Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute (nsw

open topic, for anything cycling related.

Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute

Postby Undertow » Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:02 am

AUbicycles wrote:Ok, that is settled, lets move on.

Apologies in advance but I don't think it's quite done yet.

TimW wrote:Oxford being courteous about someones occupation is not hard to do, i am sure if someone denegrated what you do, or did, you would be the first to be "up in arms about it"(I would bet money on it).


If Oxford (or anyone for that matter) was not doing his job to an acceptable I would expect that his boss and customers would complain. Why should this be any different for the police? It is their job to enforce the law, that's why they are called law enforcement. If any member of the public feels that the police aren't doing their best to enforce the law then that person has the right to complain.
Image
Undertow
 
Posts: 270
Joined: Sat May 29, 2010 12:25 pm

by BNA » Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:49 am

BNA
 

Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute (nsw

Postby westab » Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:49 am

AndyTheMan good move reporting the matter to the police - I have had a couple of good outcomes doing this near where I live where they drop in and have a chat to the driver in question. (I usually contact the bicycle patrol wing at my local station). The drivers then usually realise that they can get in serious trouble around cyclists and according to the officers seem like they will change their ways.

I have also had two not nice incidents with taxi drivers - the 2nd one was last night with the other 3 years ago (most taxi drivers seem OK). The first one the Taxi company when I called them thought it was funny and gave me a reference number and basically told me get stuffed. Action no.1- report to police as before (they got video from Taxi company and charged driver) action no.2 report to workcover NSW (with police reference) Worcover fined company for allowing unsafe work practice and also driver. Company "phoned" with a half baked "sorry" IMHO :( (the sort you get from a kid who is only sorry they got caught but has no intention of changing)

Incident last night - Phoned company (different) spoke to their work safety office - He checked plate number / GPS from Taxi / uploaded video feed and viewed. Took my details and ensured my that the company would take action and let me know what that was by this time next week. Then gave an appropriate apology and hoped that the actions of this one driver did not make me consider that their company didn't take the safety of their passanges and other on the road near their cabs seriously. They were very professional. Further action - none (most likely)

My point is if you know the company the ute driver works for you may wish to contact them to let them know how their ute is being used. Then maybe contact workcover (this may not apply as it will only apply if the driver was either at work or on his way there or from - IMHO). Just might be an education that helps both the ute driver and everyone else on the road.
Not fast, no style, but still get there.
westab
 
Posts: 1304
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:05 pm
Location: Blacktown, NSW

Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute

Postby blkmcs » Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:24 pm

Undertow wrote:
AUbicycles wrote:Ok, that is settled, lets move on.

Apologies in advance but I don't think it's quite done yet.

TimW wrote:Oxford being courteous about someones occupation is not hard to do, i am sure if someone denegrated what you do, or did, you would be the first to be "up in arms about it"(I would bet money on it).


If Oxford (or anyone for that matter) was not doing his job to an acceptable I would expect that his boss and customers would complain. Why should this be any different for the police? It is their job to enforce the law, that's why they are called law enforcement. If any member of the public feels that the police aren't doing their best to enforce the law then that person has the right to complain.

Oxford used the term jackboots to refer to the police, this was an unwarranted insult.
I cannot see anywhere in TimW's posts a suggestion that members of the public should not be allowed to complain about members of the Police Service not doing their job.
Too old to live, too slow to die.
User avatar
blkmcs
 
Posts: 898
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:44 pm
Location: Bayswater, WA

Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute (nsw

Postby TimW » Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:37 pm

Beautiful day for a ride :mrgreen: :mrgreen:.
Moved on :mrgreen:
Image
User avatar
TimW
 
Posts: 1361
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:37 pm
Location: Near the M7C

Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute (nsw

Postby Oxford » Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:30 pm

When you've been subjected to what I have been subjected to my turn of phrase was actually quite pleasant and complimentary given how I really feel, but that is my opinion based on my personal experiences. Its simple, if you do your job as expected no matter what your occupation, then no problem, if you don't you really only have yourself to blame. Worse still if you let others within your profession denigrate your profession and you do nothing about it, you're equally to blame.

I hope the OP does meet a professional member of the constabulary who takes his complaint seriously and acts on it. They are few and far between in my experience, but some do exist.
Life is not about waiting for the rain to pass.....it's about learning to dance (or ride) in the rain.
- anonymous
User avatar
Oxford
 
Posts: 4761
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:49 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute (nsw

Postby AndyTheMan » Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:33 pm

So I have made a written statement to deliver to police - cover letter is as follows. Letter is also accompanied by detailed statement (based on template in the safety and advocacy section of this forum) with all the details, witness info etc. Sent to my local area command. I actually work a lot with my local state members (as in, I deal with the four state members of parliament from my region personally in my work dealings) so if I don't hear anything I will take that angle as well.

Letter goes like this:


Dear Sir/Madam,

RE: Cyclist Deliberately Targeting By Motor Vehicle
October 17, 2012 (Avoca Drive, Green Point)

I am writing to you because of an incident that occurred to me on Wednesday October 17, 2012.

Whilst I was not injured, no property was damaged and there was no contact made between myself and the offender in this case, the incident was dangerous enough for me to be in fear of my own personal safety. In short, a motor vehicle driver made a deliberate targeted attempt to run me down.

I am fearful that this offender may cause myself, or others, harm in the future if their behaviour is allowed to remain unchecked. This is akin to speeding offences where in most cases the offender when caught was not or has not injured anyone, no property was damaged and no accident has occurred, but they are penalised for what may occur if their speeding is allowed to remain unchecked. In my case the offence was deliberate and immediately life threatening and the driver needs to be made aware of the seriousness of their behaviour towards other road users. The seriousness of the event was evident by other road users who stopped at the scene to offer assistance, including one who offered to provide a witness statement (this is despite the offending driver making no attempt to stop or offer assistance after the incident). Given the seriousness and deliberate nature of the actions of the driver, a call to triple-0 emergency was immediately made offering all the details.

Because this type of situation is becoming all too common, cyclists like myself have resorted to using Digital Video Cameras (DVRs) as a means of giving ourselves the evidence necessary to capture life threatening behaviour of motorists. Unfortunately on this occasion I did not have my camera operating. However, other vehicles stopped at the scene and atleast one other driver has provided their details as a witness to the actions of the offender (provided on the following pages).

With a written statement from myself, and the advice of an independent witness (who was an unknown car driver at the scene), the details in the triple-0 emergency call as well as a full description of the vehicle involved (including registration plate) there is no reason for you not to be able to take some action against the offender including (at least) a formal warning and reminder of potential Traffic Infringement Notices and possibly even criminal charges (especially if I happened to have my video camera operating on the day).

I realise that the police are very busy which is why I am writing to you. This will allow you to consider this matter fully and determine the action you will be taking against the offender before contacting me for formal statements.

I trust that you will take my letter seriously. I am sure you understand that a deliberate and malicious attempt at personal injury could have resulted in serious (or fatal) outcomes and ongoing impacts for my family, life and career.

All I ask is that I be allowed to be able to use the road legally, safely and without fear of personal injury to myself by others.
AndyTheMan
 
Posts: 259
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:52 am

Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute

Postby MarkG » Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:43 pm

blkmcs wrote:
Undertow wrote:
AUbicycles wrote:Ok, that is settled, lets move on.

Apologies in advance but I don't think it's quite done yet.

TimW wrote:Oxford being courteous about someones occupation is not hard to do, i am sure if someone denegrated what you do, or did, you would be the first to be "up in arms about it"(I would bet money on it).


If Oxford (or anyone for that matter) was not doing his job to an acceptable I would expect that his boss and customers would complain. Why should this be any different for the police? It is their job to enforce the law, that's why they are called law enforcement. If any member of the public feels that the police aren't doing their best to enforce the law then that person has the right to complain.

Oxford used the term jackboots to refer to the police, this was an unwarranted insult.
I cannot see anywhere in TimW's posts a suggestion that members of the public should not be allowed to complain about members of the Police Service not doing their job.


What is a jackboot? and how is it an insult?
Am I missing something?
Proudly "a hater of academics with helmet cams"
User avatar
MarkG
 
Posts: 2147
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:02 pm
Location: Perth, Australia

Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute (nsw

Postby Oxford » Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:56 pm

Andy, great letter.
Life is not about waiting for the rain to pass.....it's about learning to dance (or ride) in the rain.
- anonymous
User avatar
Oxford
 
Posts: 4761
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:49 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute (nsw

Postby westab » Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:57 pm

Andy - Well done - that letter is tops.
Not fast, no style, but still get there.
westab
 
Posts: 1304
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:05 pm
Location: Blacktown, NSW

Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute

Postby Oxford » Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:59 pm

MarkG wrote:...

What is a jackboot? and how is it an insult?
Am I missing something?

Depending on the person, it can be conceived as a derogatory reference. Basically it can be linked to accusing them of behaving in a fascist or nazi like manner. Equally it can be considered the opposite. Depends on the receiver and how they want to interpret it. You be the judge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackboot
Life is not about waiting for the rain to pass.....it's about learning to dance (or ride) in the rain.
- anonymous
User avatar
Oxford
 
Posts: 4761
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:49 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute (nsw

Postby MarkG » Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:04 pm

lol ..

some people are precious on here aren't they..
Proudly "a hater of academics with helmet cams"
User avatar
MarkG
 
Posts: 2147
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:02 pm
Location: Perth, Australia

Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute (nsw

Postby g-boaf » Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:12 pm

That's a very reasonable letter. Hope you get a positive outcome.

It's also very good that you are okay.
g-boaf
 
Posts: 3871
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute (nsw

Postby skull » Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:16 pm

I would view the term jackboot in the same line a grunt. I had no issues being called a grunt when I was in the army.

Sent from my not iDevice using Tapatalk 2
User avatar
skull
 
Posts: 1657
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:48 pm

Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute (nsw

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:42 pm

From an alegation of dastardly driver behaviour the thread now seems to now be a place to pummel police. So, about police...

I read a lot of self serving arguments that do not always make much sense without giving an undue benefit of the doubt.

There is a wide variety of what people see as dangerous.

Some people seem to be primed to see faults and rush to report. That just makes it harder for the cops to bother with other legitimate complaints.

There are some alegations supported by video footage that doesn't look anything like the description.

There are many cyclists themselves who very publicly demonstrate a disdain for their own safely while expecting others to value their lives more than they do.

And anyone who complains to the local plod but then is unwilling to go to court is wasting the time of those public servants that are being paid for by my taxes. Talk to cop and ask about that and you will hit a raw nerve.

And finally And there are heap of other things that cops need to do as well. The cops have to somehow juggle all these complaints and demands while filtering out the trivial, the vexatious and the plain wrong to arrive at the few that they can afford the time to deal with properly and sufficiently to get a conviction.

I don't think cops are anything special. But they have my sympathy.
Unchain yourself - Ride a unicycle .Image
User avatar
ColinOldnCranky
 
Posts: 4649
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:58 pm

Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute (nsw

Postby Oxford » Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:49 pm

COC, I agree with your sentiments, its just a shame a few spoil it for the many (and create a bitter taste), but I could be referencing almost anything with that comment could I not? Well except for pro cyclists, seems the majority were doping and spoiling it for the minority from what we are seeing. :lol:
Life is not about waiting for the rain to pass.....it's about learning to dance (or ride) in the rain.
- anonymous
User avatar
Oxford
 
Posts: 4761
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:49 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute (nsw

Postby AndyTheMan » Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:05 pm

Its interesting that the posts that have come from my initial one sort of some up my thoughts over the last couple of days.

On the one hand, I'm sorta annoyed that more is not done about these sorts of events (you know, cars trying to run people over) - and particularly that it doesn't seem to be a priority for police in many circumstances.

On the other hand, this incident is on minor little thing in the daily life of a police officer. I have no doubt that they deal with some crappy stuff, and that cyclists complaints about drivers (however well founded) are probably a fair way down the list.

And of course there is the heap of other stuff that ColinOldNCranky pointed out (like how do you decide the dodgy claims of bad driving against the legitimate ones).

I dunno what the answer is. In some way I agree with all the posts.

I also entirely convinced that the driver involved in this incident has a very very small !!! spammer !!!!
AndyTheMan
 
Posts: 259
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:52 am

Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute (nsw

Postby scotto » Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:34 pm

Devils advocate time . What do expect to happen ?
You weren't hurt, there was no collision , you say deliberate, he'll say "I didn't see the bicycle". The police can't really do anything I would think except let the ute driver know of the complaint, don't think they can charge him with scaring you. It's one of those situations were you'd get more done if you were hit. But in the eyes of the Law, nothing happened. Imagine the police POV dealing with every car driver who has someone pull out in front of them or scare the daylights out of them.
User avatar
scotto
 
Posts: 2346
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:38 am
Location: Baulkham Hills

Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute (nsw

Postby jasonc » Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:44 pm

scotto wrote:Devils advocate time . What do expect to happen ?
You weren't hurt, there was no collision , you say deliberate, he'll say "I didn't see the bicycle". The police can't really do anything I would think except let the ute driver know of the complaint, don't think they can charge him with scaring you. It's one of those situations were you'd get more done if you were hit. But in the eyes of the Law, nothing happened. Imagine the police POV dealing with every car driver who has someone pull out in front of them or scare the daylights out of them.


a visit from the boys in blue would be the minimum I'd expect. Then they can decide what to do next based on the response
Image
jasonc
 
Posts: 5624
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:40 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute (nsw

Postby Oxford » Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:30 pm

scotto wrote:Devils advocate time . What do expect to happen ?
You weren't hurt, there was no collision , you say deliberate, he'll say "I didn't see the bicycle". The police can't really do anything I would think except let the ute driver know of the complaint, don't think they can charge him with scaring you. It's one of those situations were you'd get more done if you were hit. But in the eyes of the Law, nothing happened. Imagine the police POV dealing with every car driver who has someone pull out in front of them or scare the daylights out of them.

so do you agree that all speeding fines issued where no one was harmed, no property was damaged etc etc should be quashed and never enforced again?
Life is not about waiting for the rain to pass.....it's about learning to dance (or ride) in the rain.
- anonymous
User avatar
Oxford
 
Posts: 4761
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:49 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute

Postby foo on patrol » Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:26 pm

jasonc wrote:
AndyTheMan wrote:I negated to mention that I called triple zero at the scene, gave all details, plus witness details...

They were really helpful right up u until they asked what vehicle I was driving. Once I said cyclist their demeanour changed...

I have a witness, with details, I have the triple zero call. Tomorrow it's a police report.

Anyone had any success without a video?



was anyone still at risk? no Why, because he managed to avoid being hit? :?

should you have called 000? no You're told to call this anyway, when threatend

it's not an emergency. please call 131444 Yeah easy to remember in the moment. :roll:

Foo
I don't suffer fools easily and so long as you have done your best,you should have no regrets.
Goal 6000km
Image
User avatar
foo on patrol
 
Posts: 4320
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:12 am
Location: Sanstone Point QLD

Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute

Postby jasonc » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:09 pm

foo on patrol wrote:
jasonc wrote:
AndyTheMan wrote:I negated to mention that I called triple zero at the scene, gave all details, plus witness details...

They were really helpful right up u until they asked what vehicle I was driving. Once I said cyclist their demeanour changed...

I have a witness, with details, I have the triple zero call. Tomorrow it's a police report.

Anyone had any success without a video?



was anyone still at risk? no Why, because he managed to avoid being hit? :?

should you have called 000? no You're told to call this anyway, when threatend

it's not an emergency. please call 131444 Yeah easy to remember in the moment. :roll:

Foo


foo - if it was me, I'd call 131444. am unsure what the emergency services would prefer
Image
jasonc
 
Posts: 5624
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:40 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute (nsw

Postby AndyTheMan » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:58 pm

Oxford wrote:
scotto wrote:Devils advocate time . What do expect to happen ?
You weren't hurt, there was no collision , you say deliberate, he'll say "I didn't see the bicycle". The police can't really do anything I would think except let the ute driver know of the complaint, don't think they can charge him with scaring you. It's one of those situations were you'd get more done if you were hit. But in the eyes of the Law, nothing happened. Imagine the police POV dealing with every car driver who has someone pull out in front of them or scare the daylights out of them.

so do you agree that all speeding fines issued where no one was harmed, no property was damaged etc etc should be quashed and never enforced again?



I agree that a visit and a warning would be about the limit of what could be done here.

But, in the bigger picture, I hope that such a warning would be noted on their record for future emergence.
AndyTheMan
 
Posts: 259
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:52 am

Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute (nsw

Postby AndyTheMan » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:58 pm

Oxford wrote:
scotto wrote:Devils advocate time . What do expect to happen ?
You weren't hurt, there was no collision , you say deliberate, he'll say "I didn't see the bicycle". The police can't really do anything I would think except let the ute driver know of the complaint, don't think they can charge him with scaring you. It's one of those situations were you'd get more done if you were hit. But in the eyes of the Law, nothing happened. Imagine the police POV dealing with every car driver who has someone pull out in front of them or scare the daylights out of them.

so do you agree that all speeding fines issued where no one was harmed, no property was damaged etc etc should be quashed and never enforced again?



I agree that a visit and a warning would be about the limit of what could be done here.

But, in the bigger picture, I hope that such a warning would be noted on their record for future reference.
AndyTheMan
 
Posts: 259
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:52 am

Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute (nsw

Postby AndyTheMan » Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:03 pm

jasonc wrote:
foo on patrol wrote:
jasonc wrote:[quote="AndyTheMan"]I negated to mention that I called triple zero at the scene, gave all details, plus witness details...

They were really helpful right up u until they asked what vehicle I was driving. Once I said cyclist their demeanour changed...

I have a witness, with details, I have the triple zero call. Tomorrow it's a police report.

Anyone had any success without a video?



was anyone still at risk? no Why, because he managed to avoid being hit? :?

should you have called 000? no You're told to call this anyway, when threatend

it's not an emergency. please call 131444 Yeah easy to remember in the moment. :roll:

Foo


foo - if it was me, I'd call 131444. am unsure what the emergency services would prefer[/quote]

I get your point Jason, but (with all due respect) you weren't there on the spot.

This was not an accident, or a lack,of concentration - this was a deliberate attempt to run me down.

If this was any other threatening situation (man In the street with a knife, guy grabbing a handbag, someone threatening another person etc) would it be acceptable to not call triple 0 because 'no one had yet been hurt'

I do see your point, but at the time the seriousness of the situation was evident to myself and all those other road users left standing on the side of the road.
AndyTheMan
 
Posts: 259
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:52 am

Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute (nsw

Postby AndyTheMan » Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:03 pm

jasonc wrote:
foo on patrol wrote:
jasonc wrote:[quote="AndyTheMan"]I negated to mention that I called triple zero at the scene, gave all details, plus witness details...

They were really helpful right up u until they asked what vehicle I was driving. Once I said cyclist their demeanour changed...

I have a witness, with details, I have the triple zero call. Tomorrow it's a police report.

Anyone had any success without a video?



was anyone still at risk? no Why, because he managed to avoid being hit? :?

should you have called 000? no You're told to call this anyway, when threatend

it's not an emergency. please call 131444 Yeah easy to remember in the moment. :roll:

Foo


foo - if it was me, I'd call 131444. am unsure what the emergency services would prefer[/quote]

I get your point Jason, but (with all due respect) you weren't there on the spot.

This was not an accident, or a lack,of concentration - this was a deliberate attempt to run me down.

If this was any other threatening situation (man In the street with a knife, guy grabbing a handbag, someone threatening another person etc) would it be acceptable to not call triple 0 because 'no one had yet been hurt'

I do see your point, but at the time the seriousness of the situation was evident to myself and all those other road users left standing on the side of the road.
AndyTheMan
 
Posts: 259
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:52 am

PreviousNext

Return to General discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot]



Popular Bike Shops
Torpedo 7 Torpedo7 AU
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Ebay Ebay AU



InTouch with BNA
“Bicycles BNA Twitter
“Bicycles BNA Facebook
“Google+ BNA Google+
“Bicycles BNA Newsletter