Doping in C-grade ?

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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby winstonw » Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:56 am

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Dr Coggan doesn't have a PhD in sports physiology. This stuff, of which his knowledge is vastly superior to most, is but a hobby for him.


OK, it's a Ph.D in exercise physiology.
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by BNA » Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:15 am

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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:15 am

for those interested:
http://wustl.academia.edu/AndrewRCoggan/CurriculumVitae

By the way, I just want to check something Winstonw.

Do you know what "e.g." means, as in the "e.g." that appears before the terms "Cat 3", and after the term "Good" in the power profiling tables?
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby twizzle » Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:10 am

You have to start wondering about people here who have too much spare time. :roll:
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:39 am

Brad McGee raced in B grade last Tuesday.
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby The_Eggman » Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:11 am

Christine Tham wrote:No, you didn't say that exactly. However, you did say this:


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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby JustJames » Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:37 am

In other news:

Angels dancing on the head of a pin - how do they all fit?
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby twizzle » Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:23 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Brad McGee raced in B grade last Tuesday.



I bet I could have taken him, he's only a weekend warrior these days.


NOT. :lol:
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby twizzle » Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:10 pm

You know.... if I lose another 8Kg (given I've lost 15Kg this year), I become a Cat5/Cat4 sprinter, and drop solidly into the Cat1 range for 5 minute and FTP. Not shabby for a 43 yr old.

Damn, why didn't I take up real cycling when I was in my early 20's instead of my late 30's when I'd whacked on 43Kg of fat! (Currently I'm 33Kg lighter than I was in 2006).
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby winstonw » Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:28 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:By the way, I just want to check something Winstonw.

Do you know what "e.g." means, as in the "e.g." that appears before the terms "Cat 3", and after the term "Good" in the power profiling tables?


Get off it Alex. Coggan never said his tables were "a waste of time" for predicting race category. Only you said that.
Give me your spin on what he means by 'success' in what I quoted above.

If Andy, as a cool headed scientist, thought the tables really were a waste of time, he wouldn't have created them. No credible scientist would genuinely set out to cloud and confound the truth, or produce something that was wrong more often than it was right....He obviously thought the tables with category overlays have value as "a guide", which is different to your take that they are a waste of time.
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:44 pm

winstonw wrote:
Alex Simmons/RST wrote:By the way, I just want to check something Winstonw.

Do you know what "e.g." means, as in the "e.g." that appears before the terms "Cat 3", and after the term "Good" in the power profiling tables?


Get off it Alex. Coggan never said his tables were "a waste of time" for predicting race category. Only you said that.
Give me your spin on what he means by 'success' in what I quoted above.

If Andy, as a cool headed scientist, thought the tables really were a waste of time, he wouldn't have created them. No credible scientist would genuinely set out to cloud and confound the truth, or produce something that was wrong more often than it was right....He obviously thought the tables with category overlays have value as "a guide", which is different to your take that they are a waste of time.

Once again you introduce a strawman argument and misrepresent what others say. I'm not sure if it's a comprehension problem you have, or you just can't help yourself.

I never said the Power Profiling tables were a waste of time. They are a very helpful and useful guide to understanding one's individual power profile, which is precisely why they were created.

What I did say however was:
Alex Simmons/RST wrote:So once again, use of these tables to predict race category is a waste of time. Go race to find out what grade you are.

and I stand by that statement.
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:52 pm

Here is a direct quote from Dr Coggan from this post he made at Wattage forum on 6 January 2006, when he updated the tables from an earlier version.

Note that the link listed in the quote below has been superseded by that provided earlier in this thread.

Andy Coggan at the Wattage Foum 1 Jan 2006 wrote:The category guidelines associated with the power profiling tables, that is...version 4 is now posted at:

http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/profile.html

(The examples still need to be updated, but hopefully that will be taken care of soon.)

BTW, note that in addition to resurrecting the bracketed terms, the women's functional threshold power column has changed. Also, allow me to remind everyone that the primary purpose of these tables is to help people assess their own personal relative strengths and weaknesses, not to determine what category they should or should not be (which is why the category terms are preceeded by "e.g." and why the brackets overlap). If you really want to know how you stack up against others, go race your bike and find out!!


This is the link to the post:
https://groups.google.com/d/topic/watta ... discussion

but you will need to be a wattage forum member to view it.
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby toolonglegs » Tue Oct 30, 2012 5:11 pm

Pretty much becoming as yawnful as the MHL one.
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby ZepinAtor » Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:41 pm

toolonglegs wrote:Pretty much becoming as yawnful as the MHL one.


Only 191 pages to catch up or yawn to the power of 4 million trillion.

Any more of this dribble & we'll have a ban on power data or the BPL thread (ban power laws)
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby AndrewBurns » Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:16 pm

Just to add some info, rode Heffron tonight in C-grade, hanging off the back being destroyed by the rubber band and was basically dropped at the end (finished about 50m back from the bunch). Average speed 39.8 kph.
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby twizzle » Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:01 pm

I rode Vets A grade tonight in Canb., 40.9kph average... word is that last week was 44.2kphr. I'm having to learn the corners all over again, the speed through collar-bone is insane. No power data... only have one working docking station, and it's at work.
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby twizzle » Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:02 pm

ZepinAtor wrote:
toolonglegs wrote:Pretty much becoming as yawnful as the MHL one.


Only 191 pages to catch up or yawn to the power of 4 million trillion.

Any more of this dribble & we'll have a ban on power data or the BPL thread (ban power laws)


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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby winstonw » Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:30 pm

OK, BNA consensus is, using Andy's tables as a guide to race category is a waste of time, even though Andy never said this, and agreed to create the table as a category guide.
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby toolonglegs » Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:36 pm

Actually my consensus is I will take the word of someone who knows Coogan personally and professionally and has a pretty solid reputation for knowing his stuff inside and out.
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby winstonw » Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:38 pm

toolonglegs wrote:Actually my consensus is I will take the word of someone who knows Coogan personally and professionally and has a pretty solid reputation for knowing his stuff inside and out.


Personally, I avoid the cult of personality worship.... And believe Andy didn't intend to waste anyone's time.
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby Marty Moose » Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:51 pm

Interesting thread but you guys are feeding a Troll and his appetite is growing .......... Is there doping in C grade maybe there is :mrgreen: Nice links to the dopers I enjoyed reading that.

MM
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby winstonw » Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:57 pm

Marty Moose wrote:Interesting thread but you guys are feeding a Troll and his appetite is growing
MM


Yes, that must be it. A nice simple explanation for nice simple minds.
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby twizzle » Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:10 pm

winstonw wrote:
Marty Moose wrote:Interesting thread but you guys are feeding a Troll and his appetite is growing
MM


Yes, that must be it. A nice simple explanation for nice simple minds.


As opposed to over-analysing everything?


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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby ft_critical » Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:29 pm

winstonw wrote: Yes, that must be it. A nice simple explanation for nice simple minds.


Pop your reports in the Race Report thread and let us know how your theory evolves, won't you.
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby ZepinAtor » Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:11 pm

twizzle wrote:
ZepinAtor wrote:
toolonglegs wrote:Pretty much becoming as yawnful as the MHL one.


Only 191 pages to catch up or yawn to the power of 4 million trillion.

Any more of this dribble & we'll have a ban on power data or the BPL thread (ban power laws)


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Re: Doping in C-grade ?

Postby toolonglegs » Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:07 am

winstonw wrote:
toolonglegs wrote:Actually my consensus is I will take the word of someone who knows Coogan personally and professionally and has a pretty solid reputation for knowing his stuff inside and out.


Personally, I avoid the cult of personality worship.... And believe Andy didn't intend to waste anyone's time.


Why don't you just ask in him in the forums he is regularly on, or just email him and get him to comment on this thread... pretty sure he probably would.
Then we can see where an Australian C grade Vets for example fits on a chart that relates to US Cats... from what I understand Cat1 on that Chart would be roughly equal to a National Open level in Oz. Cat 3 would be equal to an average Australian A - B club grade somewhere there abouts. C grade club would be somewhere in the Cat 4 - 5 area... but depends where you race, who & how many turns up, if it is flat or hilly etc etc.Yes I can see how comparing more power numbers to that chart can tell me so much about who I will be racing and how I will do.
Bollocks.
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