Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby queequeg » Tue May 08, 2012 5:26 pm

From the ABC News Corrections Page:

*
Dooring cyclists

Posted 4 hours 38 minutes ago

News Breakfast: On May 7, the program interviewed Garry Brennan from Bicycle Network Victoria about a campaign to increase fines for motorists who open their car doors into the path of cyclists. After the interview we suggested that cyclists should share some of the blame for ‘dooring’ incidents. The law states that this is incorrect. In every ‘dooring’ incident it is the fault of the person opening the door for not exercising due care.
*


Already lodged complaints with ABC & MediaWatch (ironically also ABC). They have already reposted the video, minus the presenters having their chit-chat. Clearly more than a few people complaining!
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by BNA » Tue May 08, 2012 5:33 pm

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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby Aushiker » Tue May 08, 2012 5:33 pm

queequeg wrote:Already lodged complaints with ABC & MediaWatch (ironically also ABC). They have already reposted the video, minus the presenters having their chit-chat. Clearly more than a few people complaining!


That is a positive outcome but a formal apology is still required in my view.

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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby jules21 » Tue May 08, 2012 5:34 pm

in their defence, it appeared to be an honest, if stupid, mistake. they seem to have heard garry brennan talk about all crashes automatically being motorists' fault and went on their rant, probably missing the 'subtlety' that he was referring only to doorings.

from what i'm told (don't listen to it, perpetuating rumour only), a lot worse is said about cyclists by shock jocks.
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby G-Ride » Tue May 08, 2012 6:03 pm

After the interview we suggested that cyclists should share some of the blame for ‘dooring’ incidents. The law states that this is incorrect. In every ‘dooring’ incident it is the fault of the person opening the door for not exercising due care

Correct as the law sits.

The presenter appeared to allude to "real world" scenario where some blame should be taken by cyclists. In my view also correct even if as Jules notes possibly slightly out of context.

As I said clumsily done and as we see outside the ABC guidelines - but still a valid point.
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby il padrone » Tue May 08, 2012 6:08 pm

jules21 wrote:Gary Brennan - "most drivers are only getting the minimum fine of $122". no they're not, police are reluctant to fine them at all in most cases, based on reports from cyclists i've heard.

Even when someone is killed as a result. Specifically, the BMW madam who doored James Cross last year :evil: .
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby jules21 » Tue May 08, 2012 6:20 pm

il padrone wrote:Even when someone is killed as a result. Specifically, the BMW madam who doored James Cross last year :evil: .

i know someone who was doored recently. he was badly bruised and in pain. went to cops, who didn't want to know him. this is really no different to walking into a Telstra shop and asking to buy a mobile phone, then being told by the salesperson "no".
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby exadios » Tue May 08, 2012 6:31 pm

jules21 wrote:
il padrone wrote:Even when someone is killed as a result. Specifically, the BMW madam who doored James Cross last year :evil: .

i know someone who was doored recently. he was badly bruised and in pain. went to cops, who didn't want to know him. this is really no different to walking into a Telstra shop and asking to buy a mobile phone, then being told by the salesperson "no".


Very different, I would have thought. In the Telstra case the customer does not get a phone. In the dooring case there is a refusal by a government officer to enforce a public law when presented with evidence of a crime. The first case results in a minor inconvenience but the second case results in a corruption of the justice system.
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby ldrcycles » Tue May 08, 2012 6:32 pm

Just lodged a complaint to do my bit. In part: "If i wanted to hear biased, ignorant, inflammatory remarks that put my life in danger, i would watch the commercial TV stations."
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby Mulger bill » Tue May 08, 2012 7:34 pm

ldrcycles wrote:Just lodged a complaint to do my bit. In part: "If i wanted to hear biased, ignorant, inflammatory remarks that put my life in danger, i would watch the commercial TV stations."

That's GOLD that is 8)

'Scuse me, time to vent elsewhere...
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby Mulger bill » Tue May 08, 2012 8:19 pm

Venting done, now the wait for some suitably dismissive response begins.

Mulger bill wrote:Like many people, I prefer to watch ABC news for its lack of the cant that is typically displayed by the commercial "services". I am sure you can understand my horror at the concluding remarks by the news hosts since edited from the end of this article: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-05-08/d ... ts/3998484
Not only did the hosts display an appalling ignorance of Victorian road rule No 269 but their overall dismissive attitude towards a serious road safety problem that has resulted in many Victorian and Australian cyclists including myself (Adderley St, West Melbourne) being injured but has indeed recently been responsible for the death of a young Victorian doing nothing more than trying to get around the city.

I am of the opinion that the editing of the original article to remove these extremely distasteful comments and the very small piece on your corrections page is in no way sufficient redress and request that presenters be made properly aware of the actual facts before comment. After all, this is not The Bolt Report!
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby newbikeorupgrade » Tue May 08, 2012 8:54 pm

il padrone wrote:. Specifically, the BMW madam who doored James Cross last year :evil: .


Bmw woman almost got me too... a theme?
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby G-Ride » Tue May 08, 2012 8:57 pm

I'm a little lost here - so cyclists want to rely on a little known law to protect them whilst they ride within a door width of a parked vehicle with impunity? Help me out - how is the ABC commentary endangering cyclists?
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby Mulger bill » Tue May 08, 2012 9:02 pm

If we have to explain you'll never understand :roll:
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby G-Ride » Tue May 08, 2012 9:04 pm

Indulge me :lol:
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby flyby » Tue May 08, 2012 9:15 pm

Filed a complaint. I'm really disappointed with those presenters, this is a very important issue.
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby Kalgrm » Tue May 08, 2012 9:30 pm

G-Ride wrote:Indulge me :lol:

I believe we already did …
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby Mulger bill » Tue May 08, 2012 9:47 pm

OOoooooK then...

How little known a law is is of no consequence, try using it as a defence in ANY case.

Ask many of the members here who have lived with the extra crap from the mouth breathers in the period shortly after rants by Magda, Shaaaaaayne, Spoondrain et al. It might be hard to believe, but it is an unfortunate fact that these rants are actually taken as life lessons by some. How else can the popularity of Vyle Randihands, the Kardashians and reality TV be reasonably explained?
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Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby Milar » Tue May 08, 2012 10:27 pm

I had an interesting conversation with a lady at work yesterday who was involved in a dooring (she was the driver). Parked on a bend in the road, checked her rear vision and opened the door. A cyclist came around the bend at that moment and dooring was complete. So was she at fault or was he going too fast for the conditions?

Btw, the cyclist was uninjured (according to her) and continued going after they shared points of view without agreement.
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby G-Ride » Tue May 08, 2012 10:32 pm

Thanks Bill. I do see what your getting at and its a fair point. What concerns me (and I genuinely do not direct this at anyone in particular) is the cycling fraternity is also quick to play the "don't blame us" card when the fact of the matter is regardless of any law, cyclists do make mistakes and can indeed to be to blame. The ABC would likely have made amendments because the comments were outside their journalistic guidelines, not because they are worried about how cyclists feel. Hence all that appears to be left are a pile of complaints from cyclists about how bad its is they got blamed for something. I think that's counter productive.

The comment that should have been made by Gary Brennan is yes under the law the driver is at fault but we need to work hard to educate both drivers and cyclists about the danger of that particular situation. I know in WA there is a campaign for a 1 metre spacing rule - I'd like that to apply to cyclists too. But that's a whole other can of worms.

Just my viewpoint and I'll leave it at that. Again thanks for responding.

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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby il padrone » Tue May 08, 2012 10:36 pm

G-Ride wrote:I'm a little lost here - so cyclists want to rely on a little known law to protect them whilst they ride within a door width of a parked vehicle with impunity? Help me out - how is the ABC commentary endangering cyclists?

Most drivers begin to get a bit stroppy when you really ride outside the 'door-zone' :roll:

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Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby RobertFrith » Tue May 08, 2012 10:45 pm

Brennan was interviewing, I don't think there's much scope there for sermonising there. The anchors were killing time and, while no-one expects them to know Vic laws inside out, I think we can all agree they'd have been wise to be in possession of some facts before they started mouthing off, lest they kill more than time... as it is they just looked like a couple of complete blithering idiots to anybody who had even the faintest idea - a total embarrassment to the national broadcaster.
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby jules21 » Tue May 08, 2012 10:51 pm

il padrone wrote:Most drivers begin to get a bit stroppy when you really ride outside the 'door-zone' :roll:

sucks to be them
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby queequeg » Tue May 08, 2012 10:52 pm

G-Ride wrote:I'm a little lost here - so cyclists want to rely on a little known law to protect them whilst they ride within a door width of a parked vehicle with impunity? Help me out - how is the ABC commentary endangering cyclists?


The law does not just apply to opening doors into the path of cyclists (as shown below). However, when Councils go and paint bicycle lanes that encourage less confident cyclists to ride within that door zone, these types of incidents are bound to happen. The difference is that opening a door into the path of a cyclist can easily result in their death. Opening it into the path of a passing car is most likely just going to result in an expensive repair bill, though the liability remains with the driver of the vehicle who opened the door and not with the passing vehicle.

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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby jules21 » Tue May 08, 2012 10:54 pm

that looks like a write-off to me, the body will have been fairly bent out of shape. maybe they should run ads along those lines.. "dooring.. you could write off your car"
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby ft_critical » Tue May 08, 2012 11:11 pm

G-Ride wrote: yes under the law the driver is at fault but we need to work hard to educate both drivers and cyclists about the danger of that particular situation.


I think that this is the key.

I have been doored 1.5 times. Down once and once hit the rear skewer. First time I was filtering watching the parked cars not the cars stopped at the cross walk. My fault. I know better. Don't filter.
Second time was on the edge of the bike lane. 1m is not enough. So I ride the white line. Bang. Full two clicks door open. The guy told me he had been doored as a child and was very sorry.
TG has made the point that it is the law to ride in a bike lane unless it is unsafe to do so. It is alwasy unsafe to ride within 2m of a parked car on an on road bike lane with parked cars to your left. That is 1m for the door and 1m for your reaction. Again TG rightly points out, mostly, it is not the door that kills you, it is the car to your right.

Finally, the few Semi-pro riders I have discussed this with indicate dooring is their biggest concern whilst training. So it is a big issue. But I think the education should be aimed at cyclists, I would hope that they understand they have the most to gain from being careful. Drivers need to understand why cyclists are not riding in the bike lane. I don't think you can educate people to look before they open the door. People have more time to consider why a cyclist is in the road than remember to look in the mirror before opening the door.
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