HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby Jono L. » Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:05 pm

sogood wrote:
Jono L. wrote:It's not rough, it is 100% correct.

Guess the questions, whether one should apply the rule of guilty until proven otherwise? If that's upheld, then I don't see too much wrong for a journalist to defend the position. He could be as much in the wood as many many others. If lynch mob mentality is acceptable, then that's a different criteria. It's so easy at this point to call "I told you so". In any case, I would agree that the UCI has some explaining to do given that they have access to all the data first hand.


If innocent until proven guilty was applied Phil wouldn't have helped to advocate the denigration of people who spoke out against Lance.

He would have been diplomatic, he would have said, " I believe Lance is innocent blah blah blah, but let these allegations have their day in court" or similar and he would not have helped perpetuate the myths that these people are bitter/twisted/jealous etc. Instead Phil sprayed out TV screens with ad hominen attacks that only served to enable Armstrong to bully and intimidate.

Yes it is easy to point and say told you so. And I am. And I will.
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by BNA » Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:46 pm

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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby herzog » Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:46 pm

Well said.

For me, Liggett's credibility is in tatters.
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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby JustJames » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:49 pm

Anybody know why Betsy Andreu is so vocal in all of this?

At first I thought that she might be a jilted lover...but unlike his first wife, Sheryl Crow or the anorexia twins, Betsy looks nothing like LA's mother, so that can't be it.
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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby greyhoundtom » Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:33 pm

JustJames wrote:Anybody know why Betsy Andreu is so vocal in all of this?

At first I thought that she might be a jilted lover...but unlike his first wife, Sheryl Crow or the anorexia twins, Betsy looks nothing like LA's mother, so that can't be it.

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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:45 pm

Chuck wrote:Let's hope the UCI are brave and surprise us with an honest and transparent response.

Can you guys stop it with the jokes. This is serious.
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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:55 pm

JustJames wrote:Anybody know why Betsy Andreu is so vocal in all of this?

At first I thought that she might be a jilted lover...but unlike his first wife, Sheryl Crow or the anorexia twins, Betsy looks nothing like LA's mother, so that can't be it.

It was pretty simple, she was worried about her fiancée's (Frankie) health and well being after finding out about the cocktail of PEDS LA was using that quite possibly led to him getting cancer, and so she demanded Frankie come clean about it and stop using if he was. To her, the health of her family was the #1 priority.

Then LA started to attack her mercilessly for telling the truth.
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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby eldavo » Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:59 pm

From what I read of the Greg LeMond history with Lance Armstrong, it appears the pattern is to use influence, money, lawyers, character assasination and threats to suppress people outside of the doping system from bringing down the empire.
The behaviour reminds me of the father of a child abuse victim who was threatened to have his life ruined if he contested the popular and influential character who was warden at a town youth hostel for 15 years from 1975 to 1990 and abused 11 children. The example father complied with the threats, his other son was also abused, and the elder left home at 17 and has never seen or spoken to his father since.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-19/a ... atsouthern
This is the mentioned boy betrayed by his father telling part of the story http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reAxLbsEuYY

Like the UCI, that report found the authorities in the community (including Police, schools, council) to be complicit in enabling the PED (pun), neglecting the issues, not acting to their duties of care. The arse covering by higher ups using rider scape goats has understandably made people want to come out.
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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby __PG__ » Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:26 pm

g-boaf wrote:It's like the F1 regulations designed to slow cars down. Regardless of what they do, the engineers find a way to make them go even faster than before. While there is so much money in sponsorship and that desire to win, those with the best science behind them will still win.

The F1 analogy is limited because the FIA do a lot more to clamp down on cheating than the UCI does.

In motorsport there are strict parc ferme rules that apply to when the teams can work on the cars.

In instances when the FIA was unable to stop cheating (e.g. traction control) they took the step to create their own ECUs to further lower the likelihood of cheating. When it comes to aerodynamic flexible structures...the FIA is always altering its tests to try and keep up with the teams. Many times the FIA has changed the rules mid-year to nip 'creative' interpretations of the rules in the bud (e.g. Renault's mass damper in 2006).

You wonder if the UCI could implement a similar strategy (and I think someone else suggested this either on this forum or on Weight Weenies). Implement 'parc ferme' rules whereby the teams cannot 'service' their riders in between stages. Once a rider finishes a stage he returns to the UCI hotel where he only interacts with UCI doctors/masseurs/officials.

Secondly, the UCI itself distributes all food/water to the riders during an event. Any team found distributing non-UCI sanctioned food/water to a rider is banned.

To me it shows how little the UCI actually care about the issue when they continue to blame the riders and let the team owners and doctors continue to work.

The rider is just an engine. He just pushes the pedals on a bike. The team management and doctors dictate the team strategies, doping regimes, sponsorship agreements etc.

If you separate the engine from the reach of team management during a race they can't tamper with the engine and cheat.
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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby Alien27 » Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:18 am

SMH page 2 bottom left hand corner!! An open letter to Mr Pat McQuaid, President of UCI from Jamie fuller chairman of SKINS International.

Top letter with no punches pulled.
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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:24 am

__PG__ wrote:The rider is just an engine. He just pushes the pedals on a bike. The team management and doctors dictate the team strategies, doping regimes, sponsorship agreements etc.

If you separate the engine from the reach of team management during a race they can't tamper with the engine and cheat.

You might be overestimating the influence or responsibility teams currently have on the training and preparation of riders. The majority are hardly "professional" in that regard, and certainly not well organised. It's really quite amateur, with most riders left to fend for themselves with whatever resources they have and are willing to throw at it.
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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby find_bruce » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:17 am

Alien27 wrote:SMH page 2 bottom left hand corner!! An open letter to Mr Pat McQuaid, President of UCI from Jamie fuller chairman of SKINS International.

Top letter with no punches pulled.

It is on the skins website at http://www.skins.net/open-letter-to-uci-president.pdf
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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby jindydiver » Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:20 am

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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby The 2nd Womble » Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:33 am

The utterly unforgivable thing now is that Australia has always prided itself on it's clean cycling rep in the pill'o-ton. It's not just the athletes that are tarnished today, but Our reputation as a sporting nation as well. I'm disgusted.
It'll be interesting to see if it affects the AGF at all. Can't see why it would really need to and I hope nothing eventuates, but everyone is running away from this quick smart.
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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:23 pm

The 2nd Womble wrote:The utterly unforgivable thing now is that Australia has always prided itself on it's clean cycling rep in the pill'o-ton. It's not just the athletes that are tarnished today, but Our reputation as a sporting nation as well. I'm disgusted.


Clean cycling reputation? Not sure what rock people have been hiding under. But I suppose nationalistic glasses do tend to be rose coloured.
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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby sogood » Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:39 pm

The 2nd Womble wrote:The utterly unforgivable thing now is that Australia has always prided itself on it's clean cycling rep in the pill'o-ton. It's not just the athletes that are tarnished today, but Our reputation as a sporting nation as well. I'm disgusted.

Only if you believe in nationalistic media and have succumbed. Doping is an universal problem that born out of human nature. It has no national or ethnic or sporting boundaries. I am far more disgusted by illegal wars and rights abuses of this world.
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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby The 2nd Womble » Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:12 pm

Remember that until this week, Australian riders had been beyond reproach. I'm not naive. I think many of us truly believed our riders stood for something, and being a BikePure ambassador (yeah yeah bla bla, I know it sounds pretentious) I had been very interested in all things bad in the sport for a while.
It's a sad day whether you believed the bull poop or not.
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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:50 pm

The 2nd Womble wrote:Remember that until this week, Australian riders had been beyond reproach. I'm not naive.

Then we have evidence of a multiverse.
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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby The 2nd Womble » Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:07 pm

Prior to the release of USADA's findings, who were you aware of?
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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby Jono L. » Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:50 pm

The 2nd Womble wrote:Prior to the release of USADA's findings, who were you aware of?

How long have you got?
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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby find_bruce » Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:52 pm

The 2nd Womble wrote:Prior to the release of USADA's findings, who were you aware of?

You mean apart from Mark Roland, Nathan O'Neil, Carey Hall and Stephen Pate ?
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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby The 2nd Womble » Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:19 pm

find_bruce wrote:
The 2nd Womble wrote:Prior to the release of USADA's findings, who were you aware of?

You mean apart from Mark Roland, Nathan O'Neil, Carey Hall and Stephen Pate ?

I know of Pate. Who the hell are these other blokes? :shock:










I'm just gonna stand over here and hold up my new Zealnd passport from behind these curtains... :roll:
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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby greyhoundtom » Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:47 pm

The 2nd Womble wrote:
find_bruce wrote:
The 2nd Womble wrote:Prior to the release of USADA's findings, who were you aware of?

You mean apart from Mark Roland, Nathan O'Neil, Carey Hall and Stephen Pate ?

I know of Pate. Who the hell are these other blokes? :shock:

By AFP | Friday, Sep 19, 2008 11.28am
Australian cyclist Mark Roland has been suspended for two years for using human growth hormone

By Neal Rogers Published Oct. 6, 2010 Updated May. 1, 2012 at 2:00 PM EDT
USADA: O’Neill a key player in O’Bee doping case
An eight-time Australian national time trial champion who won the 2005 Tour de Beauce, O’Neill was suspended from August 2007 to November 2008 for a positive test for the prescription appetite suppressant Phentermine.
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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby schroeds » Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:54 pm

Back to Lance, I wonder how the staff at Flinders Uni's Cancer Research Centre feel about all this :(

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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby Carriage » Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:57 pm

How awkward
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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby master6 » Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:03 pm

My recollection of Nathan Oneill is that he was from Toowoomba, and left the AIS suffering anorexia. This was some time prior the infringement mentioned above. Perhaps his treatment for anorexia went too far, causing him to "overeat"? I dunno, just trying to consider possible excuses for him before we crucify him here.
Carey Hall; Kathy Watt partner?
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