Strava lawsuit?

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Strava lawsuit?

Postby Ross » Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:12 pm

http://inrng.tumblr.com/post/25376817898/strava-lawsuit


[quoteJ]une 18, 2012

Strava lawsuit?

Text below from the San Francisco Chronicle / SFGate.com

The parents of an Oakland bicyclist killed while speeding down a hill in Tilden Park two years ago plan to file a negligence lawsuit Monday in San Francisco against a Mission Street outfit that allows weekend athletes to use GPS to compare their racing times online.

“If they are going to host events, give away prizes and draw in users to get the fastest times, then someone should at least come out and see that the routes are safe,” said Susan Kang, attorney for the family of William “Kim” Flint, the 41-year-old electrical engineer who died in the bicycling accident June 19, 2010.

Kang says Flint was “obsessed” with the bike-times website maintained by Strava Inc., the company being named in the lawsuit. He had learned the night before he died that someone using the site had beaten his record “King of the Mountain” time on the same hill, she said.

Flint was going more than 40 mph down South Park Drive in the East Bay hills park when he suddenly braked to avoid hitting a car, causing his bike to flip and throwing him to the pavement. He was pronounced dead at a hospital.

Just two weeks earlier, after having broken the Strava record, Flint wrote on Twitter: “49.3 mph, on a bike. How I find religion on Sunday morning.”

According to Kang, the accident has parallels to the case of Chris Bucchere, the bicyclist charged in San Francisco last week with felony vehicular manslaughter for running down a 71-year-old pedestrian in the Castro. Prosecutors say the crash happened at the end of a ride in which Bucchere was tracking his time on Strava. “We don’t have a comment,” said Rachel Parsons, Strava’s marketing vice president, when asked Friday about the pending suit and the Bucchere case.

Incidentally, the Flint family’s lawsuit doesn’t specify the exact damages. But Kang says, “It will not be a small amount.”

(Source: sfgate.com)
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by BNA » Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:23 pm

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Re: Strava lawsuit?

Postby wombatK » Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:23 pm

Good grief. When are people going to be responsible for their own acts ?

Most electrical engineers have suffered greatly at the hands of lawyers
and bean-counters over the length of this guy's career. He should be rolling
in his grave at the prospect of the fortune people are about to hand to
the lawyers.
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Re: Strava lawsuit?

Postby yarravalleyplodder » Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:24 pm

only in america
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Re: Strava lawsuit?

Postby bollo » Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:24 pm

when will there arrogant Americans take responsibility for there own actions ?
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Strava lawsuit?

Postby Kenzo » Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:08 pm

Maybe we should stop talking about commuter cup racing too?
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Re: Strava lawsuit?

Postby hosko » Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:21 pm

Well technically he was responsible for his actions and he paid in full for them already. No one can deny that.

It sounds like his parents on the other hand seem to think he was not of sound mind to be doing such irrational riding and the riding group and Strava was the cause of it all.

In America, you obviously can bring on a lawsuit for something like that, only in America of course.
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Re: Strava lawsuit?

Postby queequeg » Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:08 pm

I'm confused.....the article says someone beat his "King of the Mountain" time.

I was under the impression that KOM generally involved going uphill, not downhill.
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Re: Strava lawsuit?

Postby familyguy » Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:25 pm

Dork of the Mountain doesn't have the same ring to it. Why would you try a land speed record on public road for one? And why does anyone even entertain these stupid lawsuits?

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Re: Strava lawsuit?

Postby Mulger bill » Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:03 am

Lawyers must be rubbing their hands at the prospect of a new Maserati...
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: Strava lawsuit?

Postby Christine Tham » Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:03 am

queequeg wrote:I'm confused.....the article says someone beat his "King of the Mountain" time.

I was under the impression that KOM generally involved going uphill, not downhill.


Me too.

50 mph on a bike (around 80 kmh)? Easy - just find the right road - I achieve that regularly on Roseville bridge.

And the idea of trying to set a Strava downhill record - isn't the best solution to put on weight? :-)

And those Strava records are meaningless anyway, because those segments are arbitrary and not everyone logs their ride to Strava. For example, when I first joined Strava, I managed to achieve a few QOMs (I didn't even realise what they were until someone pointed them out to me) and one of them was me chasing a guy who was actually faster than me.
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Strava lawsuit?

Postby singlespeedscott » Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:06 am

40mph (64kph) is really not that fast. In most 60 zones you probably wouldn't even get booked in your car for that. I think his parents really should have a hard think about why they are taking this law suite up.
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Re: Strava lawsuit?

Postby jcjordan » Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:30 am

Actually no, not only in America.

We only just fall behind the US in a per head number of civil lawsuits. For some reason our media don't report it as much hut we have had cases like this here in Australia.

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Re: Strava lawsuit?

Postby bardygrub » Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:51 am

yarravalleyplodder wrote:only in america


Ohh, i was going to say that once i read the this post then scrolled down and seen this! I second that!
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Re: Strava lawsuit?

Postby bardygrub » Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:07 am

jcjordan wrote:Actually no, not only in America.

We only just fall behind the US in a per head number of civil lawsuits. For some reason our media don't report it as much hut we have had cases like this here in Australia.

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Yes you are right but... dont quote me on this and i might not have the following terminology incorrect but there is a scale of 1 to 60 in australia. And it goes something like this, If you are walking down a foot path and you trip over a part of the footpath that has not been kept in a proper state by the council, and you twist your ankle then yes you can sue the council but you will fall under the scale of 1 in the possible 60, which would be approx 500 $.
The other end of the scale would be something on the lines of Malpractice from a medical practitioner or Hospital that deliberatly caused death or a lifelong injury where the patiant can no longer look after themselves or the family ect. That would score a 60 which could be around the 7 mill mark. The scale was introduced some years back in Aus to stop silly law suites claiming for ridiculas amounts of money ect. This type of law suit i am currently going through for my 2 year old son.

Again dont quote me on the above but its something like that.

But i dont agree with suing strada thats for sure!!

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Re: Strava lawsuit?

Postby nayfen » Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:40 am

Strava should counter the lawsuit on the grounds that the parents breed such a stupid child and for not properly supervising the said stupid child. I believe that this incident is not worthy of a court hearing but a Darwin award.
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Re: Strava lawsuit?

Postby Oxford » Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:02 am

Can't say I am surprised by it. Strava does seem to bring out the worst in some people. Despite what people might think, it is actually a very interesting case and I'm curious to see how it pans out.
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Re: Strava lawsuit?

Postby Kenzo » Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:37 am

Oxford wrote:Can't say I am surprised by it. Strava does seem to bring out the worst in some people. Despite what people might think, it is actually a very interesting case and I'm curious to see how it pans out.

V8 racing on TV brings out the worse in people too... can we sue the race promotors if a hoon kills himself while trying to do a PB on a mountain road?
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Re: Strava lawsuit?

Postby Mulger bill » Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:50 am

Ross wrote:http://inrng.tumblr.com/post/25376817898/strava-lawsuit


June 18, 2012

Strava lawsuit?

Text below from the San Francisco Chronicle / SFGate.com

...the 41-year-old electrical engineer who died in the bicycling accident June 19, 2010.
How did he manage to get to that age???

...when he suddenly braked to avoid hitting a car, causing his bike to flip and throwing him to the pavement...
Sue the car driver for forcing the deceased to take expert action to avoid collision?
Sue the maker of the Gruppo/GroupSan/BroSet for making powerful front brakes?

(Source: sfgate.com)



Come on peoples, there's a lot more cash to be made here. Get some half way decent shysters... :roll:
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Re: Strava lawsuit?

Postby dagadgetman » Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:29 am

It's OK to say only in America, but I seem to remember reading somewhere that NSW is second in the world to California in litigations. As it is there, so shall it be here. Our leaders and marketers can't wait until we are totally US-ified. Sad for the man who died, but MOM n POP obviously have an eye for the $$$.
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Re: Strava lawsuit?

Postby trailgumby » Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:45 am

The lawsuit is one of the consequences of allowing "no win, no fee" legal representation in compensation cases. I'd suggest it is an ambit claim. They'd be hoping Strava settles.

This death is one of the reasons the nobmob.com/global-riders.net site owner doesn't allow "hot laps" of downhill ride sections on his site(s), especially on-road. He doesn't want to encourage dangerous behaviour. How you would moderate that on a site as big as strava I have no idea. Maybe some automated rules based on terrain?
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Re: Strava lawsuit?

Postby Parrott » Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:53 am

The litigants in cases like these should be publicly vilified for their bare faced greed. This is an obvious cash grab :x

The result of this sort of action is more legislation cutting down on personal freedom and the perpetuation of the nanny state we have become.

As has been already said, the bloke was at fault and he has paid already, that should be the end of it. The rest of us who can enjoy strava sensibly shouldn't have that curtailed because of the greed of these people.

Hope they lose and get slugged with costs :x
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Re: Strava lawsuit?

Postby jasonc » Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:57 am

+1 to darwin award nominee

a workmate and i traded times down coot-tha. this was the slip lane down the front. ie no traffic. common sense has to apply.
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Re: Strava lawsuit?

Postby rogan » Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:13 pm

Strava allows reporting of segments as dangerous. No idea what the procedure is once reported. I would be amazed if they have not anticipated at least the possibility of such claims.

In Australia, among other things (such as showing that strava owes its members a duty of care when they are out on the road) they would have to prove that strava "caused" the death. Under Australian law, relatives in a situation like this can only lodge a compensation to relatives claim (ie. if the cyclist supported or meaningfully contributed financially to the household) or a "nervous shock" claim - there are a whole bunch of rules around that too. The other possibility, an estate claim by the executor of the deceased's will, would not normally apply in the case as reported.

The more usual situation is a direct civil claim by an injured person. I am not aware of a claim against strava in such a situation - although serious injuries incurred whilst in pursuit of KOMs have undoubtedly occurred somewhere in the world.

The real issue is whether there is any causative link between the dreaded "Uh oh [some guy] beat your KOM by 2 seconds" notification and the incident which led to the death of this cyclist. Even if the cyclist was in fact pursuing the KOM (he may well have been, but evidence has to establish this on the balance of probabilities), it would be hard to establish under our law that strava "caused" him to ride in a manner unsafe or unsuitable for the conditions.

I will ignore all the nasty comments about lawyers. :D
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Re: Strava lawsuit?

Postby bardygrub » Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:21 pm

There is a new strava terms and cond. update!!
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Re: Strava lawsuit?

Postby wexford » Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:23 pm

The KOM loss notification does encourage you go hard. The day after I got the message below I went out of my way to ride a different route specifically for the purpose of reclaiming the KOM. Which I did :D

You just lost your KOM on Bush Bash to [temporary usurper whom I put back in his place the next afternoon] by 7 seconds.

Better get out there and show them who’s boss!

-Your friends at Strava


So there's a case to be answered, I guess. But as rogan pointed out, you can report dangerous segments, and I've done so more than once. People program them in dumb locations, such as one which passes a train station with large numbers of peds and two crosswalks :?

I've not looked into the T&Cs etc so I don't know if we're expressly advised to ride within the law and our own safety limits.
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