Doping in C-grade ?

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Doping in C-grade ?

Postby wombatK » Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:37 am

From todays SMH Battle to Keep pedlars out

What do the clubbies here think - have they previously had any suspicions that doping has spread
to the lower ranks ? Is the sky falling in on cycling or is Guinness just another Chicken Little ?

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by BNA » Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:43 am

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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby Sydguy » Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:43 am

There is no doping in C Grade. Judging by the few D and C grade races I've been in where people can barely afford carbon wheels and protein shakes it is unlikely they are doping.

Also if I can compete in C grade then sure as hell no one is doping.

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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby g-boaf » Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:45 pm

It's just the SMH getting a spectacular story and trying to fan the flames of controversy. There is probably isn't any doping in those levels and where is the evidence for the story? Have they got any?
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby Ozkaban » Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:51 pm

What an annoying article. It's all down to the questions asked... 'Would it be possible...' is not the same as 'Have you ever seen..' or 'Does it happen...'

who the heck would dope in C grade. It's not like the glory and ritches would offset the issues caused by these drugs long term.
Last edited by Ozkaban on Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby zero » Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:53 pm

Its a farcical statement. Thus far we have retired 2 pro's who used to dope in europe (using lance's supply chain). Unless someone is suggesting they ran a supply chain here :roll: , there is no evidence for the statement.

If I wanted to dope, I'd get myself on down to the local gym and get a bodybuilder to hook me up.
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby g-boaf » Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:12 pm

I think it's time for Media Watch to have a look at this article and bring the journalist back to reality. It's a filthy, smearing article, and unless the journo has some concrete evidence, then he is a grub. :x
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby Christine Tham » Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:13 pm

I must admit I laughed out loud when I read this. C grade is about the level of your average weekend warrior - if you feel you need to dope to win that crit at C grade you should probably switch to a different sport, like dancing Gangnam style maybe.
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby AndrewBurns » Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:20 pm

Yeah I'm a weekend warrior and I race c-grade sometimes, and sometimes I even get close to winning! The only performance enhancement I'd need to win is any kind of structured training at all :P

Really nobody is going to consider doping until you get to opens grade or you're at a level where you could get sponsorship.
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby gabrielle260 » Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:02 pm

I'm really reluctant to comment in case you all turn on me....
I haven't raced in over 10 years but back then it was not unknown to see fist fights at the end of C grade races. There was occasional cheating for $25 purses and chopping down to C Grade was common.
I never saw actual drug taking but there was talk of it.
Outside of cycling I was told by a reliable source of amphetamines being offered to junior footy players in a grand final.
Current day and I am on the committee of my sons sports club where we have cases of parents falsifying their children's results just so they get a personal best...
With all of that in mind, I find the article quite believable.
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby gabrielle260 » Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:03 pm

I'm really reluctant to comment in case you all turn on me....
I haven't raced in over 10 years but back then it was not unknown to see fist fights at the end of C grade races. There was occasional cheating for $25 purses and chopping down to C Grade was common.
I never saw actual drug taking but there was talk of it.
Outside of cycling I was told by a reliable source of amphetamines being offered to junior footy players in a grand final.
Current day and I am on the committee of my sons sports club where we have cases of parents falsifying their children's results just so they get a personal best...
With all of that in mind, I find the article quite believable.
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby skull » Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:16 pm

gabrielle260 wrote:With all of that in mind, I find the article quite believable.
Andrew

I can find some credit to it. Wasn't there an article recently about drug usage in sportive events.
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby twizzle » Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:17 pm

Kids are doping on energy drinks and flu tablets etc. at high-schools level soccer/rugby etc., guys in lower grades than me are splashing out on Di2. If they have the money and the risks of getting caught are low, they will do it.


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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby AndrewBurns » Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:28 pm

twizzle wrote:Kids are doping on energy drinks and flu tablets etc. at high-schools level soccer/rugby etc., guys in lower grades than me are splashing out on Di2. If they have the money and the risks of getting caught are low, they will do it.


Sent from my iThingy...


Just because people spend money on racing in lower grades doesn't mean that they could be doping. I bought some aero 'race wheels' even though I don't race all that often and I never actually train for it. From what I understand, performance enhancing drugs don't just make you win, all they can do is increase the effect of your training, increase your speed of recovery etc. Honestly I think that anybody racing in C-grade could be in a higher grade if they trained and if they're not training I don't think that a PED would really help them anyway and I really doubt that anybody would be taking them.
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby skull » Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:35 pm

Yeah PEDs won't make you make you faster without the training.
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby Ross » Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:43 pm

I don't know of anyone doping, it's possible there are. There is no testing. That masters guy in US that got busted a while back for doping at the Grande Fondo started out as Cat 4 (D grade) I think, and over time and with the help of PEDs made it up a few grades.
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby roller » Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:00 pm

so far no one has tested positive, this smells of a witch hunt or an anti-australian conspiracy.
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby Christine Tham » Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:26 pm

Haven't seen any fist fights but I've seen pushing and shoving.

The most common form of cheating are burglars who really should have been moved to a higher grade years ago but mask their true status so that they can continue winning in a lower grade. EPO isn't going to help them, a few beers might reduce their performance though.
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:30 pm

Christine Tham wrote:I must admit I laughed out loud when I read this. C grade is about the level of your average weekend warrior

Well people do need to realise who the quote was from before getting overly upset.

Mind you, C-grade at a Tuesday evening Heffron (which is the relevant race quoted here) would be beyond most weekend warriors.
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby The 2nd Womble » Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:34 pm

skull wrote:Yeah PEDs won't make you make you faster without the training.

But they could help you keep up.
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby skull » Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:34 pm

yeah a weekend warrior and those competing in C grade would be a fair distance apart IMO

The 2nd Womble wrote:
skull wrote:Yeah PEDs won't make you make you faster without the training.

But they could help you keep up.


I disagree, they would just cost you money.

PEDs don't make you compete faster, they assist in allowing you to train longer and harder and recover to do the rinse and repeat. Without the additional training you wouldn't improve.
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby The 2nd Womble » Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:40 pm

skull wrote:yeah a weekend warrior and those competing in C grade would be a fair distance apart IMO

The 2nd Womble wrote:
skull wrote:Yeah PEDs won't make you make you faster without the training.

But they could help you keep up.


I disagree, they would just cost you money.

PEDs don't make you compete faster, they assist in allowing you to train longer and harder and recover to do the rinse and repeat. Without the additional training you wouldn't improve.

I guess it depends on which PED's your talking about.
A hit of Speed (Goey/Whiz) could do wonders for your sprint. Does anyone know any high school chemistry teachers who race on the weekends?
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:53 pm

skull wrote:PEDs don't make you compete faster, they assist in allowing you to train longer and harder and recover to do the rinse and repeat. Without the additional training you wouldn't improve.

Not that I'd imagine that anyone who doesn't train would bother with PEDs, but you are incorrect. Certain PEDs would substantially improve performance even in those who don't train.

And more generally, certain doping, in particular O2 enhancement, has a direct and substantial impact on performance, over non use.

Even nowadays with micro dosing of EPO, which is undetectable even with blood bio passport, has a substantial performance benefit.
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby Christine Tham » Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:03 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:
Mind you, C-grade at a Tuesday evening Heffron (which is the relevant race quoted here) would be beyond most weekend warriors.


Any facts to back that up?

Depends on your definition of a "weekend warrior" - I would say C grade is perfectly achievable by anyone who rides say 200-300 km a week, with a ride average of around 30-35 km/h over say 70-100 km, and I know lots of weekend warriors that do that where I am, and some do compete in C or B grade.

I would say a typical B grader would need to train mid week, and therefore technically isn't just a weekend warrior.
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby toolonglegs » Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:08 pm

People cheat at all levels!... Only yesterday I was thinking about a Mtb race I did at Wonderland in Sydney where I caught a guy on a Christian racing team cutting huge sections of his laps!.
I haven't read the article, but I saw that Alex said it refers to Hefron Tuesday night C Grade... That certainly is not your average C grade crit, it gets very serious down there... And I am pretty sure there is the chance some people take it a little too seriously.
Do people dope to win C grade... Yes without a doubt.
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby liquor box » Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:13 pm

I believe it happens at all levels, it is just the method that changes. I doubt lower grades would use EPO or steroids etc, but there are other substances that improve performance by a little bit.

Pseudoephedrine(sp?) is/was in cold and flu tablets and allows for a clearer airway and allows you to breathe more efficiently. I think it is a banned substance (Sam Reilly) in Swimming and possibly in Cycling, I remember being told to take Codral the morning before regional athletics carnivals.

Is Ventolin allowed without a Dr's approval? Who checks if the guy next to you is allowed to take asthma medication? This would also assist breathing
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