Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby il padrone » Tue May 08, 2012 11:17 pm

queequeg wrote:Image

Probably go close to being written off :o :lol:
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
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by BNA » Tue May 08, 2012 11:18 pm

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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby Downhill » Tue May 08, 2012 11:18 pm

If adverse comments are made on air, then the retractions should also be made on air. Unfortunately the original statements always have a higher impact and get far more air time than the corrections.

Increasing the fines won't reduce the number of doorings.

Putting a cycle lane immediately adjacent to kerbside parking is very poor planning and extremely dangerous. There should be at least a 1m buffer between the parking bays and the inner edge of the bike lane. Wider would be better, but 1m would be an excellent start. 1m matters on both sides of the bike.

Maybe the best approach would be to ask the media to put the blowtorch on the local authorities responsible for such poor planning, design and infrastructure. They're always looking for a story so they'd probably be receptive to the idea. Personally I'd love to hear such an interview on drive time radio so that it reaches the intended audience.

But after all that - congrats to the ABC and all those involved in producing the original article for raising the issue of doorings. Raspberries to the presenter. :P Phphphphphphp! :P
Last edited by Downhill on Tue May 08, 2012 11:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby il padrone » Tue May 08, 2012 11:26 pm

ft_critical wrote:It is alwasy unsafe to ride within 2m of a parked car on an on road bike lane with parked cars to your left. That is 1m for the door and 1m for your reaction. Again TG rightly points out, mostly, it is not the door that kills you, it is the car to your right.

I have an interesting situation. Mitcham Road, one wide lane. Cars are parked along it, both sides, for over 0.5 kms south of the rail line. Station car parking overflow - this has only developed in the last 2 years. When I ride past everyone is still at work or on the train, no-one is getting out of the cars (well, almost no-one). If I was to ride 2M wide then I would completely block the one lane-width available, and there is always lots of traffic coming through with me as well as oncoming. So far I have ridden about 0.7-1 M wide and keep an eye out for anybody in the drivers seat. This allows traffic to slowly get past me. If I was to ride 2M wide I know I would get horn blasting and aggressive, rash passing attempts.

What do you reckon? Am I taking too much of a risk?
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby trailgumby » Tue May 08, 2012 11:34 pm

Depends on whether it was a slow climb, or flat/desending.

if the former, I'd probably risk it. But if the latter - which means I'd feel the need to ride wider - and I did start to get abuse I'd find a quieter route meself.
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby il padrone » Tue May 08, 2012 11:43 pm

It's a flat road. Really no alternative parallel route.... well there is one that is longer, a good bit hillier and involves a dodgy main road crossing at the end. For the sake of half a km of parked cars it's really not worth it.

I shall have to try doing it riding 2M clear to gauge the response.
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby trailgumby » Tue May 08, 2012 11:53 pm

il padrone wrote:It's a flat road. Really no alternative parallel route.... well there is one that is longer, a good bit hillier and involves a dodgy main road crossing at the end. For the sake of half a km of parked cars it's really not worth it.

I shall have to try doing it riding 2M clear to gauge the response.

Urrrgh. Rock-and-a-hard-place situation. :x

On my old commute I had a section like that for a few k's along Warringah Road from Frenchs Forest to Killarney Heights, albeit more from traffic speeds and driver attitudes than parked cars.

I elected to be naughty and add a few psi to the tyres and ride the footpath. Better a $69 fine than getting hurt.
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby Aushiker » Wed May 09, 2012 12:34 am

Complaint lodged with the ABC. No apology from Mark Scott which is disappointing.

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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby Oxford » Wed May 09, 2012 7:20 am

ip, what if a car occupant is not sitting up and opens the door, ie they bend into the passenger foot well to grab something and at the same time open the door before coming back upright. you will not see them in the drivers seat in that situation. it has happened before and is likely to happen with commuters grabbing bags.
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby m@ » Wed May 09, 2012 9:19 am

So I watched News Breakfast this morning hoping to see an on-air correction... nothing, but then I only caught about 30 minutes altogether. A bit disappointed in the presenters as generally I've found they're pretty good, certainly better than their predecessors. As someone mentioned earlier, the most forgiving interpretation is that they misunderstood the interviewee's comments as implying drivers were at fault in all car-bike incidents, but if so they should pay closer attention before commenting ;) An interesting angle would be to turn this into a discussion on strict liability, but with the budget release there's probably buckley's chance of that getting a run.

They're both on twitter: http://twitter.com/#mjrowland68 and http://twitter.com/#karina_carv. Maybe a direct approach would attract more attention than the ABC complaints department?
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby Aushiker » Wed May 09, 2012 9:27 am

m@ wrote:They're both on twitter: http://twitter.com/#mjrowland68 and http://twitter.com/#karina_carv. Maybe a direct approach would attract more attention than the ABC complaints department?


Was hopping for to hear of an apology as well. No word on Twitter at least. Twittered both this morning and @abcmarkscott. I guess they simply plan to weather it out. Sad really as it shows so little respect to the families of those killed.

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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby RobertFrith » Wed May 09, 2012 12:20 pm

G-Ride wrote:I'm a little lost here - so cyclists want to rely on a little known law to protect them whilst they ride within a door width of a parked vehicle with impunity? Help me out - how is the ABC commentary endangering cyclists?

When it comes to the law ignorance is not regarded as an excuse. The ABC presenters, ignorant themselves (gotta wonder what they were doing while the Brennan interview was running,they certainly weren't listening!), were clouding the waters that Brennan had just cleared.
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby ausrandoman » Wed May 09, 2012 2:15 pm

When I go past parked cars, I always leave a door width of clearance so that even if someone wants to door me deliberately, they can't.

I use a rear-vision mirror on my helmet (LOL, pfft, hubbard, Fred, uncool, what about "The Rules", I'm not listening to this old fart lalalala) so that, when I want to go wide and occupy a lane, I can slot in to a gap in the following traffic (almost always), wait for a gap (sometimes) or get the hell out of the way (very rarely).

I've never been doored. Never come close to being doored. I've never been seriously harassed by anyone in following traffic.
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby il padrone » Wed May 09, 2012 5:36 pm

Oxford wrote:ip, what if a car occupant is not sitting up and opens the door, ie they bend into the passenger foot well to grab something and at the same time open the door before coming back upright. you will not see them in the drivers seat in that situation. it has happened before and is likely to happen with commuters grabbing bags.

Tried riding wider, about 1.5M, and the traffic seemed to cope. Some overtook, where safe; others stayed behind until there was a space. I felt better.
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby trailgumby » Wed May 09, 2012 5:53 pm

Sounds promising :D
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby jbm » Wed May 09, 2012 10:55 pm

Thank you to all the posters that brought the irresponsible comments from those presenters to the attention of ABC management.

That was very irresponsible journalism by the desk jockeys, you could see the male presenter wanted to pounce on his point the moment it cut back to the studio. These presenters are not paid to be shock jocks, and they are highly trained to get to where they are today but maybe they should stick to reading the teleprompter. What is it with these people? I have only been riding for a bit over a year and have lost count of the number of people who feel the need to educate me as to why they hate cyclists, some seem to get fired up at the mere sight of a Lycra clad individual.

One thing we all need to remember is how much space we need to stop our bikes, we do not stop as quickly as a modern car.I would say you need well over 20 meters to stop when a door opens suddenly. Even looking for all the signs such as head, reverse lights flicking, brake lights going off you still get the odd fright.
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby Marto » Wed May 09, 2012 11:23 pm

Here is an example of a well-timed car door opening without checking. It was easy to guess this guy wouldn't check, as he looked in a rush. I moved right when I saw what this guy was up to. Note the position of the bottom left corner of the video frame relative to the painted line on the road.

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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby newbikeorupgrade » Thu May 10, 2012 9:53 pm

This poor girl got doored by a car door that didn't even open.
She was lucky she didn't end up squashed to death underneath the car.
Guess the ABC think its her fault? Just trying to get home...
I think we should invite the ABC reporters to be Doored and knocked into an on coming car?
We can see what they say then? We can put some salt on the wounds...

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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby elStado » Thu May 10, 2012 9:56 pm

Article by Alan Davies on the topic: http://blogs.crikey.com.au/theurbanist/ ... o-cycling/
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby AUbicycles » Thu May 10, 2012 10:56 pm

I have a word to say on it here: ABC News Turning Tabloid on Cyclists Rights

Pretty disappointed to hear this type of banter on the ABC and I feel the the presenters hadn't seen the report nor were properly listening when the report ran, rather tuned into the last bit and missed the point and context. In general there are also bad cyclists out there, absolutely, but the context here was so clearly laid out and the presenters were careless and irresponsible with comments that go out to a large nationwide audience.
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby diggler » Thu May 10, 2012 11:52 pm

if we want to educate drivers, we really should wear shirts which have on the back

CAR

DOORS

KILL
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby PawPaw » Fri May 11, 2012 12:23 am

Have thought about it for a bit, and the only occasion I can think of a motorist not being responsible for a dooring is when a cyclist doesn't use a headlight at night. I wonder if that's what was going through the ABC host's mind?
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby il padrone » Fri May 11, 2012 7:41 am

Nup. More likely this was going through his mind.

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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby Mike Ayling » Fri May 11, 2012 9:16 am

ausrandoman wrote:When I go past parked cars, I always leave a door width of clearance so that even if someone wants to door me deliberately, they can't.

I use a rear-vision mirror on my helmet (LOL, pfft, hubbard, Fred, uncool, what about "The Rules", I'm not listening to this old fart lalalala) so that, when I want to go wide and occupy a lane, I can slot in to a gap in the following traffic (almost always), wait for a gap (sometimes) or get the hell out of the way (very rarely).

I've never been doored. Never come close to being doored. I've never been seriously harassed by anyone in following traffic.


+1

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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby roller » Fri May 11, 2012 10:03 am

maybe we should make it illegal for cyclists to ride in the door zone

that way it's not the cyclists fault they're out there on the road getting in the way of traffic.

it's the government!

then the cyclists would be in the "us" as opposed to "them" in the eyes of motorists.

*hmmm*

could be that mighty strong coffee i had this morning.
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby hazmat5765 » Fri May 11, 2012 10:18 am

ausrandoman wrote:When I go past parked cars, I always leave a door width of clearance so that even if someone wants to door me deliberately, they can't.

I use a rear-vision mirror on my helmet (LOL, pfft, hubbard, Fred, uncool, what about "The Rules", I'm not listening to this old fart lalalala) so that, when I want to go wide and occupy a lane, I can slot in to a gap in the following traffic (almost always), wait for a gap (sometimes) or get the hell out of the way (very rarely).

I've never been doored. Never come close to being doored. I've never been seriously harassed by anyone in following traffic.

+2 . A good - common sense & ride to the conditions - post ausrandoman.
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