Moron Motorists #3

[silentC]

Yeah but like I said, if the car in the left lane is going past your exit and you are in the centre lane, someone has to give way to someone.

Say you enter at 12 o'clock intending to exit at 9 o'clock. You must be in the centre lane. Another car enters at 6 o'clock intending to exit at 12 o'clock. They are allowed to do that from the left lane and they don't have to give way to you on entry because you are in the centre lane. You now need to traverse the left lane to exit but there is a car beside you. Who gives way to whom?

[wellington_street]

I think 'give way to traffic already in the roundabout' has primacy in this situation - pulling into the circulating lane next to a vehicle already in the roundabout is not necessarily giving way, as they will need to exit at some point and to do that they must diverge left.

It doesn't seem like many people have actually thought about this - and I disagree that a roundabout is designed for what bychosis is saying. The only reason for 2 circulating lanes is to allow 2 lanes of traffic to enter from the same leg at the same time. Roundabouts OTOH are actually designed specifically to allow u-turns to reach driveways on the other side of the road, thereby requiring a driver to make that lane change as you exit.

Either way, I think you are putting yourself at unnecessary risk if you enter a roundabout next to a vehicle already in the roundabout (note: not another vehicle from your same leg) thereby blocking or partially blocking their ability to exit into the left lane.

[silentC]

Ah, so you are one of those drivers are you?

[wellington_street]

I am (mostly) a defensive driver, so perhaps

And to be fair to bychosis, it doesn't sound like the offending driver had any real reason to change lanes when he/she did - this topic has just come up in another group I'm in so I took it and ran with it here.

[bychosis]

I am (mostly) a defensive driver, so perhaps

And to be fair to bychosis, it doesn't sound like the offending driver had any real reason to change lanes when he/she did - this topic has just come up in another group I'm in so I took it and ran with it here.

I entered the roundabout just behind the car turning right. At the particular roundabout it is very busy and picking a gap like I often do is the only way to get through. I only do it when the vehicle is indicating a right turn, knowing that there is room for two cars on the way out. Have done it twice a week for a year and only had a few try to merge on top of me in the last two weeks.

It's a classic example of a roundabout not coping with the traffic volume, all approaches are congested and you need to pick small gaps or wait for a long time. When vehicles change lanes mid roundabout it makes getting through the roundabout less efficient. There has been talk for years of changing this one to Traffic lights, which would be a massive improvement.

[redsonic]

I am not sure if other states have this, but Queensland introduced 'exit line' markings to re-inforce the need for a car crossing lanes on the exit of a roundabout to give way to traffic to their left.

Qld Transport Lane Markings at intersections

i. Exit lines shall be marked at multi-lane roundabouts, except where geometric restrictions prohibit their safe use or where combinations of single lane exits and high turning traffic volumes can lead to operational difficulties. A typical example is shown in Figure 2.7. 
Exit lines shall:
• comprise a special purpose lane line (see Figure 5.1) 

• have a minimum of three segments marked per exit line 

• commence from a line drawn tangentially from the central island to the splitter island exit edge line at the previous exit, and 

• extend far enough into the roundabout exit to provide satisfactory guidance for exiting vehicles. 


Figure 4.2.2(Q) – Roundabout pavement markings – four two-lane entry/exits


Notes
1. Exit lines are marked as 9 m line, 3 m gap.
2. Line marking not to leave an excessively large internal lane.
3. The first pavement arrow shall be spaced at a distance of 15–30 m from the give way line.


I still would be very careful of a car on my right I had decided to share the roundabout with...

[hamishm]

I think 'give way to traffic already in the roundabout' has primacy in this situation - pulling into the circulating lane next to a vehicle already in the roundabout is not necessarily giving way, as they will need to exit at some point and to do that they must diverge left.

I agree. If I was making a right turn in a multi-lane roundabout, which required a lane change to make the exit, I'd be pretty peeved if someone entering the roundabout after me had blocked my path.

[BenGr]

Hopefully roundabouts are setup so the left lane can only go straight or left, so there shouldn't be any issues either way. This is one reason why I refuse to use the bike lanes that go around the outside (you are required to giveway to exiting traffic).

[Sully]

The bike lanes around the outside of roundabouts are bloody dangerous. I've nearly been killed using them and I refuse to now.

[kenwstr]

The roundabout design I encounted in England seemed much easier and safer than what we have in Aus.
The left lane always exits, and all lanes shift left, opening a new middle lane.
The approach has the same number of lanes as the roundabout. on the approach, you have to get in the correct lane for what you want to do. You do not change lanes on the roundabout, you simply stay in your lane which then exits you accordingly.

For a 3 lane roundabout, on the approach, left will turn left, middle for 2nd exit and right for 3rd or later exit. if you want the 4th exit, you get in the middle lane for exit 3. This takes you to the roundabout inside lane, as a new inside lane begins, you simply move into it. This will then take you to the 4th exit. Simples!

It may sound like you have to give way to a lot of traffic to enter from the right lane but remember, the left lane always exits so that only leaves 2 continuing lanes to give way too. Hard to describe I guess, a picture would help but having grown up and learn't to drive in Aus, I found the British ones much easier to manage.

[wellington_street]

I am not sure if other states have this, but Queensland introduced 'exit line' markings to re-inforce the need for a car crossing lanes on the exit of a roundabout to give way to traffic to their left.

Qld Transport Lane Markings at intersections

i. Exit lines shall be marked at multi-lane roundabouts, except where geometric restrictions prohibit their safe use or where combinations of single lane exits and high turning traffic volumes can lead to operational difficulties. A typical example is shown in Figure 2.7. 
Exit lines shall:
• comprise a special purpose lane line (see Figure 5.1) 

• have a minimum of three segments marked per exit line 

• commence from a line drawn tangentially from the central island to the splitter island exit edge line at the previous exit, and 

• extend far enough into the roundabout exit to provide satisfactory guidance for exiting vehicles. 


Figure 4.2.2(Q) – Roundabout pavement markings – four two-lane entry/exits


Notes
1. Exit lines are marked as 9 m line, 3 m gap.
2. Line marking not to leave an excessively large internal lane.
3. The first pavement arrow shall be spaced at a distance of 15–30 m from the give way line.


I still would be very careful of a car on my right I had decided to share the roundabout with...

Good move to make this mandatory. It has been used on an experimental basis already and I think it is a massive improvement to clarity. Also referred to as 'turbo' markings.

[redsonic]

Good move to make this mandatory. It has been used on an experimental basis already and I think it is a massive improvement to clarity. Also referred to as 'turbo' markings.

Yes, the exit lines also encourage drivers entering the roundabout (in order to go straight) to give way to a car already in the centre lane, as the car entering the roundabout is crossing the line whereas the car in the centre lane can exit without crossing lines.
I know there is the rule to give way to traffic already on the roundabout, but there is a temptation to merge beside other vehicles onto multi lane roundabouts as already discussed.

[find_bruce]

Poll time. Who is the bigger moron is it

1. the numpty driving along a one way street who decides to do a u-turn & drive back the wrong way; or
2. This bloke from Drummoyne Bait & Tackle who habitually illegally parks his white nissan ute DFZ81P on the footpath & thinks that I am going to stop hassling the clowncil about it if he verbally abuses me, shapes up at me in an intimidating manner before thinking better of it & threw the contents of a can of red bull in my face.
   

[mikesbytes]

Poll time. Who is the bigger moron is it

1. the numpty driving along a one way street who decides to do a u-turn & drive back the wrong way; or
2. This bloke from Drummoyne Bait & Tackle who habitually illegally parks his white nissan ute DFZ81P on the footpath & thinks that I am going to stop hassling the clowncil about it if he verbally abuses me, shapes up at me in an intimidating manner before thinking better of it & threw the contents of a can of red bull in my face.
   

If he threw drink in your face then why not report him to the police

[fat and old]

Poll time. Who is the bigger moron is it

1. the numpty driving along a one way street who decides to do a u-turn & drive back the wrong way; or
2. This bloke from Drummoyne Bait & Tackle who habitually illegally parks his white nissan ute DFZ81P on the footpath & thinks that I am going to stop hassling the clowncil about it if he verbally abuses me, shapes up at me in an intimidating manner before thinking better of it & threw the contents of a can of red bull in my face.
   

If he threw drink in your face then why not report him to the police

Or set his car afire?

[bychosis]

Roundabouts again. Yesterday as I approached the roundabout to exit our suburb to the main road there was a long line of stopped traffic preventing people from turning left. Apparently there was an accident up the road. Mr Clever in his 4wd was stopped across the roundabout preventing us from exiting to the right. He could have crept forward enough to create enough space to allow about 4 cars to turn right into a clear roadway, but instead we all waited for several minutes until the line moved enough for him to clear the roundabout. Additionally the young woman in the car in front of me waiting to turn right did not creep forward and give Mr Clever a hint he could move and let us through.

Beats me why people must queue across intersections/roundabouts and prevent others from clearing more traffic.

[RobertL]

Beats me why people must queue across intersections/roundabouts and prevent others from clearing more traffic.

Because it doesn't even occur to them that they could possibly do so. Think of how smart the average person is, and then realise that half of them are dumber than that.

[silentC]

I think people just blindly follow the car in front. Not a lot of thought goes into it. If they do give it any thought, they probably decide they would rather hold up 10 cars than be caught having to give way/at a red light. Used to see this all the time in Sydney.

My favourite bit of sheep behaviour was an exec manager where I worked. He used to read the paper while he drove into work. Whenever the queue stopped, he'd have the SMH out on his steering wheel, and as soon as he noticed the brake lights of the car in front go out he'd also take off, sometimes without looking. Twice he rear ended the car in front because they took their foot off the brake momentarily and then stopped again.

[wellington_street]

My favourite bit of sheep behaviour was an exec manager where I worked. He used to read the paper while he drove into work. Whenever the queue stopped, he'd have the SMH out on his steering wheel, and as soon as he noticed the brake lights of the car in front go out he'd also take off, sometimes without looking. Twice he rear ended the car in front because they took their foot off the brake momentarily and then stopped again.

My Dad used to spend a lot of time driving around in traffic and would do the same thing with the SMH, or a good book. Never had a crash though as he'd never move off without looking...

[duncanm]

Beats me why people must queue across intersections/roundabouts and prevent others from clearing more traffic.

I suggest it is because they are selfish pr*cks.

[find_bruce]

If he threw drink in your face then why not report him to the police

Familiarity with the criminal justice system & the need to prove beyond reasonable doubt- the police have previously declined to take any action against a moron who pushed me over. It is not possible to use the police online portal or "assistance line" & instead requires a personal visit to my local cop shop, if there is anyone present at the time.

I will probably report it, if nothing else to have the police attend about the time he usually parks on the footpath. I may be able to get the police to obtain the closed circuit footage from his shop (he is probably not bright enough to have erased it) & the one next door (who used to park on the footpath but now appear to have stopped).

What I think is more likely to result in action is using it as an opportunity to motivate the clowncil to take action - his actions portray him as a bit unhinged. It has already prompted a personal response from my local MP.

Or set his car afire?

I know you're not serious about suggesting I respond to an escalation of minor offences by committing a major one.

[HenryCharlie]

Beats me why people must queue across intersections/roundabouts and prevent others from clearing more traffic.

I suggest it is because they are selfish pr*cks.

I suggest it's because they're stupid, selfish pricks.

[HenryCharlie]

[*]This bloke from Drummoyne Bait & Tackle who habitually illegally parks his white nissan ute DFZ81P on the footpath & thinks that I am going to stop hassling the clowncil about it if he verbally abuses me, shapes up at me in an intimidating manner before thinking better of it & threw the contents of a can of red bull in my face.

He's risking getting a big scratch down the side of his car for parking like that, imagine if someone had to squeeze through and dragged something along the side of his car.

[find_bruce]

Beats me why people must queue across intersections/roundabouts and prevent others from clearing more traffic.

I suggest it is because they are selfish pr*cks.

That and because the law against it is never enforced. Queuing across intersections is a major cause of congestion in the CBD & you regularly see electronic signs encouraging drivers not to do so , but I have never seen or heard of a police blitz on it, you know like they do to stamp out the vast number of accidents and injuries caused by bikes without bells.

[duncanm]

Beats me why people must queue across intersections/roundabouts and prevent others from clearing more traffic.

I suggest it is because they are selfish pr*cks.

That and because the law against it is never enforced. Queuing across intersections is a major cause of congestion in the CBD & you regularly see electronic signs encouraging drivers not to do so , but I have never seen or heard of a police blitz on it, you know like they do to stamp out the vast number of accidents and injuries caused by bikes without bells.

It has been known to happen:
http://www.themercury.com.au/news/tasma ... e0d1dd19c5

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/n ... e961f2b37d