - actually one of the fastest card of the lot) but I suspect many of you will likely have Sandisk or Kingston cards so will be of no value. I do have a Sandisk 16GB but is only Class 2 (runs at Class 6 and falling short of Class 10). I am actually picking up a 64GB card for the camera soon and will likely get a Samsung Pro 32GB (90GB read/min 50MB write) or Lexar 666x (95MB read/min 47MB write) 32GB card as a spare that I will test with the Fly 6 as well.

In the meantime I look forward to using the camera on the bike on the weekend. Might have to do some MacGyver work to get the camera lower to fit past the seat collar as I don't have much seat post so the saddle bag may have to go.

update: forgot to add, as recommended any Class 10 card should be sufficient to meet the minimum requirements for the purpose of recording on the Fly 6 (i.e. more expensive and faster isn't necessarily better).

:)
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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby Steve_F » Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:09 pm

ray wrote:I am actually picking up a 64GB card for the camera soon and will likely get a Samsung Pro 32GB (90GB read/min 50MB write) or Lexar 666x (95MB read/min 47MB write) 32GB card as a spare that I will test with the Fly 6 as well.


I'm not entirely sure if you meant the Fly6 here, but I thought I'd point out that the Fly6 doesn't support 64GB cards. I put a 64GB card in my Fly6 and I wasn't able to record to it at all.
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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby ray » Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:42 pm

Thanks Steve. Good point. Yes I meant digital camera for the 64GB and not the Fly 6.


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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby Oxford » Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:11 am

After reading the above Fly6 commentaries I decided to run a bench test myself overnight. Basically I just wanted to test the battery running time and how much my newly fully formatted 32Gb Class 10 Dick Smith card would hold. I ran the light on spinning light mode only as I wanted to extend battery life for the test. Basically I got 5:45 running time and the card was only 2/3 used. I will fully charge the light again and see how it runs when having to over write files.

So far, I am more than happy with that result.
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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby jasonc » Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:20 pm

I got 5+ hours out of my fly6 this morning
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Re: Video Camera who uses one?

Postby Oxford » Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:24 pm

Yep set mine again at midday, still flashing nearly 6:30 later, though I was told it made a noise which suggests it has gone into limp mode. So probably no recording, but still operating. When it dies I'll check the files and see what the recording time was.
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