Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

open topic, for anything cycling related.

Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby Jono L. » Sat May 12, 2012 4:02 pm

m@ wrote:So I watched News Breakfast this morning hoping to see an on-air correction... nothing, but then I only caught about 30 minutes altogether. A bit disappointed in the presenters as generally I've found they're pretty good, certainly better than their predecessors. As someone mentioned earlier, the most forgiving interpretation is that they misunderstood the interviewee's comments as implying drivers were at fault in all car-bike incidents, but if so they should pay closer attention before commenting ;) An interesting angle would be to turn this into a discussion on strict liability, but with the budget release there's probably buckley's chance of that getting a run.

They're both on twitter: http://twitter.com/#mjrowland68 and http://twitter.com/#karina_carv. Maybe a direct approach would attract more attention than the ABC complaints department?

Agreed.

Evenn moreso, if TV presenters are going to 'swagger' in and put their comments out there then they better bloody well know exactly what they are commenting on. It's their job for crissake :!:
Jono L.
 
Posts: 176
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:12 pm

by BNA » Sun May 13, 2012 10:11 am

BNA
 

Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Sun May 13, 2012 10:11 am

G-Ride wrote:Little wrong with that at all. To blame all incidents on motorists is just plain wrong - admittedly the quest for balance at the end was clumsy but the point was valid.

No-one is blaming motorists for ALL incidents but it does clearly allocate the total blame to them in this case.

And why shouldn't it? Pls give me some sort of even half-plausible scenario in which a driver would NOT be wholly culpable? Perhaps there is some disability issue somewhere but even in that case it is encumbent then to address an inability to check behind.

The journos concerned let another agenda on cyclists that they appear to have (hell, I have the same agenda) cross over into an unrelated matter. They were jerks who detracted from an otherwise good piece of public comment.
Unchain yourself - Ride a unicycle .Image
User avatar
ColinOldnCranky
 
Posts: 4649
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:58 pm

Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Sun May 13, 2012 10:29 am

ft_critical wrote:I don't think you can educate people to look before they open the door.


Why not? If you were to talk to a dozen people at a bbq (and could get them to focus for a moment on the point you are making before heading into "cyclists should be registered" etc) and suggested that opening the door with the opposite hand results in them better seeing the passing motorist or cyclist, most of them will have never thought about it before and most will see the sense in it. After being made aware it just has to be ingrained. Public awareness programs do this effectively where the messages are simple and unarguable. I think opening with the opposite hand fits both requirements.
Unchain yourself - Ride a unicycle .Image
User avatar
ColinOldnCranky
 
Posts: 4649
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:58 pm

Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby jules21 » Sun May 13, 2012 11:47 am

i agree that it is unlikely you can educate most people.

low consequences for them + low probability of occurrence = not likely to register on people's radar

people focus on priority issues, trying to convince them to focus on something that is unlikely to ever impact on or involve them is not usually a winning strategy.
Image
User avatar
jules21
 
Posts: 8560
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:14 pm
Location: deep in the pain cave

Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby flyby » Sun May 13, 2012 12:12 pm

jules21 wrote:i agree that it is unlikely you can educate most people.

low consequences for them + low probability of occurrence = not likely to register on people's radar

people focus on priority issues, trying to convince them to focus on something that is unlikely to ever impact on or involve them is not usually a winning strategy.


that's why you make the consequences worth talking about - if someone gets a $1000 fine and gets docked a huge number of demerit points they'll tell their friends, and their friends will tell their friends...
flyby
 
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:52 pm

Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby PB12IN » Sun May 13, 2012 5:16 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote:Pls give me some sort of even half-plausible scenario in which a driver would NOT be wholly culpable? Perhaps there is some disability issue somewhere but even in that case it is encumbent then to address an inability to check behind.


Who here hasn't seen a ninja out on a dark night, that could be a reason, driver checks but cant see said idiot = dooring that is wholly cyclists fault!
PB12IN
 
Posts: 269
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:34 pm
Location: Gold Coast

Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby Chris249 » Sun May 13, 2012 8:55 pm

deleted.
Last edited by Chris249 on Mon May 14, 2012 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There are many types of racing cyclists. There is the sprinter, the rouleur, the stagiaire, the danser, the descender.... sadly, I'm a mediocre. :-(

2003 Cervelo P2K time trial bike
2010 Merida Cyclocross 4
2008 Giant SS/track
2008 Vivente Como roadie
Chris249
 
Posts: 530
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 12:36 pm

Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby Wayfarer » Sun May 13, 2012 11:48 pm

Maybe his next story will be about his girlfriend, who repeatedly pounded her face against his fist, then tripped over his gun. It's her own fault she got beat up and shot? Argh, darn moron
What are these salesmen peddling?
User avatar
Wayfarer
 
Posts: 1225
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:39 pm
Location: SW Sydney

Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby alexf » Mon May 14, 2012 9:49 am

PB12IN wrote:Who here hasn't seen a ninja out on a dark night, that could be a reason, driver checks but cant see said idiot = dooring that is wholly cyclists fault!


Then cyclist would not be riding legally and I imagine that the law will find in favour of the driver.
alexf
 
Posts: 268
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:55 pm

Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby Peacewise » Tue May 15, 2012 11:24 am

rode/worked about 9 hours a day for 5 years as an adelaide bike courier, never got doored because i checked for driver heads and gave myself space. often enough i took 1 to 2 m from parked cars regardless of driver head. i copped a bit of abuse rarely, but im still here.

laws and fines do sweet fa for preventing dooring, its our responsibility as riders to make ourselves safe.

if a rider hasnt the confidence to take the whole lane for safety sake, when required, thats the riders lack imo, that includes blind bends/corners, heavy traffic or single lane situations.

Own the road... and ride safe.

Im a polite rider, but not at expense of safety.
Keep flexing, spinning, rolling, coasting, pushing, pulling, drafting, sprinting, time trialling, touring, climbing, descending, hot dogging, crit-ing, racing, weaving, dodging, dropping, tanking, chasing... but most of all - just keep f'ing riding!
Peacewise
 
Posts: 164
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:52 am
Location: Mt Barker, South Australia

Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby Undertow » Tue May 15, 2012 12:40 pm

Peacewise wrote:if a rider hasnt the confidence to take the whole lane for safety sake, when required, thats the riders lack imo, that includes blind bends/corners, heavy traffic or single lane situations.


I dislike riding with my girlfriend around parked cars because she's afraid that taking the lane might aggravate traffic behind her, so she rides really close to the parked cars, doesn't matter how much I explain that it's unsafe. And by really close I mean she's no more than about 20cm from their mirrors. I'm kinda surprised that she hasn't been doored yet.
Image
Undertow
 
Posts: 270
Joined: Sat May 29, 2010 12:25 pm


Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby ldrcycles » Thu May 17, 2012 7:08 pm

:shock: . A reasonably well written, unbiased and informative article? What's going on! Does not compute!
When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments- Elizabeth West.
User avatar
ldrcycles
 
Posts: 6387
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:19 pm
Location: Kin Kin, Queensland

Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby KenGS » Thu May 17, 2012 8:27 pm

ldrcycles wrote::shock: . A reasonably well written, unbiased and informative article? What's going on! Does not compute!

One of the comments:
They shouldn't be riding bikes on the road. It repeatedly causes accidents which would otherwise be avoidable.

The universe is back in equilibrium
--Ken
Helmets! Bells! Rego!
User avatar
KenGS
 
Posts: 1442
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:31 pm
Location: Rosanna, Victoria

Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby gauchoracer » Fri May 18, 2012 7:18 pm

Grrrrrrrr...??..???...!!!!!!!!......
I just watched that article from the home page from ABC Morning News, and was thinking, well put, well reasoned, common sense, not after everyone, just the ones who door cyclists... 8) :D :D 8)
Then I got to the end, and to whatever his name is, (the presenter, who "LOVES Everyone..."), maybe someone should grab that bag of salt that he so Lovingly wants to take with his news story, and rub it into the wounds he sustains from getting collected by a car while riding a bicycle.... :x :x :x :x :x :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
"Unfair to purely blame motorists 100% of the time..." Well of course it is, I guess 50% of the time, cyclists open someone else's car door just before they ride into it... :? :? :? :? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Thank you... end of rant... :) :D
As they say on the "Streets of San Francisco, "Lets be careful out there... "

Max...
(and yes, I do feel better, thank you... )
Rule No 1: Have Fun.
07 Avanti Blade Comp.
08 Teschner Piuma SL.
10 Norco Storm MTB.
Image
gauchoracer
 
Posts: 431
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:49 pm
Location: Liverpool, Sydney

Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby ldrcycles » Sun May 20, 2012 8:54 pm

Received this from the ABC in response to my complaint (i'm assuming the others who complained will have received/be receiving something very similar).

Thank you for your email about a segment on ABC News Breakfast on 7 May.



In accordance with the ABC's complaint handling procedures, your correspondence has been considered by Audience & Consumer Affairs, a unit which is separate to and independent of program making areas within the ABC. The role of Audience & Consumer Affairs is to investigate complaints alleging that ABC content has breached the ABC's editorial standards.



We understand you are concerned that, following an interview with Garry Brennan from Bicycle Network Victoria, hosts Michael Rowland and Karina Carvalho suggested that cyclists should share the blame for ‘dooring’ incidents. This was incorrect.



Accordingly, ABC News broadcast the following correction on the News Breakfast program on 10 May at 7.45am:



Now we just need to make a clarification about a story we brought you earlier this week.



On Monday, our reporter Simon Lauder interviewed Garry Brennan from Bicycle Network Victoria about a campaign to increase fines for motorists who open their car doors into the path of cyclists.



After the interview, we suggested that cyclists should share some of the blame for ‘dooring’ incidents. The law states that this is incorrect.

In every ‘dooring’ incident it is the fault of the person opening the door for not exercising due care.

We were, however, trying to make the general point that both motorists and cyclists need more education about road safety.

A correction was also posted on the News Corrections and Clarifications webpage at:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/corrections/ .

In view of the steps taken by ABC News to correct the error, Audience & Consumer Affairs consider this matter to be resolved.

Thank you for bringing this to our attention, and please be assured your comments have been brought to the attention of ABC News Management. For your reference, the ABC Code of Practice is available here: http://www.abc.net.au/corp/pubs/documen ... ce2011.pdf . Should you be dissatisfied with this response, you may be able to pursue your complaint with the Australian Communications and Media Authority ( http://www.acma.gov.au ).

Yours sincerely

Lauren Crozier

ABC Audience & Consumer Affairs
When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments- Elizabeth West.
User avatar
ldrcycles
 
Posts: 6387
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:19 pm
Location: Kin Kin, Queensland

Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Sun May 20, 2012 11:05 pm

PB12IN wrote:
ColinOldnCranky wrote:Pls give me some sort of even half-plausible scenario in which a driver would NOT be wholly culpable? Perhaps there is some disability issue somewhere but even in that case it is encumbent then to address an inability to check behind.


Who here hasn't seen a ninja out on a dark night, that could be a reason, driver checks but cant see said idiot = dooring that is wholly cyclists fault!

Yeah, good call. I am guilty of a narrow focus. Another has been alluded to since my post on those who duck back into the line that parkers take for fear of traffic and then pull out just before they pass the parked car.

Regardless of what the interviewee says that the law makes no allowance for the driver to defend his action, I have faith that a magistrate would throw it out regardless. Most regs do not state the outs anyway, the presiding legal officer determines those on a case by cae basis. In only the rarest of legislation do the parliamentary draftsmen remove all discretion (though it is happening more).
Unchain yourself - Ride a unicycle .Image
User avatar
ColinOldnCranky
 
Posts: 4649
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:58 pm

Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby Mulger bill » Sun May 20, 2012 11:45 pm

ldrcycles wrote:Received this from the ABC in response to my complaint (i'm assuming the others who complained will have received/be receiving something very similar).


Yep. Form letter.
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
London Boy 29/12/2011
User avatar
Mulger bill
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 25569
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:41 pm
Location: Sunbury Vic

Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby find_bruce » Mon May 21, 2012 5:23 pm

ldrcycles wrote:Received this from the ABC in response to my complaint (i'm assuming the others who complained will have received/be receiving something very similar).

Mulger bill wrote:Yep. Form letter.

I wanted to say you were unduly cynical :D, but then today I received the same email, word for word. I am still happy because the ABC's stuff up appears to have generated more publicity that the 3 or 4 people who actually watch the drivel.
Image
User avatar
find_bruce
 
Posts: 3578
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 8:42 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby jules21 » Mon May 21, 2012 5:27 pm

as someone who has been the 'letter writer' in a former job, there's nothing wrong with form letters if they address your concern. it's an inefficient use of employees' time to redraft perfectly good letters, just to give them a personal touch.
Image
User avatar
jules21
 
Posts: 8560
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:14 pm
Location: deep in the pain cave

Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby trailgumby » Mon May 21, 2012 7:47 pm

Don't mind the form letter, which I have also received. However, I do take exception to the following:
We were, however, trying to make the general point that both motorists and cyclists need more education about road safety.

Yeah, sure you were. If I want to have my intelligence insulted I'll buy the Daily Telegraph, thanks.
"People have a right to their own opinions, but not their own facts. Evidence must be located, not created, and opinions not backed by evidence cannot be given much weight." -- James W Loewen

http://www.facebook.com/Drive2WorkDay
User avatar
trailgumby
 
Posts: 10204
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:30 pm
Location: Northern Beaches, Sydney

Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby RobertFrith » Mon May 21, 2012 9:47 pm

Haven't got mine yet. It's a bit of a Clayton's apology, it's exactly the sort of stuff my 8 yo does when I suggest he apologise for something - "Mum, I really sorry for screaming at you... But (I'm paraphrasing) I had a pretty good justification blah blah blah".

The significant bit they didn't apologise for was the smug superiority. I'll be writing back asking for more!
Image
User avatar
RobertFrith
 
Posts: 1234
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 9:27 pm
Location: Perth

Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby AUbicycles » Mon May 21, 2012 10:10 pm

I havn't heard back yet and after seeing the answers am disappointed but realistically, what do I expect? Well not very much.

Waste of time giving it much further though, though a small bit of hope that they received enough complaints that form letters will clear the issue though they can be more cautious on camera with their candid banter.
User avatar
AUbicycles
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8918
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:14 am
Location: Sydney

Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby JV911 » Wed May 23, 2012 8:16 am

2 articles in today's local paper - Leichhardt council is spending $35k on a dooring awareness campaign

New open door policy helps cyclists

http://inner-west-courier.whereilive.co ... -cyclists/

http://inner-west-courier.whereilive.co ... -hit-home/
<---LACC--->
<---BMC SLR01--->

User avatar
JV911
 
Posts: 5451
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:22 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby Aushiker » Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:34 am

I have received a response to my compliant on this mater. It took a second complaint to get a response. Still no apology from the ABC for either the comments nor the failure to handle complaint process properly.



Thank you for your email about a segment on ABC News Breakfast on 7 May.

In accordance with the ABC's complaint handling procedures, your correspondence has been considered by Audience & Consumer Affairs, a unit which is separate to and independent of program making areas within the ABC. The role of Audience & Consumer Affairs is to investigate complaints alleging that ABC content has breached the ABC's editorial standards.

Following an interview with Garry Brennan from Bicycle Network Victoria, hosts Michael Rowland and Karina Carvalho suggested that cyclists should share the blame for ‘dooring’ incidents. This was incorrect.

Accordingly, ABC News broadcast the following correction on the News Breakfast program on 10 May at 7.45am:

Now we just need to make a clarification about a story we brought you earlier this week.

On Monday, our reporter Simon Lauder interviewed Garry Brennan from Bicycle Network Victoria about a campaign to increase fines for motorists who open their car doors into the path of cyclists.

After the interview, we suggested that cyclists should share some of the blame for ‘dooring’ incidents. The law states that this is incorrect.

In every ‘dooring’ incident it is the fault of the person opening the door for not exercising due care.

We were, however, trying to make the general point that both motorists and cyclists need more education about road safety.

The incorrect information was removed from the online video, and an Editor’s Note added to explain the amendment. The incorrect material was removed to ensure that the original error was not compounded.

In addition, a correction was also posted on the News Corrections and Clarifications webpage at:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/corrections/ .

In response to your concerns about the ABC News Breakfast facebook page, we note that the correction also features on the facebook page, along with 90 comments from audience members.

In view of the steps taken by ABC News to correct the error, Audience & Consumer Affairs consider this matter to be resolved.

Thank you for bringing this to our attention, and please be assured your comments have been brought to the attention of ABC News Management. For your reference, the ABC Code of Practice is available here: http://www.abc.net.au/corp/pubs/documen ... ce2011.pdf . Should you be dissatisfied with this response, you may be able to pursue your complaint with the Australian Communications and Media Authority ( http://www.acma.gov.au ).

Yours sincerely

Lauren Crozier`
ABC Audience & Consumer Affairs


Andrew
"Pedal-pounding pounce" - D. Fluellen - West Australian 13/1/14
Image
User avatar
Aushiker
 
Posts: 19974
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:55 pm
Location: Fremantle, WA

PreviousNext

Return to General discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bakks, CalvinAndHobbes, Dimma, pauls51, Shred931, SuperDan, tomness, westab



Popular Bike Shops
Torpedo 7 Torpedo7 AU
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Ebay Ebay AU



InTouch with BNA
“Bicycles BNA Twitter
“Bicycles BNA Facebook
“Google+ BNA Google+
“Bicycles BNA Newsletter