Electronic shifting. Why?

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Re: Electronic shifting. Why?

Postby PawPaw » Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:56 pm

Some questions:

- I often leave my bike in the boot in Qld summers, where it gets very hot, say 55-60C. That's a potential issue for lithium battery.
- If I don't use a mech bike for 18 mths, then want to take if for a spin, no probs, pump the tires, give it a squirt of oil, go through the gears a few times, and off you go. I presume a lithium battery might need a full charge after sitting unused for >3 mths.
- If I crash the bike, there's a chance the battery can be cracked = more expense.
- If I put the bike over on its right side, how much does a new Ultegra Di2 RD cost separately?
- And is it matter of just replacing the RD? what about the leads?
- How does Di2 compensate chain stretch, and how stretched does a chain have to be before Di2 won't shift it cleanly?
- Do chains still come off with Di2? Are there limits screws?
- Is there a B screw on Di2, and if not, what compensates weakening springs?
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by BNA » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:49 am

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Re: Electronic shifting. Why?

Postby Wayfarer » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:49 am

Johndec wrote:Disclaimer. I've never ridden a bike with Di2 or the Campy equivalent so maybe I don't know what I'm missing. That said, why would an average rider want to take the cost and weight penalty to ride a bike equipped with electronic shifting?

I can understand why the pros use Di2, etc, as they don't cop a weight penalty as their bikes easily meet the UCI 15 pound limit even with it. But why would the weekend warrior cop the extra weight and expense for what seems to be minimal benefits? In a properly tuned mechanical bike, changing gears is little more than a tap on a button anyway. Sure you have to occasionally trim the FD, just another quick tap...

Also, I couldn't think of anything worse than not being able to go for a ride because I forgot to charge the friggin battery!! Actually I can. Having to ride 30km home in 34/25 because the battery went flat! :shock:

Please enlighten me.

w*nk factor. That's really all there is to it man. Derailleur adjustment is a weak argument; forking out a bank loan to pay for a heavier, fancy electronic shifter which requires charging, proper care and maintenance, can't be submerged under water or taken on self sustained cross-country tours vs turning a screw half a spin every 6-12 months with a screwdriver. Easy choice I recon. They tried electronic shifting a long while ago (mavic made a wireless one, and shimano actually released Di2 for commuter bikes), but it never caught on. You're essentially paying for a bit of over-advertised rubbish which shifts slightly faster (>1/50th of a second) and is somehow smoother, when you can't feel the mechanics working. Corporate advertising has us working jobs we hate, to buy crap we dont need - fight club 8)

the real question is; if telstra can sue optus for 'breach of copyright', why isn't Shimano suing Campy for releasing the exact same product less than 2 years later?
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Re: Electronic shifting. Why?

Postby timbo » Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:18 am

drubie wrote:
toolonglegs wrote:Be able to shift in a sprint.


The company whose name starts with "C" and doesn't make fishing gear makes perfectly adequate shifters for sprinting. Using a button! and no battery required.


Imagine if "C" did make fishing gear. Poor fish wouldn't stand a chance. :)
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Electronic shifting. Why?

Postby twizzle » Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:53 am

drubie wrote:
number21 wrote:Better than cable adjustment, no cable at all! No more snapped shifting cables.


I'd be interested to hear from anybody who ever snapped a shifter cable. Even a rusted one.


Two, both FD. The head of the second one jammed in the shifter and I broke some of the plastic covers to get it out. According to former Shimano guy, now independent bike mechanic, they had stacks of issues with some models of the shifters. I've also replaced a few FD cables that have broken multiple strands after less than 5,000km, one was more than 50% of the way gone.
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Electronic shifting. Why?

Postby Boognoss » Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:12 am

twizzle wrote:
drubie wrote:
number21 wrote:Better than cable adjustment, no cable at all! No more snapped shifting cables.


I'd be interested to hear from anybody who ever snapped a shifter cable. Even a rusted one.


Two, both FD. The head of the second one jammed in the shifter and I broke some of the plastic covers to get it out. According to former Shimano guy, now independent bike mechanic, they had stacks of issues with some models of the shifters. I've also replaced a few FD cables that have broken multiple strands after less than 5,000km, one was more than 50% of the way gone.

+2

Regularly about every 3000-4000km for the RD on both 5600 and 7600 shifters. Always frays and snaps in the shifter 5mm from the end of the cable.


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Re: Electronic shifting. Why?

Postby TimW » Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:15 am

drubie wrote:
number21 wrote:Better than cable adjustment, no cable at all! No more snapped shifting cables.


I'd be interested to hear from anybody who ever snapped a shifter cable. Even a rusted one.

Not quite but close, yesterday at the end of my ride i went into the LBS as shifting was "weird", cable was down to last strand, and "about" to go. Second time in approx 12000 k's on that bike.Tim
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Re: Electronic shifting. Why?

Postby avroncotton » Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:38 am

Plus you can get a Full carbon bike with Di2 for under $3k. Not bad!
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Re: Electronic shifting. Why?

Postby Ross » Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:47 am

I think a lot of Di2 purchases are mainly for pose value. I've only ridden one Di2 equipped bike very briefly on a wind trainer for about 5 mins so have very little experience with it but I was a little underwhelmed by it. It didnt seem to do anything that the mechanical groupset didn't do. But like I say I only spent 5 mins with it. I'd like to have a decent ride on the road of a Di2 equipped bike but son't know many people that have them. LBS manager has a Di2 equipped bike but that I might be able to persuade him to let me go for a ride but I won't do it because there is no way I will ever buy it from there at RRP that is close to twice the price of Wiggle etc.

The no maintenance thing would be good, but can't justify spending the several thousand dollars required.

Not being a hater, if you can afford it and want it then go for it!

I can see a performance advantage to using it on a TT bike where you can have 2 sets of shift buttons. I will give serious consideration to buying UDi2 version when they bring out the TT version, can't justify or afford the DA version.
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Re: Electronic shifting. Why?

Postby MichaelB » Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:50 am

I was in the same thought pattern as the OP until I had the chnace to ride a bike with Ultegra Di2.

Will it make me faster ? No.

Does it chnage better ? Yes. Very much so.

Hassle at having to charge another battery ? Meh.

Extra weight ? Pfft. At 88/89kg, whats a couple of hundred extra

Worth it ? No, not to me if you buy the gruppo to swap out onto an existing bike. But a big YES for the next bike.

Do yourself a favour. Actually try it and then make a judgement.
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Re: Electronic shifting. Why?

Postby Stoo » Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:58 am

id also suggest a di2 specific bike frame.....that way the install looks right as apposes to little zip ties every where to hold things in place.
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Re: Electronic shifting. Why?

Postby Oxford » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:11 am

when they bring out electronic shifting for single speed bikes I'll buy it. :mrgreen:

I can see the attraction, nice clean lines as you stick down a ribbon wire instead of a cable, but it'll be a long time before I would bother with it myself, simply as I have no use for it, unless they make an electronic comfort bike version for my weekly grocery shopping trip. :P
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Re: Electronic shifting. Why?

Postby scotto » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:17 am

electronic shifting is analogous to the sydney-hobart maxi yachts who cant sail without a generator running to control their canting keel. there both an abhorance to the sports - but i wouldnt say no !!
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Re: Electronic shifting. Why?

Postby ozdavo » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:30 am

Slightly OT, but any idea how it will stand up after 5+ years & 50,000+ km's?
In my experience electronics are generally outlasted by mechanics...
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Re: Electronic shifting. Why?

Postby mianos » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:37 am

I get a cable split into strands about once a year. Of course it's easy to fix and rarely a problem, even on the road so it's not really enough to justify DI2 but I like it anyway.
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Re: Electronic shifting. Why?

Postby alex » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:41 am

di2 is amazing, you really have to ride it to 'get' it

next bike will have di2

cant believe people complain about charging the battery maybe twice a year... its usually the same people who don't complain about having to charge their garmin every single ride!
if i get killed while out on my bike i dont want a 'memorial ride' by random punters i have never met.
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Re: Electronic shifting. Why?

Postby sogood » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:52 am

Boognoss wrote:Regularly about every 3000-4000km for the RD on both 5600 and 7600 shifters. Always frays and snaps in the shifter 5mm from the end of the cable.

Which dodgy shifters are you using? Time to shift your allegiance. ;)
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Re: Electronic shifting. Why?

Postby sogood » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:55 am

ozdavo wrote:Slightly OT, but any idea how it will stand up after 5+ years & 50,000+ km's?
In my experience electronics are generally outlasted by mechanics...

Battery may not last but I have no doubt it can handle 50+km when used appropriately.
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Re: Electronic shifting. Why?

Postby Le Velo » Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:00 am

MichaelB wrote: Do yourself a favour. Actually try it and then make a judgement.


+ 1
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Re: Electronic shifting. Why?

Postby RonK » Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:04 am

timbo wrote:Imagine if "C" did make fishing gear. Poor fish wouldn't stand a chance. :)

And the fisherman would look incredibly stylish at the same time. More important than actually catching any smelly, slimy fish.:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Electronic shifting. Why?

Postby Mustang » Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:09 am

Yet to see a thread:
"I'm ditching my Di2 & going back to friction" ??????
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Re: Electronic shifting. Why?

Postby RonK » Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:12 am

drubie wrote:
number21 wrote:Better than cable adjustment, no cable at all! No more snapped shifting cables.


I'd be interested to hear from anybody who ever snapped a shifter cable. Even a rusted one.

My wife had a bike with Ergopower (Record) that frayed and snapped the end off rear shift cables regularly.
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Re: Electronic shifting. Why?

Postby RonK » Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:17 am

Wayfarer wrote:the real question is; if telstra can sue optus for 'breach of copyright', why isn't Shimano suing Campy for releasing the exact same product less than 2 years later?

haha, that would be a laugh - a company from the land of the world's greatest imitators suing the company that invented the derailleur transmission. :roll:
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Re: Electronic shifting. Why?

Postby biker jk » Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:33 am

RonK wrote:
Wayfarer wrote:the real question is; if telstra can sue optus for 'breach of copyright', why isn't Shimano suing Campy for releasing the exact same product less than 2 years later?

haha, that would be a laugh - a company from the land of the world's greatest imitators suing the company that invented the derailleur transmission. :roll:


Campagnolo invented the derailleur in 1940. Not much innovation since. Meanwhile, Shimano came up with indexed shifting and integrated shifters, to name a few innovations that Campagnolo has copied.
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Re: Electronic shifting. Why?

Postby number21 » Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:43 am

drubie wrote:
number21 wrote:Better than cable adjustment, no cable at all! No more snapped shifting cables.


I'd be interested to hear from anybody who ever snapped a shifter cable. Even a rusted one.


My 5600 RD cable snapped after just over two years constant use. Seen it happen a few times to others on Audax rides also.

I'd love to try Di2, but will resist until I can actually afford it. Surely SRAM will give it a go in a year or two, I think most punters will eventually go for it but there will always be some who prefer the simplicity of a mechanic set up. Not thats there's anything wrong with that!
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Re: Electronic shifting. Why?

Postby alex » Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:51 am

i have a dream that one day cyclists will not be judged by the actuation method of their deraillers, but by the content of their character
if i get killed while out on my bike i dont want a 'memorial ride' by random punters i have never met.
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