Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

open topic, for anything cycling related.

Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby il padrone » Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:47 am

GraemeL wrote:There is always a risk, mistakes are made.

Please re-read my post, especially noting the time of night and the circumstances. The only way a mistake could have occurred was if I fell off my bike and lay on the road for several minutes :roll:
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 18248
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

by BNA » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:00 am

BNA
 

Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby human909 » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:00 am

Philipthelam wrote:how do you know the intersection is a "truly empty intersection"? If there is a green light cars don't look and don't expect for a vehicle to be going across their path. You might look right, then look left, then go and there might be a car coming on the right that you missed. Of course there is a risk.

You know by checking with your eyes. The same thing you have been doing at GIVE WAY and STOP signed intersections. And the same as you are doing if you cross any road. If you can't trust yourself to do this then I'm surprised you even ride a bike.

Philipthelam wrote:Il padrone look through the full posts before you make a comment. Even though he said "The vast majority of the time I simply stop for red lights" I doubt that Human909 does this when he makes comments like
human909 wrote: I treat all intersections the same way as I treat a STOP sign even if there is a GREEN light or a continuing road.

How do you come to that conclusion Philipthelam? By that comment I am saying that I will check for and give way to all traffic entering the intersection or on an intercepting path with me. Most of the time at traffic lights I will wait for the traffic to stop and the light to go green before I bother a thorough check and proceeding. If there is a red light and no traffic then I MAY check for safe passage and proceed.

Philipthelam wrote:I find it funny how many of the people that say they run red lights here are the same ones that have posted they don't like/don't wear helmets. Shows what kind of people these guys are.

What kinda of people is that Philipthelam? Did you mean those have lived in Amsterdam and seen how much better cycling can be? Those that don't believe everything the government tells us? Please do elaborate, I would like to hear what you are attempting to imply.

GraemeL wrote:There is always a risk, mistakes are made.

How do you ever manage to negotiate non traffic light controlled intersections?
human909
 
Posts: 4762
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:48 am

Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby Oxford » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:09 am

no quick check, not April 1st, people are serious about this.

really beginning to think cyclists really are their own worst enemy. if you honestly think you should be able to pick and choose which traffic laws you obey and not make more sensible choices when they go against you, please do not complain about other road users' behaviour, it reeks of double standards.
Building more roads to prevent congestion is like a fat man loosening his belt to prevent obesity.
- Lewis Mumford
User avatar
Oxford
 
Posts: 4912
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:49 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby il padrone » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:26 am

Oxford wrote:really beginning to think cyclists really are their own worst enemy. if you honestly think you should be able to pick and choose which traffic laws you obey and not make more sensible choices when they go against you,

The 'sensible choice' that applies to all road users is to proceed with caution , giving way to any traffic, if the lights are faulty ie. if you have waited for at least one full cycle of the lights and they have not detected your presence.

Again, in my case this was at 11.30pm-midnight. The lights did not register my presence. There was no traffic. Others face this at 6.00am. It is a very specific circumstance, I'm not trying to give some general exemption.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 18248
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby JustJames » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:36 am

This is all very 'tree falling in the forest with nobody to hear it'.

If a cyclist goes through a red light when there is traffic around, he is being a dick, for a whole bunch of reasons. One of those reasons is that it p's off motorists who feel frustrated because they are obeying the road rules. If there is no traffic anywhere in sight on the green, but there are motorists in the queue on red, a cyclist should wait. The motorised traffic will trip the lights and all will be well.

But if there is no motorised traffic in any direction, then a cyclist treating the red light as a stop sign is just being sensible.

This stuff really isn't hard, red herrings about shoplifting notwithstanding. I'm amazed that this thread didn't just die out after the first few responses.

Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools.
My bike blog. Long on rumination, rambling and opinion. Why let facts ruin everything?

http://pedallingcharm.wordpress.com/
User avatar
JustJames
 
Posts: 501
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:50 am

Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby Oxford » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:13 am

getting off and walking is sensible on two levels. its safer if something unexpected does happen and its not likely to get you into as much trouble with the law as riding through a red light. you are going to have no trouble explaining to a rozzer why you are walking your bike out of and around an intersection, only a hard nose will ticket you for that. riding through however, you're just making it too easy for them and harder for yourself to explain it away.

now are we going to hear the bleeding heart stories about my cycling shoes aren't made for walking in?

really I could care less except that I am a little disappointed that people can dream up all sorts of reasons, excuses, insults and basically crap arguments for breaking the law when they do not suit.
Building more roads to prevent congestion is like a fat man loosening his belt to prevent obesity.
- Lewis Mumford
User avatar
Oxford
 
Posts: 4912
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:49 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby TimW » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:17 am

rozzer
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Image
User avatar
TimW
 
Posts: 1361
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:37 pm
Location: Near the M7C

Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby HelmutHerr » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:28 am

TimW wrote:
rozzer
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Well, he is "Oxford". He can call the bill what he likes. The peelers aren't going to throw him in a panda for it.

I'm more upset by "I could care less". :)
HelmutHerr
 
Posts: 143
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:16 pm

Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby JustJames » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:38 am

HelmutHerr wrote:
TimW wrote:
rozzer
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Well, he is "Oxford". He can call the bill what he likes. The peelers aren't going to throw him in a panda for it.

I'm more upset by "I could care less". :)


I, for one, am deeply offended by the utter lack of respect for the rules of punctuation.

If somebody is going to be this careless driving a keyboard, can you imagine the havoc they must wreak out on the roads? After all, it's not like you can pick and choose which rules to obey, is it?
My bike blog. Long on rumination, rambling and opinion. Why let facts ruin everything?

http://pedallingcharm.wordpress.com/
User avatar
JustJames
 
Posts: 501
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:50 am

Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby HelmutHerr » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:49 am

JustJames wrote:If somebody is going to be this careless driving a keyboard, can you imagine the havoc they must wreak out on the roads? After all, it's not like you can pick and choose which rules to obey, is it?

You can't hold all internet commenters responsible for the grammar crimes of a few. Your right to split infinitives ends when they reach my Strunk & White.
HelmutHerr
 
Posts: 143
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:16 pm

Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby JustJames » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:55 am

HelmutHerr wrote:You can't hold all internet commenters responsible for the grammar crimes of a few. Your right to split infinitives ends when they reach my Strunk & White.


Had to google Strunk & White...which led me to this:

Image
My bike blog. Long on rumination, rambling and opinion. Why let facts ruin everything?

http://pedallingcharm.wordpress.com/
User avatar
JustJames
 
Posts: 501
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:50 am

Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby HelmutHerr » Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:03 am

Lame. Kirk/Spock is the only slashfic worth the time.
HelmutHerr
 
Posts: 143
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:16 pm

Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby TimW » Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:32 am

HelmutHerr wrote:
TimW wrote:
rozzer
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Well, he is "Oxford". He can call the bill what he likes. The peelers aren't going to throw him in a panda for it.

I'm more upset by "I could care less". :)

yes, i am beginning to see that he is certainly a unique individual, that was unique not Eunuch :mrgreen:
Image
User avatar
TimW
 
Posts: 1361
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:37 pm
Location: Near the M7C

Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby human909 » Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:57 pm

Oxford wrote:getting off and walking is sensible on two levels. its safer if something unexpected does happen

I fail to see how.

Oxford wrote:and its not likely to get you into as much trouble with the law as riding through a red light.

Which I don't think is particularly relevant in this discussion. Those who ignore red lights by-enlarge accept the fact that they are breaking the law and will get fined if caught. Pedestrians also get fined for walking against red lights that doesn't stop them doing it.

Oxford wrote:really I could care less except that I am a little disappointed that people can dream up all sorts of reasons, excuses, insults and basically crap arguments for breaking the law when they do not suit.

We ALL break the law Oxford. Don't pretend for a second that you don't also break laws when they do not suit.
human909
 
Posts: 4762
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:48 am

Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby il padrone » Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:02 pm

human909 wrote:
Oxford wrote:really I could care less except that I am a little disappointed that people can dream up all sorts of reasons, excuses, insults and basically crap arguments for breaking the law when they do not suit.

We ALL break the law Oxford. Don't pretend for a second that you don't also break laws when they do not suit.

Hmm...

Rolling along the footpath, riding across pedestrian crossings, not stopping completely at stop signs, doing a u-turn across a solid line ????

Yes, we all do things that are rule-breakers, cyclists, drivers, even Oxford I'm sure.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 18248
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby Oxford » Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:04 pm

I care less simply because I do not ride anymore and any negativity upon the cycling fraternity will not impact me directly. Its you as riders/cyclists that are impacted by the actions of those who are choosing what laws apply to them.

And if my ability to procreate is the sole factor in being a eunuch, then yes I am a eunuch in that regard.
Building more roads to prevent congestion is like a fat man loosening his belt to prevent obesity.
- Lewis Mumford
User avatar
Oxford
 
Posts: 4912
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:49 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby Oxford » Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:18 pm

human909 wrote:
Oxford wrote:getting off and walking is sensible on two levels. its safer if something unexpected does happen

I fail to see how.

Oxford wrote:and its not likely to get you into as much trouble with the law as riding through a red light.

Which I don't think is particularly relevant in this discussion. Those who ignore red lights by-enlarge accept the fact that they are breaking the law and will get fined if caught. Pedestrians also get fined for walking against red lights that doesn't stop them doing it.

Oxford wrote:really I could care less except that I am a little disappointed that people can dream up all sorts of reasons, excuses, insults and basically crap arguments for breaking the law when they do not suit.

We ALL break the law Oxford. Don't pretend for a second that you don't also break laws when they do not suit.

I cannot help you with your failing to understand something this simple.

No, people still whine when they get caught breaking the law and think it is unfair even when they know they have blatantly done wrong. Worse still when its incontrovertibly shown to them such as video and they still try to justify it somehow.

I'm not pretending I don't break the law, I'm just not trying to justify it to anyone. I know for a fact that I probably break the law somehow everyday, but I do not go out of my way to blatantly break laws and then try to come up with lame reasons justifying it.

So please play the argument not the man, its not about me and what I do and me justifying myself. Its about cyclists in general justifying why they think they should somehow be exempt from traffic regulations at their discretion for some whatever reason when they feel they should be exempt.
Building more roads to prevent congestion is like a fat man loosening his belt to prevent obesity.
- Lewis Mumford
User avatar
Oxford
 
Posts: 4912
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:49 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby The 2nd Womble » Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:48 pm

This is my first reply to this thread and coincidentally my last...

Image

'Nuff said.
The only good Cyclist is a Bicyclist

Huge fan of booted RGers who just can't help themselves
User avatar
The 2nd Womble
 
Posts: 3058
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:21 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby Baldy » Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:14 pm

Dunno why you would run red lights. You are missing out on quality nose picking time.
Baldy
 
Posts: 1669
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:55 pm

Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby JustJames » Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:22 pm

Baldy wrote:Dunno why you would run red lights. You are missing out on quality nose picking time.


But you need the invisibility cloak conferred by a motor vehicle to do it in private.

We cyclists need to blast through those red lights to get to our cars sooner, so we can pick our noses in absolute privacy.

Geez, Baldy, what a noob mistake to make. :roll:
My bike blog. Long on rumination, rambling and opinion. Why let facts ruin everything?

http://pedallingcharm.wordpress.com/
User avatar
JustJames
 
Posts: 501
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:50 am

Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby Undertow » Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:23 pm

Oxford wrote:I cannot help you with your failing to understand something this simple.

No, people still whine when they get caught breaking the law and think it is unfair even when they know they have blatantly done wrong. Worse still when its incontrovertibly shown to them such as video and they still try to justify it somehow.

I'm not pretending I don't break the law, I'm just not trying to justify it to anyone. I know for a fact that I probably break the law somehow everyday, but I do not go out of my way to blatantly break laws and then try to come up with lame reasons justifying it.

So please play the argument not the man, its not about me and what I do and me justifying myself. Its about cyclists in general justifying why they think they should somehow be exempt from traffic regulations at their discretion for some whatever reason when they feel they should be exempt.


So you're saying that you break laws for the hell of it with no justification? In my opinion that's worse than breaking laws that you feel are unjust.
Image
Undertow
 
Posts: 270
Joined: Sat May 29, 2010 12:25 pm

Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby il padrone » Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:25 pm

Oxford wrote:Its about cyclists in general justifying why they think they should somehow be exempt from traffic regulations at their discretion for some whatever reason when they feel they should be exempt.

You have it wrong there. It's not simply about cyclists. The rule on faulty lights is quite a clear one. If I was stopped at a right turn lane in my car and the sensor had failed to detect me, after I had sat through one or two cycles of the light not going green, I would also proceed if safe, giving way to the right and oncoming vehicles.

And it would be within the law.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 18248
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby boss » Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:36 pm

Undertow wrote:
Oxford wrote:I cannot help you with your failing to understand something this simple.

No, people still whine when they get caught breaking the law and think it is unfair even when they know they have blatantly done wrong. Worse still when its incontrovertibly shown to them such as video and they still try to justify it somehow.

I'm not pretending I don't break the law, I'm just not trying to justify it to anyone. I know for a fact that I probably break the law somehow everyday, but I do not go out of my way to blatantly break laws and then try to come up with lame reasons justifying it.

So please play the argument not the man, its not about me and what I do and me justifying myself. Its about cyclists in general justifying why they think they should somehow be exempt from traffic regulations at their discretion for some whatever reason when they feel they should be exempt.


So you're saying that you break laws for the hell of it with no justification? In my opinion that's worse than breaking laws that you feel are unjust.


Oxford can correct me, but I don't think he was saying he breaks laws 'just for the hell of it'.

And I don't think the whingers he mentioned were breaking laws that they genuinely felt were unjust.

I believe he was referring to two people, breaking the same law (maybe walking against a red man on a traffic crossing when safe to do so, something trivial like that)... Person A (the whinger) gets picked up, has a sook about how the police should be dealing with bigger issues. Person B (Oxford) would take it on the chin, understand he broke the law simply for his own convenience, and take the ramifications on the chin.
boss
 
Posts: 1150
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:58 pm

Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby Undertow » Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:53 pm

jimboss wrote:
Undertow wrote:
Oxford wrote:I cannot help you with your failing to understand something this simple.

No, people still whine when they get caught breaking the law and think it is unfair even when they know they have blatantly done wrong. Worse still when its incontrovertibly shown to them such as video and they still try to justify it somehow.

I'm not pretending I don't break the law, I'm just not trying to justify it to anyone. I know for a fact that I probably break the law somehow everyday, but I do not go out of my way to blatantly break laws and then try to come up with lame reasons justifying it.

So please play the argument not the man, its not about me and what I do and me justifying myself. Its about cyclists in general justifying why they think they should somehow be exempt from traffic regulations at their discretion for some whatever reason when they feel they should be exempt.


So you're saying that you break laws for the hell of it with no justification? In my opinion that's worse than breaking laws that you feel are unjust.


Oxford can correct me, but I don't think he was saying he breaks laws 'just for the hell of it'.

And I don't think the whingers he mentioned were breaking laws that they genuinely felt were unjust.

I believe he was referring to two people, breaking the same law (maybe walking against a red man on a traffic crossing when safe to do so, something trivial like that)... Person A (the whinger) gets picked up, has a sook about how the police should be dealing with bigger issues. Person B (Oxford) would take it on the chin, understand he broke the law simply for his own convenience, and take the ramifications on the chin.


What about person C who explains why the law is unjust and attempts to fight the charge in court without having a sook?
Image
Undertow
 
Posts: 270
Joined: Sat May 29, 2010 12:25 pm

Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby poohkies » Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:09 pm

i'm not the best for this,

I've only been riding for a few months now, and depending if i'm on the road or path, i'll cross on the path, I never wait for the light to go green, as a driver is pisses me off to sit there when someone has hit the button and crossed, so i cross if the traffic is flowing the same way

I also don't do round abouts, I'll cross to the inside lane and then cross to get to the bike path on the other side of the road, I'll mostly do this at pace so I can get of the road as quick as possible,

On the way to work I ride along the road, there is a bike path or bike lane 90% of the way, at which I will abid by the road rules and stop at red lights etc!

regards
Image
User avatar
poohkies
 
Posts: 414
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:00 am
Location: Brisbane Kenmore

PreviousNext

Return to General discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AndyRevill, TrikeTragic



Popular Bike Shops
Torpedo 7 Torpedo7 AU
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Ebay Ebay AU

“Bicycles BNA Twitter
“Bicycles BNA Facebook
“Google+ BNA Google+
“Bicycles BNA Newsletter

> FREE BNA Stickers
> BNA Cycling Kit