Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

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ColinOldnCranky
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Sun May 13, 2012 10:11 am

G-Ride wrote:Little wrong with that at all. To blame all incidents on motorists is just plain wrong - admittedly the quest for balance at the end was clumsy but the point was valid.
No-one is blaming motorists for ALL incidents but it does clearly allocate the total blame to them in this case.

And why shouldn't it? Pls give me some sort of even half-plausible scenario in which a driver would NOT be wholly culpable? Perhaps there is some disability issue somewhere but even in that case it is encumbent then to address an inability to check behind.

The journos concerned let another agenda on cyclists that they appear to have (hell, I have the same agenda) cross over into an unrelated matter. They were jerks who detracted from an otherwise good piece of public comment.
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ColinOldnCranky
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Sun May 13, 2012 10:29 am

ft_critical wrote:I don't think you can educate people to look before they open the door.
Why not? If you were to talk to a dozen people at a bbq (and could get them to focus for a moment on the point you are making before heading into "cyclists should be registered" etc) and suggested that opening the door with the opposite hand results in them better seeing the passing motorist or cyclist, most of them will have never thought about it before and most will see the sense in it. After being made aware it just has to be ingrained. Public awareness programs do this effectively where the messages are simple and unarguable. I think opening with the opposite hand fits both requirements.
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby jules21 » Sun May 13, 2012 11:47 am

i agree that it is unlikely you can educate most people.

low consequences for them + low probability of occurrence = not likely to register on people's radar

people focus on priority issues, trying to convince them to focus on something that is unlikely to ever impact on or involve them is not usually a winning strategy.

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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby flyby » Sun May 13, 2012 12:12 pm

jules21 wrote:i agree that it is unlikely you can educate most people.

low consequences for them + low probability of occurrence = not likely to register on people's radar

people focus on priority issues, trying to convince them to focus on something that is unlikely to ever impact on or involve them is not usually a winning strategy.
that's why you make the consequences worth talking about - if someone gets a $1000 fine and gets docked a huge number of demerit points they'll tell their friends, and their friends will tell their friends...

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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby PB12IN » Sun May 13, 2012 5:16 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote:Pls give me some sort of even half-plausible scenario in which a driver would NOT be wholly culpable? Perhaps there is some disability issue somewhere but even in that case it is encumbent then to address an inability to check behind.
Who here hasn't seen a ninja out on a dark night, that could be a reason, driver checks but cant see said idiot = dooring that is wholly cyclists fault!

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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby Chris249 » Sun May 13, 2012 8:55 pm

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Last edited by Chris249 on Mon May 14, 2012 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby Wayfarer » Sun May 13, 2012 11:48 pm

Maybe his next story will be about his girlfriend, who repeatedly pounded her face against his fist, then tripped over his gun. It's her own fault she got beat up and shot? Argh, darn moron
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby alexf » Mon May 14, 2012 9:49 am

PB12IN wrote: Who here hasn't seen a ninja out on a dark night, that could be a reason, driver checks but cant see said idiot = dooring that is wholly cyclists fault!
Then cyclist would not be riding legally and I imagine that the law will find in favour of the driver.

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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby Peacewise » Tue May 15, 2012 11:24 am

rode/worked about 9 hours a day for 5 years as an adelaide bike courier, never got doored because i checked for driver heads and gave myself space. often enough i took 1 to 2 m from parked cars regardless of driver head. i copped a bit of abuse rarely, but im still here.

laws and fines do sweet fa for preventing dooring, its our responsibility as riders to make ourselves safe.

if a rider hasnt the confidence to take the whole lane for safety sake, when required, thats the riders lack imo, that includes blind bends/corners, heavy traffic or single lane situations.

Own the road... and ride safe.

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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby Undertow » Tue May 15, 2012 12:40 pm

Peacewise wrote: if a rider hasnt the confidence to take the whole lane for safety sake, when required, thats the riders lack imo, that includes blind bends/corners, heavy traffic or single lane situations.
I dislike riding with my girlfriend around parked cars because she's afraid that taking the lane might aggravate traffic behind her, so she rides really close to the parked cars, doesn't matter how much I explain that it's unsafe. And by really close I mean she's no more than about 20cm from their mirrors. I'm kinda surprised that she hasn't been doored yet.
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby ldrcycles » Thu May 17, 2012 7:08 pm

:shock: . A reasonably well written, unbiased and informative article? What's going on! Does not compute!
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby KenGS » Thu May 17, 2012 8:27 pm

ldrcycles wrote::shock: . A reasonably well written, unbiased and informative article? What's going on! Does not compute!
One of the comments:
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby gauchoracer » Fri May 18, 2012 7:18 pm

Grrrrrrrr...??..???...!!!!!!!!......
I just watched that article from the home page from ABC Morning News, and was thinking, well put, well reasoned, common sense, not after everyone, just the ones who door cyclists... 8) :D :D 8)
Then I got to the end, and to whatever his name is, (the presenter, who "LOVES Everyone..."), maybe someone should grab that bag of salt that he so Lovingly wants to take with his news story, and rub it into the wounds he sustains from getting collected by a car while riding a bicycle.... :x :x :x :x :x :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
"Unfair to purely blame motorists 100% of the time..." Well of course it is, I guess 50% of the time, cyclists open someone else's car door just before they ride into it... :? :? :? :? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Thank you... end of rant... :) :D
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby ldrcycles » Sun May 20, 2012 8:54 pm

Received this from the ABC in response to my complaint (i'm assuming the others who complained will have received/be receiving something very similar).

Thank you for your email about a segment on ABC News Breakfast on 7 May.



In accordance with the ABC's complaint handling procedures, your correspondence has been considered by Audience & Consumer Affairs, a unit which is separate to and independent of program making areas within the ABC. The role of Audience & Consumer Affairs is to investigate complaints alleging that ABC content has breached the ABC's editorial standards.



We understand you are concerned that, following an interview with Garry Brennan from Bicycle Network Victoria, hosts Michael Rowland and Karina Carvalho suggested that cyclists should share the blame for ‘dooring’ incidents. This was incorrect.



Accordingly, ABC News broadcast the following correction on the News Breakfast program on 10 May at 7.45am:



Now we just need to make a clarification about a story we brought you earlier this week.



On Monday, our reporter Simon Lauder interviewed Garry Brennan from Bicycle Network Victoria about a campaign to increase fines for motorists who open their car doors into the path of cyclists.



After the interview, we suggested that cyclists should share some of the blame for ‘dooring’ incidents. The law states that this is incorrect.

In every ‘dooring’ incident it is the fault of the person opening the door for not exercising due care.

We were, however, trying to make the general point that both motorists and cyclists need more education about road safety.

A correction was also posted on the News Corrections and Clarifications webpage at:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/corrections/ .

In view of the steps taken by ABC News to correct the error, Audience & Consumer Affairs consider this matter to be resolved.

Thank you for bringing this to our attention, and please be assured your comments have been brought to the attention of ABC News Management. For your reference, the ABC Code of Practice is available here: http://www.abc.net.au/corp/pubs/documen ... ce2011.pdf. Should you be dissatisfied with this response, you may be able to pursue your complaint with the Australian Communications and Media Authority (http://www.acma.gov.au).

Yours sincerely

Lauren Crozier

ABC Audience & Consumer Affairs
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ColinOldnCranky
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Sun May 20, 2012 11:05 pm

PB12IN wrote:
ColinOldnCranky wrote:Pls give me some sort of even half-plausible scenario in which a driver would NOT be wholly culpable? Perhaps there is some disability issue somewhere but even in that case it is encumbent then to address an inability to check behind.
Who here hasn't seen a ninja out on a dark night, that could be a reason, driver checks but cant see said idiot = dooring that is wholly cyclists fault!
Yeah, good call. I am guilty of a narrow focus. Another has been alluded to since my post on those who duck back into the line that parkers take for fear of traffic and then pull out just before they pass the parked car.

Regardless of what the interviewee says that the law makes no allowance for the driver to defend his action, I have faith that a magistrate would throw it out regardless. Most regs do not state the outs anyway, the presiding legal officer determines those on a case by cae basis. In only the rarest of legislation do the parliamentary draftsmen remove all discretion (though it is happening more).
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby Mulger bill » Sun May 20, 2012 11:45 pm

ldrcycles wrote:Received this from the ABC in response to my complaint (i'm assuming the others who complained will have received/be receiving something very similar).
Yep. Form letter.
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby find_bruce » Mon May 21, 2012 5:23 pm

ldrcycles wrote:Received this from the ABC in response to my complaint (i'm assuming the others who complained will have received/be receiving something very similar).
Mulger bill wrote:Yep. Form letter.
I wanted to say you were unduly cynical :D, but then today I received the same email, word for word. I am still happy because the ABC's stuff up appears to have generated more publicity that the 3 or 4 people who actually watch the drivel.
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby jules21 » Mon May 21, 2012 5:27 pm

as someone who has been the 'letter writer' in a former job, there's nothing wrong with form letters if they address your concern. it's an inefficient use of employees' time to redraft perfectly good letters, just to give them a personal touch.

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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby trailgumby » Mon May 21, 2012 7:47 pm

Don't mind the form letter, which I have also received. However, I do take exception to the following:
We were, however, trying to make the general point that both motorists and cyclists need more education about road safety.
Yeah, sure you were. If I want to have my intelligence insulted I'll buy the Daily Telegraph, thanks.

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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby hiflange » Mon May 21, 2012 9:47 pm

Haven't got mine yet. It's a bit of a Clayton's apology, it's exactly the sort of stuff my 8 yo does when I suggest he apologise for something - "Mum, I really sorry for screaming at you... But (I'm paraphrasing) I had a pretty good justification blah blah blah".

The significant bit they didn't apologise for was the smug superiority. I'll be writing back asking for more!

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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby AUbicycles » Mon May 21, 2012 10:10 pm

I havn't heard back yet and after seeing the answers am disappointed but realistically, what do I expect? Well not very much.

Waste of time giving it much further though, though a small bit of hope that they received enough complaints that form letters will clear the issue though they can be more cautious on camera with their candid banter.
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby JV911 » Wed May 23, 2012 8:16 am

2 articles in today's local paper - Leichhardt council is spending $35k on a dooring awareness campaign

New open door policy helps cyclists

http://inner-west-courier.whereilive.co ... -cyclists/

http://inner-west-courier.whereilive.co ... -hit-home/
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby Aushiker » Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:34 am

I have received a response to my compliant on this mater. It took a second complaint to get a response. Still no apology from the ABC for either the comments nor the failure to handle complaint process properly.


Thank you for your email about a segment on ABC News Breakfast on 7 May.

In accordance with the ABC's complaint handling procedures, your correspondence has been considered by Audience & Consumer Affairs, a unit which is separate to and independent of program making areas within the ABC. The role of Audience & Consumer Affairs is to investigate complaints alleging that ABC content has breached the ABC's editorial standards.

Following an interview with Garry Brennan from Bicycle Network Victoria, hosts Michael Rowland and Karina Carvalho suggested that cyclists should share the blame for ‘dooring’ incidents. This was incorrect.

Accordingly, ABC News broadcast the following correction on the News Breakfast program on 10 May at 7.45am:

Now we just need to make a clarification about a story we brought you earlier this week.

On Monday, our reporter Simon Lauder interviewed Garry Brennan from Bicycle Network Victoria about a campaign to increase fines for motorists who open their car doors into the path of cyclists.

After the interview, we suggested that cyclists should share some of the blame for ‘dooring’ incidents. The law states that this is incorrect.

In every ‘dooring’ incident it is the fault of the person opening the door for not exercising due care.

We were, however, trying to make the general point that both motorists and cyclists need more education about road safety.

The incorrect information was removed from the online video, and an Editor’s Note added to explain the amendment. The incorrect material was removed to ensure that the original error was not compounded.

In addition, a correction was also posted on the News Corrections and Clarifications webpage at:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/corrections/ .

In response to your concerns about the ABC News Breakfast facebook page, we note that the correction also features on the facebook page, along with 90 comments from audience members.

In view of the steps taken by ABC News to correct the error, Audience & Consumer Affairs consider this matter to be resolved.

Thank you for bringing this to our attention, and please be assured your comments have been brought to the attention of ABC News Management. For your reference, the ABC Code of Practice is available here: http://www.abc.net.au/corp/pubs/documen ... ce2011.pdf. Should you be dissatisfied with this response, you may be able to pursue your complaint with the Australian Communications and Media Authority (http://www.acma.gov.au).

Yours sincerely

Lauren Crozier`
ABC Audience & Consumer Affairs
Andrew

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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby human909 » Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:08 pm

*Or it might be the fault of the Mayor of Melbourne!
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