Centennial Park - Speed Bumps to be put in the Cycle Lane

[AUbicycles]

diggler, I don't agree and in my personal view the comments are, in general, way off the mark.

[citywomble]

Actually, while I don't entirely agree with all that diggler has said, I do disagree with what AUbicycles said. Whilst a FEW were 'way off the mark' I think that most of the remarks were fairly well balanced. I actually sympathise with the park authorities who are trying to find an equitable solution.

What I found interesting was that in response to this suggestion:

Put the pedestrian crossing on the speed bump and light the crossing. Problem solved. Still plenty of distance for cyclists to get up to a good speed in between. What's wrong with slowing down every now and then? Gives you a better work out if you then have to accelerate!

This was the response:

Actually, the constant acceleration/decelleration part is not good training if what you're attempting to do is a constant-pace, constant heart-rate endurance run. But nice try.

In other words very clear confirmation that endurance cyclists are not only going too fast but, as a vehicle under road rules or park bylaws, having absolutely no intention of slowing down because "it is not good training". Guys, its not good riding in a multi-use public space!

Also interesting in this thread is the thought that the authorities would be liable if someone crashed because of the speed bumps. Nice try - not so.

As long as the speed bumps are within a suitable speed limit zone (such as 20kph), then the liability would be with the cyclist who would only have crashed because they we going too fast and outside the signed limit. The cyclist is obliged to adhere to the limit and, in the absence of a ranger (who cannot be there always) the purpose of the speed hump is to make it uncomfortable if going too fast (thats why they are often called 'sleeping policemen') and if that extends to 'coming off' then the fault lies with the rider, not the bump. If you are going too fast to cope with a speed bump, in a slow zone, then you are too fast PERIOD. Ultimately, with very excessive speed you could (almost) argue that the purpose of the bump is to ensure the cyclist does 'come off' before they do serious harm to someone else (Note I said 'almost').

[toolonglegs]

Simple point is people will just cross where they want... for the kids cycle path it is on the other side of the road to the side you are allowed to park on. Simply people will get out of their car and cross the road there... they won't walk 50 or 100 meters to the ped crossing to cross there...it isn't exactly a busy road after all.
I obviously don't train in CP ... but when I did every so often I certainly didn't go there in the busy periods, just too much traffic... or I would just ride on the hilly bit around and around and around .

[ni78ck]

Citywomble, you obviously have never used the park for training or anything else

[Sydguy]

The whole point is that they could put in variable speed limits, they can put on some kind of removable speed hump and not inconvienence 1,000 cyclists who mainly use the park before 7am and after 7pm.

The cyclists want alternatives considered, they did not go out of their way to chant "look at me" I wear lycra.

Article in todays paper, Train guards and drivers refuse urine tests, will anyone comment on that??? Nope, let train drivers and guards be drunk who cares? There are cyclists out there going too fast and riding close to peds.

Motorist dead this mornign in the city, but no one will complain about motorists... no bad apples in that barrell.

If you don't cycle in CP you simply should not comment. The cyclists are being 100% reasonable and want to work with the correct authorities to sort out the issues so that everyone is happy. This MIGHT mean peds will need to be careful when they cross the path, it might mean cyclists are speed limited during busy times in the park, 7am to 7pm...

I would bet my home that even with all of the safety measure in place you will still get a few cyclists who will disregard the measures. Just as some motorists in CP will participate in hand-to-hand combat for a parking space. You can not enforce good courteous behaviour, smart people still check left and right when they have a green light.

If you cycle you should not be so fast to trash 1,000 cyclists, surely you don't get 1,000 people to rock up out of their way to a location if there is no issue? The result has been a lot of feedback and sensible suggestions, alas there are little funds for a real solution - it is all being spent on widening freeways.

JM

[norbs]

The whole point is that they could put in variable speed limits, they can put on some kind of removable speed hump and not inconvienence 1,000 cyclists who mainly use the park before 7am and after 7pm.

The cyclists want alternatives considered, they did not go out of their way to chant "look at me" I wear lycra.

Article in todays paper, Train guards and drivers refuse urine tests, will anyone comment on that??? Nope, let train drivers and guards be drunk who cares? There are cyclists out there going too fast and riding close to peds.

Motorist dead this mornign in the city, but no one will complain about motorists... no bad apples in that barrell.

If you don't cycle in CP you simply should not comment. The cyclists are being 100% reasonable and want to work with the correct authorities to sort out the issues so that everyone is happy. This MIGHT mean peds will need to be careful when they cross the path, it might mean cyclists are speed limited during busy times in the park, 7am to 7pm...

I would bet my home that even with all of the safety measure in place you will still get a few cyclists who will disregard the measures. Just as some motorists in CP will participate in hand-to-hand combat for a parking space. You can not enforce good courteous behaviour, smart people still check left and right when they have a green light.

If you cycle you should not be so fast to trash 1,000 cyclists, surely you don't get 1,000 people to rock up out of their way to a location if there is no issue? The result has been a lot of feedback and sensible suggestions, alas there are little funds for a real solution - it is all being spent on widening freeways.

JM

Wow, I know it is probably the end of a long week, but that is the stupidest comment I have read in ages! Well done.

[sogood]

In any case, if you do have to stop once every few kms, is that such a bad thing. I stop for traffic lights.

Yes, it is a bad thing. This is not commuter riding.

[Sydguy]

Norbs - people are making all kinds of assumptions regarding cycling in CP, most of which are not true.

It is disheartening when said people are fellow cyclists.

This is a CP issue, it has NO ramifications on cycling outside CP.

So the park authority and users, all users, need to formulate a workable plan that does not completely impede one particular set of users. Everyone agrees with this, but they still inject venom and call into question the motive of those who attended the rally, as is their right to protect their interests which were overlooked when the plan was drawn up.

In this case it is the 1,000 or so cyclists who train in the park, wanting to do hot laps. This should be allowed free of speed humps when the park is not busy, ie when they generally use it.

There is enough land for everyone there. If the pressure from the CP riders leads to more consultation in CP and other projects affecting cycling then great. It is not a bad thing for cyclists to flex their muscles from time to time so that politicians realise there are more than a few of us.

People jump on the having to slow down for ped crossing comments made but for the person who voiced this it is a concern. Just like motorists who want the M5 idened, pretty stupid idea, but near and dear to lots of motorists hearts. They have no proble voicing their concerns and they get a few billion dollars thrown at them.

I've seen a one armed girl cycle there, full prosthetic limb attached to the handle bars. She is safer in a peleton/bunch and in a park compared to the roads... Hand cyclists would be forced out - would you ride a hand cycle on a road?

I am all for a crack down on renegade cyclists flying past kids, and doing stupid things but training out of peak hours should be unaffected by any crack down.

JM

[norbs]

Norbs - people are making all kinds of assumptions regarding cycling in CP, most of which are not true.

It is disheartening when said people are fellow cyclists.

This is a CP issue, it has NO ramifications on cycling outside CP.

So the park authority and users, all users, need to formulate a workable plan that does not completely impede one particular set of users. Everyone agrees with this, but they still inject venom and call into question the motive of those who attended the rally, as is their right to protect their interests which were overlooked when the plan was drawn up.

In this case it is the 1,000 or so cyclists who train in the park, wanting to do hot laps. This should be allowed free of speed humps when the park is not busy, ie when they generally use it.

There is enough land for everyone there. If the pressure from the CP riders leads to more consultation in CP and other projects affecting cycling then great. It is not a bad thing for cyclists to flex their muscles from time to time so that politicians realise there are more than a few of us.

People jump on the having to slow down for ped crossing comments made but for the person who voiced this it is a concern. Just like motorists who want the M5 idened, pretty stupid idea, but near and dear to lots of motorists hearts. They have no proble voicing their concerns and they get a few billion dollars thrown at them.

I've seen a one armed girl cycle there, full prosthetic limb attached to the handle bars. She is safer in a peleton/bunch and in a park compared to the roads... Hand cyclists would be forced out - would you ride a hand cycle on a road?

I am all for a crack down on renegade cyclists flying past kids, and doing stupid things but training out of peak hours should be unaffected by any crack down.

JM

All fair arguments, but, saying that cyclists want to do hot laps when the park isn't busy. How is that any different to motorists saying they want to do 200kph on the M4 at 3am?

On the speed humps thing. I cant read the CP site for some reason from work, so I am not 100% on the proposed changes. Are the speed humps only in the cycling lanes or across the whole road?

I spoke with a mate yesterday who is just getting into cycling at 45 after a heart attack mid last year. He was saying he had a moment last week when a slower cyclist in front of him was using up a fair bit of the cycle lane. It was just before sunrise and as he looked over his shoulder, there was a bunch approaching, lights flashing. He said he thought he had time to pull out and get around the slower cyclist, but as he did, the bunch was going so fast they nearly cleaned him up. Apparently they all gave him a gob full. He explained to me it was very hard to tell their speed because of the many flashing lights. He estimated they were doing 45+kph. He is now reluctant to go back.

I don't know what the answer is, just giving a perspective from a less experienced riders behalf. I have riden there before, I will probably ride there again one day, so surely I am allowed an opinion.

[mianos]

All fair arguments, but, saying that cyclists want to do hot laps when the park isn't busy. How is that any different to motorists saying they want to do 200kph on the M4 at 3am?

So completely different it's a totally invalid argument. 40kph is considered safe for cars outside schools. That's about the maximum any normal cyclist will be doing in that section. Most will be doing just over 30, if that when considering the older and less fit cyclist (usually not present at 6am anyway). If you fall off you might get hurt but just as likely get back up and ride away.
At 200kph, if you crash you most likely die.

[Sydguy]

Firstly we can all stand down - there will be no speed bumps. The NSW government has confirmed they will not allow it, even to a government not enthused with cycling they realised it was a bad idea. Take three deep breathes... .... .... feel better already.

IMHO somthing should still be done if peds feel threatened by cyclists, it should however only operate during peak ped times. If nothing else this might get some cyclists to pull their heads in a little and show more regard for others. Hopefully other park users are now more aware of the cyclists.

As for your inexperienced cycling friend, like you I am disgusted when people provide gobs full to anyone. Yelling in that manner only releases pent up fear, I used to do it jumping out of planes because I was scared half to death, my fear of heights and sudden stops.

Advise your mate that prior to overtaking anyone you must make sure you don't obstruct traffic, be it a truck, car, bus etc... regardless of the law. This is just self preservation. I've crawled behind slow riders for what can seem like ages until there is a sufficient break in traffic. Being in a bunch means they need more notice for changed conditions ahead, but it they were all spaced out riding solo your mate would be passed every few seconds... probably more dangerous. Limit bunch sizes to 20 and for bunches about 10 who are going to get some pace just use the road.

People will make mistakes especially when starting out, if a bunch gives a gob full and more than a couple are wearing shop knicks report them to their shop/club/team pronto. This does get passed on, especially where a cycling shop takes heat, they don't want new cyclists off side. They want their custom.

CP is probably not the greatest place for a learner in the early hours, much like driving in the CBD on your L Plates during peak hour. Still I hope your mate perseveres there are just as many nice people who cycle as muppets.

JM

[AUbicycles]

Actually, while I don't entirely agree with all that diggler has said, I do disagree with what AUbicycles said. Whilst a FEW were 'way off the mark' I think that most of the remarks were fairly well balanced. I actually sympathise with the park authorities who are trying to find an equitable solution.

Thanks for your feedback on this. I spent a lot of time thinking and writing and in the end disagreed that much that I felt it wasn't worth going into details so kept it short.
I will stick with my views on this as refuting each item is probably boring for everyone... and different views make for a richer and healthier community.

[biker jk]

It's a good result for cycling in CP. However, I agree that the bunches need to be better disciplined both with regard to their speed, overtaking and general behaviour on the bike. Also, those crazy commuter cyclists going the wrong way around CP need to be fined, let alone the early morning Ninjas.

[ni78ck]

The whole point is that they could put in variable speed limits, they can put on some kind of removable speed hump and not inconvienence 1,000 cyclists who mainly use the park before 7am and after 7pm.

The cyclists want alternatives considered, they did not go out of their way to chant "look at me" I wear lycra.

Article in todays paper, Train guards and drivers refuse urine tests, will anyone comment on that??? Nope, let train drivers and guards be drunk who cares? There are cyclists out there going too fast and riding close to peds.

Motorist dead this mornign in the city, but no one will complain about motorists... no bad apples in that barrell.

If you don't cycle in CP you simply should not comment. The cyclists are being 100% reasonable and want to work with the correct authorities to sort out the issues so that everyone is happy. This MIGHT mean peds will need to be careful when they cross the path, it might mean cyclists are speed limited during busy times in the park, 7am to 7pm...

I would bet my home that even with all of the safety measure in place you will still get a few cyclists who will disregard the measures. Just as some motorists in CP will participate in hand-to-hand combat for a parking space. You can not enforce good courteous behaviour, smart people still check left and right when they have a green light.

If you cycle you should not be so fast to trash 1,000 cyclists, surely you don't get 1,000 people to rock up out of their way to a location if there is no issue? The result has been a lot of feedback and sensible suggestions, alas there are little funds for a real solution - it is all being spent on widening freeways.

JM

Wow, I know it is probably the end of a long week, but that is the stupidest comment I have read in ages! Well done.

norbs, you obviously dont use the park either
sydguy speaks alot of sense regarding this matter.

[Apple]

It's a good result for cycling in CP. However, I agree that the bunches need to be better disciplined both with regard to their speed, overtaking and general behaviour on the bike. Also, those crazy commuter cyclists going the wrong way around CP need to be fined, let alone the early morning Ninjas.

Well said.

[Apple]

Many of you have failed to say that many of the aggressive riders use the car lane at 45km/hr, cars are unable to reverse out of their spots.
when the bunch come down the hill they fly without giving way to the cyclists already in the circle in the park, many group riders are selfish and aggressive, how do I know. I also belonged to those groups and when you are in them you don't care about anyone else, it’s all about speed, and many of the triathletes use it as a time trial. Yes it is a buzz, at the end of the day, it is wrong not to share.

[norbs]

The whole point is that they could put in variable speed limits, they can put on some kind of removable speed hump and not inconvienence 1,000 cyclists who mainly use the park before 7am and after 7pm.

The cyclists want alternatives considered, they did not go out of their way to chant "look at me" I wear lycra.

Article in todays paper, Train guards and drivers refuse urine tests, will anyone comment on that??? Nope, let train drivers and guards be drunk who cares? There are cyclists out there going too fast and riding close to peds.

Motorist dead this mornign in the city, but no one will complain about motorists... no bad apples in that barrell.

If you don't cycle in CP you simply should not comment. The cyclists are being 100% reasonable and want to work with the correct authorities to sort out the issues so that everyone is happy. This MIGHT mean peds will need to be careful when they cross the path, it might mean cyclists are speed limited during busy times in the park, 7am to 7pm...

I would bet my home that even with all of the safety measure in place you will still get a few cyclists who will disregard the measures. Just as some motorists in CP will participate in hand-to-hand combat for a parking space. You can not enforce good courteous behaviour, smart people still check left and right when they have a green light.

If you cycle you should not be so fast to trash 1,000 cyclists, surely you don't get 1,000 people to rock up out of their way to a location if there is no issue? The result has been a lot of feedback and sensible suggestions, alas there are little funds for a real solution - it is all being spent on widening freeways.

JM

Wow, I know it is probably the end of a long week, but that is the stupidest comment I have read in ages! Well done.

norbs, you obviously dont use the park either
sydguy speaks alot of sense regarding this matter.

You know what they say about opinions.

I have used it in the past, and will probably again in the future. Because I don't use it right now makes my thoughts invalid does it?

[zero]

Many of you have failed to say that many of the aggressive riders use the car lane at 45km/hr, cars are unable to reverse out of their spots.
when the bunch come down the hill they fly without giving way to the cyclists already in the circle in the park, many group riders are selfish and aggressive, how do I know. I also belonged to those groups and when you are in them you don't care about anyone else, it’s all about speed, and many of the triathletes use it as a time trial. Yes it is a buzz, at the end of the day, it is wrong not to share.

Drivers persistently drive into the cyclelane to left pass cars that are parking or reversing out or waiting for a spot, or just plain abandoned their car double parked, or park in the cyclelane. Or park in the cyclelane and then throw open the door whilst using their mobile.

Cars are perfectly able to reverse out of their spots, in exactly the same way that they have to wait for a line of motor traffic to pass first. Also how exactly else do you propose we pass a 4 wheel roofed bicycle being driven by a 7 year old ? There is no way in hell I'm going to try squeeze past that, or any for that matter, any kid at 30km/hr by riding alongside them in the cyclelane, and I'm certainly not going to let a car driver doing 50 come up behind me and expect to squeeze past the whole mess whilst I'm overtaking either. I change lanes.

A peleton of 50 bikes isn't much longer than half a dozen cars, and I see half a dozen car queues all the time in there.

[gururug]

Haven't really had too many problems with cars, occasionally speeding up / misjudging a left turn in front of you.

[Apple]

Haven't really had too many problems with cars, occasionally speeding up / misjudging a left turn in front of you.

I feel the same,
Just some cycllist like to Exaggerate.

[Apple]

Drivers persistently drive into the cyclelane to left pass cars that are parking or reversing out or waiting for a spot, or just plain abandoned their car double parked, or park in the cyclelane. Or park in the cyclelane and then throw open the door whilst using their mobile.

Cars are perfectly able to reverse out of their spots, in exactly the same way that they have to wait for a line of motor traffic to pass first. Also how exactly else do you propose we pass a 4 wheel roofed bicycle being driven by a 7 year old ? There is no way in hell I'm going to try squeeze past that, or any for that matter, any kid at 30km/hr by riding alongside them in the cyclelane, and I'm certainly not going to let a car driver doing 50 come up behind me and expect to squeeze past the whole mess whilst I'm overtaking either. I change lanes.

A peleton of 50 bikes isn't much longer than half a dozen cars, and I see half a dozen car queues all the time in there.

[/quote]
This is overkill. Peleton of 50 in the park
I ride in the park and I have not seen your claims at such extreme.

At the end of the day it is a Park for everyone to share. Families, pets, horses and cyclists. Everyone should respect each other, so you need to compromise and slow down if you see a child cross, or a dog running after a duck. These things happen in a Park that should be safe for everyone.

[sogood]

Firstly we can all stand down - there will be no speed bumps. The NSW government has confirmed they will not allow it, even to a government not enthused with cycling they realised it was a bad idea. Take three deep breathes... .... .... feel better already...

Huh? Has there been a press statement on this? I couldn't find any such reports on Google.

[Sydguy]

Barry tweeted that the gov't would not approve the proposed changes.

The cyclists should organise regular sit downs with park trust and try to sort some of the issues out.

First off would be nice to see some data on actual incidents instead of hearsay, they must be basing the proposals on some research...

Jm

[norbs]

Barry tweeted that the gov't would not approve the proposed changes.

The cyclists should organise regular sit downs with park trust and try to sort some of the issues out.

First off would be nice to see some data on actual incidents instead of hearsay, they must be basing the proposals on some research...

Jm

He also said no more solar FIT until people went nuts. I wouldn't trust a Tweet from Flip Flop Barry.

[mark field]

this thread has just reinforced what Ive always thought- harmonious co-existence is rare:

when i'm driving on the road, cyclists get in my way.

when i'm cycling on the road, i get in the way of drivers.

when i'm cycling on the cycle path near my place, pedestrians get in my way

when i'm running on the path near my place, i get in the way of cyclists

when i'm walking on the path near my place, i get in the way of runners

when i'm pushing the shopping trolley at the supermarket, i get in the way of people just carrying a basket.

as a walker, runner, cyclist, driver, shopper these things always have and always will happen, i just learn to be patient and accept it.