Ah Warney, stick to spin bowling mate.

open topic, for anything cycling related.

Re: Ah Warney, stick to spin bowling mate.

Postby martinjs » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:47 pm

"I couldn’t get through as easily as usual because a grey Mercedes Coupe in the centre lane was very close to the left turning traffic and allowed almost no space for cyclists to pass through," the cyclist wrote.

"As the traffic was stationary I unclipped my right foot and squeezed through the small gap.

This was from the cyclist account, he didn't mention anyone moving in front of him. In fact he said traffic was stationary, and also said, if you read above.
allowed almost no space for cyclists to pass through


Based on that, I'd say he was pushing it for the sake of one car length. Same thing we complain motorist doing, hurrying when there’s no need.

Go figure.

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Last edited by martinjs on Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by BNA » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:10 pm

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Re: Ah Warney, stick to spin bowling mate.

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:10 pm

trailgumby wrote:It would be nice though if some of this could be a bit more visible, like an "action I've taken" subforum under an Advocacy section.
...
...
Worth a separate thread to talk about the idea?


[/quote]
I would worry that such a forum will just serve to give greater rein to overly aggressive self-important and self righteous cyclists preaching their own little tough-guy incidences of which there are too many and which probably do more to sour relations with the rest of the community than anything else. It would just become a competition. I'd love this to be unfair comment but I fear not.

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Re: Ah Warney, stick to spin bowling mate.

Postby CommuRider » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:38 pm

trailgumby wrote:
CommuRider wrote:Anyhoo, a lot of peeps here do different things from Womble's donations of bikes to flood victims to Aushiker's submissions to governments...quite a lively and creative online community as a result.

+1 :D

It would be nice though if some of this could be a bit more visible, like an "action I've taken" subforum under an Advocacy section.

The purpose is to serve as an encouragement for others to take action, provide examples of good templates to use when writing (noting that personalising and using your own words to express the ideas is required for success), and to report on responses and progress...Thoughts, anyone?

Worth a separate thread to talk about the idea?


Happy to support an Advocacy section and I think we have the bones of it with eg Oxford's cycling accident pro-forma template.

I'd like to think the letters I have read in the SMH over the past few days came from BNA members. Can I just point out that perhaps some people are not as out there with what they do with regards to cycling advocacy locally or within the community. Most of us here have day jobs and I think it is balancing the pursuit of cycling safety initiatives and at the same time not jeopardising whatever contractual commitment we have with said employer just in case we bring our employers into disrepute especially if said employer isn't pro-cycling. Lucky I have a pretty open minded employer that supports cycling to work but not sure if said employer will want me to be as visible as I would like to be.

As for policy/legislative changes, if a BNA member here is attached as a policy adviser to a minister such as Duncan Gay (hahahahah) Minister of Transport here in NSW, therre may be better approaches to tweak changes to the law with insider knowledge. However, unless one of us becomes an elected member to parliament, joins the cabinet of the ruling party, hard to change the law. Then again, we have the 4WD party but unless someone here wants to devote full-time to becoming a pro-cycling politician heading a pro-cycling party, then meaningful legislative changes will take longer through this negotiated process that we call the Westminster system.
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Re: Ah Warney, stick to spin bowling mate.

Postby GregW » Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:24 pm

Aushiker wrote:
trailgumby wrote:It would be nice though if some of this could be a bit more visible, like an "action I've taken" subforum under an Advocacy section.


I have posted some details in the Cycling Safety section and in the WA sub-forum as has RolandP who does heaps more than me through BTAWA. Generally there is little to no response from forum members and zilch from the so called advocacy groups (other than BTAWA) which I find in particular disappointing; they could at least support/work with BTAWA and Rolandp. I would have thought the advocacy groups would be a lot more encouraging for starters.

Personally I am pretty much at the point where more and more of what I do is not shared here and I am now questioning whether it is worth even bothering to flag bike plans and the like given the lack of reaction compared to say this instance.

Happy to be convinced otherwise but the evidence is not there from what I have seen.

Regards
Andrew


The trouble with any advocacy groups I see here is they are not big enough or powerfull enough to be heard......really heard.
The problem is.......and it needs to be understood......Governments, councils etc etc do not care about cycling or cyclists.
They are just part of the merrygoround of life. Journalists make money out of them, LBS make money, motorists shout and honk at them, they yell back and take videos.......we are just part of everyday happenings.
They will be seen occasionally to care or have a section on their web page about being pro active.
That wins the few votes from cyclists, and gains funding for a ride to work day, so more feel good, achieve nothing photos can be put online.

You only need to take a few examples here in Perth.....certainly in the area of the cycling infrastructure grants.
I have written before on the lack of coordination of these grants. When the grants are issued on the basis of application instead of need you have problems.
$64,000 to the City of Melville to dig up a perfectly good albeit concrete path, and replace with ashphalt.
$58,000 to City of Claremont to put a 3.5m wide path alongside a lake in a newly acquired public open space.
$48,760 to Town of Vincent for a 3.5m wide path between 2 streets either side of an oval.
24,920 for City of Cambridge, for 460m of footpath
And we can add thousands of $$$$ to various councils for "bike plans"
But what makes the above samples a clear waste of money is that the remainder (about 5km) of the PSP along the Fremantle rail line will not be started until 2027...........
These are but a few samples....and we only get $1M a year for the whole of WA.
Take a trip around Perth and regularly a PSP is blocked for some reason or another. A designated cycle only lane in South Perth was closed for days recently because they needed to plop a rock concert in the middle of it.
Councils re working roads with no bike lane, but 2m pedestrian havens, and increasing squeeze points....another increasing issue in WA
The first thing any advocasy group needs to do is be very active in promoting cycling, and that is hard to do to nervous novices or nervous parents when all you can offer is a half cocked patched up bike network, that under the current system has no chance of improving in decades.
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Re: Ah Warney, stick to spin bowling mate.

Postby trailgumby » Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:16 pm

Sure, change is slow. The Trail Care guys have coined a phrase for the glacial speed at which things change: "Government pace".

So if it's going to take 5 years to get anywhere.... better to start now, or it will always be 5 years away. :idea:

Writing letters to politicians and getting others to do the same (so long as the letters are individual and NOT cut-and-paste jobs) raises the profile of issues. Believe it or not, they do a count of the letters they get by subject, for or against, to work out what the hot issues are in their electorates.

For those who may care, petitioins count pretty much only as the work of a single person, which unless you can get 10,000 signatures (in NSW only) means their impact is pretty minimal. In comparison, individually crafted letters are taken as representing the views of 20-50 people who didn't write, giving them a much greater impact. They also trigger a requirement to respond, which means they hit more than just the pollie, but their electoral support staff and if they are a minister, their department staff as well. So a single letter gets the issue in front of quite a few people who count.

And it's actually better that there are many small groups when they are all saying roughly the same thing ... that counts as "grass roots" support, which is hugely important.

In addition, if you can't do the whole advocacy thing, just do what you can. Advocacy is a team sport where sheer numbers count for a lot: every person writing counts. Many hands make light work.

If we say "that won't work, it's too hard" we're defeated before we start. Better, and more productive I think, is to ask the question "How can we... ?" :D
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Re: Ah Warney, stick to spin bowling mate.

Postby jet-ski » Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:28 pm

Lovely little article about Warney on perthnow.

"Warne duped by fake Qantas account on Twitter"

After his Melbourne Stars were knocked out of the Twenty20 Big Bash in Perth on Saturday night, Warne’s flight home on Qantas was cancelled.

“My luck is seriously running out - Qantas just cancelled the flight & no info about how or when we will get back to Melbourne,” Warne tweeted.

That’s when @QantasPR hit back, joking about the spin legend’s predicament and his recent run-in with a cyclist.

“We've left @warne888 stranded in Perth. Melbourne cyclists, it's now safe to ride your streets.”



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Re: Ah Warney, stick to spin bowling mate.

Postby trailgumby » Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:52 pm

Ah, that's gold :lol:

Seriously, Warne is looking old.
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Re: Ah Warney, stick to spin bowling mate.

Postby Oxford » Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:55 pm

it just gets better. he needs to learn to read things before responding:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/entertainme ... 6250794603
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Re: Ah Warney, stick to spin bowling mate.

Postby CommuRider » Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:00 pm

Whoever is behind @QantasPR is one, smart cookie. Warney showing his self-importance again. Really, why are organisations still giving him oxygen?
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Re: Ah Warney, stick to spin bowling mate.

Postby Mulger bill » Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:48 pm

Sharp as a cricket ball.
Bad case of the halo effect methinks.
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Re: Ah Warney, stick to spin bowling mate.

Postby polishbiker » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:02 pm

in case its has not been posted before - funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... o0sPvyd5WU
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Re: Ah Warney, stick to spin bowling mate.

Postby Hangdog98 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:26 am

Here's my plan. As a national day of protest and to put this nonsense about cyclists causing traffic distruption to bed once and for all, I propose a 'Leave your bike at home" day for all commuter cyclists who own and pay rego on their cars (about 97% of us I'm told) and take the car to work instead. In Sydney this will add about 120,000 cars into the traffic mix and bring the city to its knees. Every major arterial in both Sydney and Melbourne will be reduced to a car park as cyclists take their rightful place alongside those who 'own the road' and crawl along it at 5kph to work each day.

You'll need to alert your boss that you'll be late and there will be parking problems.

The message has to be; "Be nice to cyclists or they'll drive to work" or perhaps "Hey Warnie, put some spin on this" :lol:
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Re: Ah Warney, stick to spin bowling mate.

Postby Livetoride » Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:31 am

polishbiker wrote:in case its has not been posted before - funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... o0sPvyd5WU

:mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: Ah Warney, stick to spin bowling mate.

Postby Tracey Gaudry » Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:38 pm

trailgumby wrote:...So if it's going to take 5 years to get anywhere.... better to start now, or it will always be 5 years away. :idea:

Writing letters to politicians and getting others to do the same (so long as the letters are individual and NOT cut-and-paste jobs) raises the profile of issues. Believe it or not, they do a count of the letters they get by subject, for or against, to work out what the hot issues are in their electorates.
...And it's actually better that there are many small groups when they are all saying roughly the same thing ... that counts as "grass roots" support, which is hugely important.
...In addition, if you can't do the whole advocacy thing, just do what you can. Advocacy is a team sport where sheer numbers count for a lot: every person writing counts. Many hands make light work.
...If we say "that won't work, it's too hard" we're defeated before we start. Better, and more productive I think, is to ask the question "How can we... ?" :D

We've been observing, and absorbing all of the contribution to this discussion and other discussions, and of those who have written to us directly. Many insights and learnings for the AGF. We know (and it is reinforced in this discussion thread) that we/noone is ever going to please everyone, and there is always more to do than can be done. In our 'space' in the world of cycling, we advocate safety, and that displeases some stakeholders even in the cycling world and of course others in other worlds.
I've been asked to contribute more to this forum, and I gladly will do so and welcome feedback and advancement of contributions made.
I support some of the comments made by trailgumby, that positive change, especially when it comes to behaviour change, will take time - we're looking at a generation for a real culture shift! That's also why perhaps the 'space' that we've prioritised - behaviour change - is where others may not choose to tread, as it takes time and harder to demonstrate 'quick wins'. The AGF also supports that many groups saying the same thing will generate a groundswell, a 'movement'. We've spent the last 12 months working with many of the significant bike organsiations nationally trying to foster exactly that. There are some collaborations arising from this effort. We also recognise a responsibility to help foster a groundswell of positive sentiment towards bike-rider safety in the community, broader than the cycling/bike-riding community. That will help in influencing policy at Federal, State and Local government levels.

In terms of advocacy, we are currently reviewing our areas of priority e.g. safe overtaking distance is a priority for us, Australian Road Rules review in relation to bike-riders/vulnerable road users, driver awareness/education/enforcement, rider awareness/education/enforcement, and more. We will increasingly share our ideas, priorities and plans with this forum and learn from your feedback, as many others are already doing.

Best,

Tracey G, AGF
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Re: Ah Warney, stick to spin bowling mate.

Postby biker jk » Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:52 am

Shane Warne named unAustralian of the Year by Who Weekly magazine. A deserving winner.
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Re: Ah Warney, stick to spin bowling mate.

Postby PB12IN » Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:18 am

biker jk wrote:Shane Warne named unAustralian of the Year by Who Weekly magazine. A deserving winner.


Just saw that on sunrise, Glad to see the women on the show defended him and said that he was someone that aussie men should look up to.
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Re: Ah Warney, stick to spin bowling mate.

Postby trailgumby » Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:32 am

biker jk wrote:Shane Warne named unAustralian of the Year by Who Weekly magazine. A deserving winner.

Erm, that's Zoo Weekly. The Bogan Male's equivalent of No Idea :lol:

Herald Sun wrote:The lads mag has named Warne un-Australian of the Year in its annual list.

“Warnie’s woeful makeover sealed the deal,” said ZOO editor Tim Keen. “He’s a bloke who went from eating baked beans to being the same colour as them. He looks like Teri Hatcher’s stunt double.”
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Re: Ah Warney, stick to spin bowling mate.

Postby Old and Rusty » Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:09 pm

Tracey Gaudry wrote:We've been observing, and absorbing all of the contribution to this discussion and other discussions, and of those who have written to us directly. Many insights and learnings for the AGF. We know (and it is reinforced in this discussion thread) that we/noone is ever going to please everyone, and there is always more to do than can be done. In our 'space' in the world of cycling, we advocate safety, and that displeases some stakeholders even in the cycling world and of course others in other worlds.
I've been asked to contribute more to this forum, and I gladly will do so and welcome feedback and advancement of contributions made.
I support some of the comments made by trailgumby, that positive change, especially when it comes to behaviour change, will take time - we're looking at a generation for a real culture shift! That's also why perhaps the 'space' that we've prioritised - behaviour change - is where others may not choose to tread, as it takes time and harder to demonstrate 'quick wins'. The AGF also supports that many groups saying the same thing will generate a groundswell, a 'movement'. We've spent the last 12 months working with many of the significant bike organsiations nationally trying to foster exactly that. There are some collaborations arising from this effort. We also recognise a responsibility to help foster a groundswell of positive sentiment towards bike-rider safety in the community, broader than the cycling/bike-riding community. That will help in influencing policy at Federal, State and Local government levels.

In terms of advocacy, we are currently reviewing our areas of priority e.g. safe overtaking distance is a priority for us, Australian Road Rules review in relation to bike-riders/vulnerable road users, driver awareness/education/enforcement, rider awareness/education/enforcement, and more. We will increasingly share our ideas, priorities and plans with this forum and learn from your feedback, as many others are already doing.

Best,

Tracey G, AGF


Hi Tracey, I agree that we must apply education and bring the general population around over time but I believe that organizations such as yours shouldn't overlook other measures and deterrents to dangerous driving. I'm in the construction industry and safety/OH&S are an industry within, there are laws, methodologies and all kinds of preventative measures in place to assist those who WANT to do the right thing to get there however, there is a section of the construction industry who don't really care about the laws they just care about dollars.
To combat this apathy towards/disregard of the rules the union has gone on a hunt for scalps. If a death is possibly due to negligence or there is culpability on the company management the union is at the courthouse making a fuss for the cameras, being interviewed by the electronic tabloids and screaming for a head on a stick.
When I discuss OH&S with directors and management of other companies there is a common thought that right, wrong or indifferent the unions want scalps and to make an example of someone and everyones working that little bit harder to make sure it's not them. I'm a big believer that when it comes down to it we need to wield a bigger stick as a deterrent and 40 cyclists with "Murderer" or "Life in prison" pickets at court for motorists who hit and run or negligently kill a cyclists will add that much more pressure to hand out appropriate sentences, which in turn will make idiots think about giving us more room and consideration.
Shane Warne is off the hook now but had 20, 30 or 100 of us turned up at the MCG or the WACA with placards screaming for his arrest and charging for leaving the scene of an accident to the televion cameras then maybe he could have been OUR scalp... I'm betting it would have been lead story on every channel except the one televising the game.
AGF probably has much bigger teeth than you realise.

Just my thoughts...
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Re: Ah Warney, stick to spin bowling mate.

Postby Mulger bill » Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:14 pm

Mulger bill wrote:Now, on a more proactive side...
Anybody think it's worth a sticky thread (probably one for each state) outlining specific road rules as they apply to us? Proper copy/pastes from the actual legislation with links, none of this handbook garbage.
I'd like to be able to print off a small primer I can keep with me while riding.

I can think of a couple of members who have it pretty dialled who I'd like to start them. Pete, do you reckon you could open the batting as it were for Vic? Nate? Andrew? Ox? Whaddyer reckon fellers?

Shaun


I'd like to thank Inwood for his fine effort on getting a Qld specific thread up and running. Now how about some of the other states join in the fun.

Shaun
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Re: Ah Warney, stick to spin bowling mate.

Postby The 2nd Womble » Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:15 am

GregW wrote:
Aushiker wrote:
trailgumby wrote:It would be nice though if some of this could be a bit more visible, like an "action I've taken" subforum under an Advocacy section.


I have posted some details in the Cycling Safety section and in the WA sub-forum as has RolandP who does heaps more than me through BTAWA. Generally there is little to no response from forum members and zilch from the so called advocacy groups (other than BTAWA) which I find in particular disappointing; they could at least support/work with BTAWA and Rolandp. I would have thought the advocacy groups would be a lot more encouraging for starters.

Personally I am pretty much at the point where more and more of what I do is not shared here and I am now questioning whether it is worth even bothering to flag bike plans and the like given the lack of reaction compared to say this instance.

Happy to be convinced otherwise but the evidence is not there from what I have seen.

Regards
Andrew

-1. If it wasn
t for my wife and I, Qld wouldn't be taking things so seriously

The trouble with any advocacy groups I see here is they are not big enough or powerfull enough to be heard......really heard.
The problem is.......and it needs to be understood......Governments, councils etc etc do not care about cycling or cyclists.
They are just part of the merrygoround of life. Journalists make money out of them, LBS make money, motorists shout and honk at them, they yell back and take videos.......we are just part of everyday happenings.
They will be seen occasionally to care or have a section on their web page about being pro active.
That wins the few votes from cyclists, and gains funding for a ride to work day, so more feel good, achieve nothing photos can be put online.

You only need to take a few examples here in Perth.....certainly in the area of the cycling infrastructure grants.
I have written before on the lack of coordination of these grants. When the grants are issued on the basis of application instead of need you have problems.
$64,000 to the City of Melville to dig up a perfectly good albeit concrete path, and replace with ashphalt.
$58,000 to City of Claremont to put a 3.5m wide path alongside a lake in a newly acquired public open space.
$48,760 to Town of Vincent for a 3.5m wide path between 2 streets either side of an oval.
24,920 for City of Cambridge, for 460m of footpath
And we can add thousands of $$$$ to various councils for "bike plans"
But what makes the above samples a clear waste of money is that the remainder (about 5km) of the PSP along the Fremantle rail line will not be started until 2027...........
These are but a few samples....and we only get $1M a year for the whole of WA.
Take a trip around Perth and regularly a PSP is blocked for some reason or another. A designated cycle only lane in South Perth was closed for days recently because they needed to plop a rock concert in the middle of it.
Councils re working roads with no bike lane, but 2m pedestrian havens, and increasing squeeze points....another increasing issue in WA
The first thing any advocasy group needs to do is be very active in promoting cycling, and that is hard to do to nervous novices or nervous parents when all you can offer is a half cocked patched up bike network, that under the current system has no chance of improving in decades.
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Re: Ah Warney, stick to spin bowling mate.

Postby The 2nd Womble » Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:21 am

We just unveiled this last night (9pm) and already have International interest.
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Re: Ah Warney, stick to spin bowling mate.

Postby greyhoundtom » Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:46 am

Dedicated bike riding infrastructure costs mega dollars, and in most instances this falls under the Shire or Local Councils domain, and these are always struggling to get more money from their Rate Payers.
So untill such time as the road grants by the State Governments includes a set percentage just for cycling facilities, cycling is always going to come a very distant last.

However, IF a Vulnerable Road Users legislation was achieved, it would immediately have two effects:
One - the roads would be much safer for cyclists because of the onus it places on motor vehicle drivers.
Two - it would lead to much more pressure on Councils and State Governments to provide better infrastructure for cyclists because the motoring organisations would wish to reduce the interaction between cyclists and motorists, and motorists themselves would be more inclined to agree to more money being allocated to dedicated cycling infrastructure.

As someone recently posted “What comes first, the chicken or the egg?” Well in this case I believe it is the egg, and every cycling advocacy group should be pressuring every possible politician untill such time the egg is laid that will hatch a safer environment for cyclists Australia wide.
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Re: Ah Warney, stick to spin bowling mate.

Postby The 2nd Womble » Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:44 am

We need huge numbers and a massive push to get this on the table. The question I have is exactly who else is prepared to put the effort in? With all of Australia's groups pushing hard it still needs more of you to dedicate alot of your time and energy into such an enormous undertaking.
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Re: Ah Warney, stick to spin bowling mate.

Postby The 2nd Womble » Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:32 am

...Tumbleweed
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Re: Ah Warney, stick to spin bowling mate.

Postby greyhoundtom » Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:21 pm

The 2nd Womble wrote:We need huge numbers and a massive push to get this on the table. The question I have is exactly who else is prepared to put the effort in? With all of Australia's groups pushing hard it still needs more of you to dedicate alot of your time and energy into such an enormous undertaking.

You are right of course, and if it’s all going to fall down it’s because it is such a long term project and most people get discouraged or loose interest if “things” don’t happen fast enough.

I think a good start has been made as far as input from BNA with a vulnerable road users legislation specific string on the Safety Forum, and I hope anyone with input will post it there.

There are IMHO two ways to look at the issue; one, is to formulate the legislation as a stand alone, or two, see where the pertinent Rules to obtain the desired objectives can be fitted into the current ARR.

Either way for it to succeed it requires for the legislation or Rules to be written by a cycling safety advocacy organisation, including the intent and desired outcome objectives, and for it to be presented to the various Government road safety departments and the Minister holding the portfolio for their appraisal as a “fait accompli”.

This in reality needs to be done by the cycling advocacy organisation with the highest profile, and I believe the organisation with the best chance to bring the whole thing together is the AGF.

But even then I have no doubt that they will need the whole hearted support from every other cycling advocacy group in Australia.

If we try waiting for a specific politician or a political party to actually undertake that task, no matter how many cycling organisations or individuals ask for it to be done, it will be like waiting for a rooster to lay an egg.
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greyhoundtom
 
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