Moron Motorists #3

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skull
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby skull » Wed May 21, 2014 4:35 pm

jasonc wrote:
Ross wrote:there is one and I hit it nearly every Wednesday because I forget exactly where it is and the riders in front don't point it out
sort this out, or find a new group to ride with.
Wednesday worlds bunch.

Don't ride with them is the best option. Too many riders in that bunch that have poor bunch skills.

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jules21
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jules21 » Wed May 21, 2014 4:37 pm

silentC wrote:I honestly think that a lot of these people simply don't register a push bike as traffic. I doubt it even crosses their mind to give way, no malice intended.
yes - i agree. it's like you can see the gears turning in their head as they start to question themselves - "hey, what if I was supposed to give way to the cyclist there?"

human909
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby human909 » Wed May 21, 2014 4:39 pm

InTheWoods wrote:I'm curious how the road rules apply to this situation. Not sure about canberra, but in qld cyclists are required to use bicycle lanes where practicable.

But does this mean a bunch has to go single file in order to fit in the bicycle lane (riding in single file is practicable, depending on the length of the lane etc). Or does riding two abreast mean it is not practicable for one rider to use the bicycle lane so it is ok to go on the road lane. Which takes precedence?
If the bike lane is safe and practical to use then cyclists should use it. Cyclist who are ignoring the bike lane simply to ride in a bunch are clearly breaking the road rules. (I'm not arguing against this behavior, talking about the law.)

Cycle bunches who insist on riding in the traffic lane when there is a bicycle lane alongside should ride fully in the traffic lane. This behavior is safer for the bunch. Riding with half the bunch in the bike lane and half the bunch in the road is asking for trouble AND removing any legal wriggle room of claiming the bike lane is not practical to use.

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silentC
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby silentC » Wed May 21, 2014 4:41 pm

the usage of a proper bike lane isn't concerned with how easy it is to chat on the morning bunchie
What kind of crazy, mixed up world IS this!?
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Xplora
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Xplora » Wed May 21, 2014 4:52 pm

silentC wrote:
the usage of a proper bike lane isn't concerned with how easy it is to chat on the morning bunchie
What kind of crazy, mixed up world IS this!?
I KNOW. THE MADNESS :x

:lol:

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby wellington_street » Wed May 21, 2014 4:56 pm

human909 wrote:
InTheWoods wrote:I'm curious how the road rules apply to this situation. Not sure about canberra, but in qld cyclists are required to use bicycle lanes where practicable.

But does this mean a bunch has to go single file in order to fit in the bicycle lane (riding in single file is practicable, depending on the length of the lane etc). Or does riding two abreast mean it is not practicable for one rider to use the bicycle lane so it is ok to go on the road lane. Which takes precedence?
If the bike lane is safe and practical to use then cyclists should use it. Cyclist who are ignoring the bike lane simply to ride in a bunch are clearly breaking the road rules. (I'm not arguing against this behavior, talking about the law.)

Cycle bunches who insist on riding in the traffic lane when there is a bicycle lane alongside should ride fully in the traffic lane. This behavior is safer for the bunch. Riding with half the bunch in the bike lane and half the bunch in the road is asking for trouble AND removing any legal wriggle room of claiming the bike lane is not practical to use.
Absolutely correct.

GSV seems to confirm my recollections (from a while ago now) that it is actually a proper cycle lane.

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InTheWoods
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby InTheWoods » Wed May 21, 2014 5:02 pm

Thanks human, your answer was kind of what I expected. I very very rarely ride in a bunch so never really had to think about it before.

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find_bruce
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby find_bruce » Wed May 21, 2014 5:23 pm

From wellington_street's link to google, it appears to be a bike lane & be a multi lane road.

There is no road rule that says cyclists must be in single file or that prevents cyclists from riding 2 abreast.

The fact that other cyclists are in the bicycle lane says to me that it is impracticable to occupy the same space.

WarbyD
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby WarbyD » Wed May 21, 2014 5:54 pm

There is also nothing that forces them to ride 2 abreast, so if there is nothing preventing them from moving to single file then if a road rule requires them to use the bike lane where practicable (I don't know, but impression I get from the previous couple of posts is that this is the case) then the expectation would be that they maintain single file if that's what is needed to use that bike lane.

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Xplora
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Xplora » Wed May 21, 2014 6:02 pm

Say no to Bike Lanes and protected lanes of all kinds ^^^ 2 abreast bunchie FTW.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Scott_C » Wed May 21, 2014 6:13 pm

find_bruce wrote:The fact that other cyclists are in the bicycle lane says to me that it is impracticable to occupy the same space.
I don't think that the presence of other bicycles makes it sufficiently impractical to use the bike lane. I could see this as a valid defence for being outside the bicycle lane for as long as it takes to slow down and merge into a single line but not for a sustained distance. Whilst going single file may be awkward and undesirable I haven't ever found it to be impractical.

The relevant rule has a different phrasing in WA that requires the use of the bicycle lane unless the lane is not in a reasonable condition which would not be dependent upon the presence of other cyclists or not:
WA Road Traffic Code 2000 Reg 213 wrote:Wherever a bicycle lane is provided as part of a carriageway, and is in a reasonable condition for use, a rider of a bicycle shall use that portion of a carriageway and no other.
Australian Road Rules (ACT) Reg 247 wrote:The rider of a bicycle riding on a length of road with a bicycle lane designed for bicycles travelling in the same
direction as the rider must ride in the bicycle lane unless it is impracticable to do so.
Of course the WA rule has a problem in that it makes no allowance to leave the lane to (for example) turn right. The other difference between the rules is that the WA rule doesn't let you ride on the shoulder if there is a bike lane whereas the Australia Road Rules version of the rule allows you to ride in the bicycle lane or in a road-related area.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby human909 » Wed May 21, 2014 6:45 pm

Scott_C wrote:Of course the WA rule has a problem in that it makes no allowance to leave the lane to (for example) turn right. The other difference between the rules is that the WA rule doesn't let you ride on the shoulder if there is a bike lane whereas the Australia Road Rules version of the rule allows you to ride in the bicycle lane or in a road-related area.
I'm not sure whether any state has specific rules allowing cyclists to leave the lane to turn right etc... In Victoria the phrase "unless it is impracticable to do so" is attached. I choose to interpret this quite broadly. :wink:

jasonc
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jasonc » Wed May 21, 2014 7:23 pm

if you're doing a rolling paceline, you could say you are overtaking :D

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby maestro » Wed May 21, 2014 7:39 pm

find_bruce wrote:The fact that other cyclists are in the bicycle lane says to me that it is impracticable to occupy the same space.
Oh HELL no!!! Don't set that precedent!

NSW rule 158-2-a allows cars to drive in a bicycle lane if necessary to avoid an obstruction... We don't want them using your logic and taking over the bicycle lanes just because there are already cars on the road!

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London Boy
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby London Boy » Wed May 21, 2014 9:33 pm

WarbyD wrote:There is also nothing that forces them to ride 2 abreast, so if there is nothing preventing them from moving to single file then if a road rule requires them to use the bike lane where practicable (I don't know, but impression I get from the previous couple of posts is that this is the case) then the expectation would be that they maintain single file if that's what is needed to use that bike lane.
Except the law does not apply to the bunch, it applies to the individual cyclist. And clearly it is impracticable to ride in the gutter, sorry, I meant bicycle lane, if there is already a cyclist in it.

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find_bruce
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby find_bruce » Wed May 21, 2014 10:13 pm

Leaving aside the exciting questions of statutory construction for a moment.

Saw a very serious incident unfolding before me on the way home today on Darling Drive, Sydney - the Exhibition Centre has been demolished & the road dramatically narrowed from the shown on Google street view. Gone are 2 lanes of traffic & the green painted bike lanes. In their place is a poorly designed path that fails to meet any requirements of the road rules or Australian design criteria - there is a concrete "jersey barrier" intended to keep cars out & bicycles in.

One of the issues with the path is the regular gaps in the barrier & so the path gets used by construction vehicles, broken down cars etc. Tonight some moron decided to "change lanes" onto the path at around 40-50 km/h straight into the face of an oncoming cyclist. Somehow the moron came to his senses & managed to stop before driving straight over her. Poor lady had nowhere to go on account of how there was a 1m high concrete barrier to her left and right.

I was shaken just watching it. Sadly my gopro did not pick up the number plate in the dark

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby WarbyD » Wed May 21, 2014 10:30 pm

London Boy wrote:
WarbyD wrote:There is also nothing that forces them to ride 2 abreast, so if there is nothing preventing them from moving to single file then if a road rule requires them to use the bike lane where practicable (I don't know, but impression I get from the previous couple of posts is that this is the case) then the expectation would be that they maintain single file if that's what is needed to use that bike lane.
Except the law does not apply to the bunch, it applies to the individual cyclist. And clearly it is impracticable to ride in the gutter, sorry, I meant bicycle lane, if there is already a cyclist in it.
....what? Sorry, but that is just stupid. Not even worth going into the why... Good luck with that.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby nitestick » Thu May 22, 2014 1:08 am

Just had my first real "I'm sorry, I didn't see you". Heading north on Waneroo road, woman rolls through a stop sign and nearly side swipes me. Fortunately I saw it coming, sped up and veered to avoid the collision course. She paced me and said "I'm so sorry, I didn't see you there". Surprising myself given the event and the fact I was puffing up hill on my single speed, I responded with a calm "there's no excuse, you rolled through a stop sign; please obey the law"... to which she dumbly repeated "I'm so sorry".

I hope she is and this means others won't be jeopardised.

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Ross
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Ross » Thu May 22, 2014 6:50 am

Xplora wrote:ITW, he did say "cycle lane" as opposed to a Cycle Lane. I'm guessing breakdown lane?

Either way, you'd be forced to go single file because the usage of a proper bike lane isn't concerned with how easy it is to chat on the morning bunchie.
Technically it is a bike lane, but originally when the road was built way back in 1980s or perhaps earlier it was just a breakdown lane. Govco just came along one day with a stencil of a bicycle and some paint and voila it's suddenly a bike lane. It's not well maintained, there is leaves and other tree debris, not to menton gravel and assorted crap that has fallen off tradie utes. Did I mention the tree roots trying to push through the bitumen in places? The width isn't consistent either, it goes from being around 3m wide in places to around 1m in places. The Friday bunch that goes along this same route at the same time usually takes the complete car lane.

I think 20 or 30 riders strung out in single file would be more disruptive to the the 6 cars we see. All drivers need to do is to indicate and move to the other lane. No effort at all.

As far as the skills of the ridrs in the bunch, it's generally OK. Apart from not calling the pothole, there was a couple of guys that used to bunnyhop various obstacles which used to annoy me. but I haven't seen them for a while, maybe the cooler weather is turning them off riding. I rode with another bunch last Friday and it was way more disorganised than Wednesday one.

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Ross
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Ross » Thu May 22, 2014 6:58 am

Jan Ullrich admits causing three-car crash (and possibly DUI)

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... ash-123941" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.sbs.com.au/cyclingcentral/ne ... wiss-crash" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Image
Last edited by Ross on Thu May 22, 2014 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

wellington_street
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby wellington_street » Thu May 22, 2014 11:03 am

Morons out and about this morning, certainly has cleared my headache!

1. I'm claiming the lane, riding at ~35-40km/h and approaching a set of lights where the right lane becomes a right turn only lane and my lane goes straight (and the road becomes a 40km/h zone). MM1 decides to overtake using the right turn lane but the light goes yellow as he's next to me so instead of accelerating through, he decides to swerve right over into my lane and pull up at the stop line.

2. Due to needing to take evasive action to avoid MM1, I couldn't shift down before stopping, so I'm struggling to get going once it goes green. I move over to the left as it's a section of wider road, to allow 2 or 3 drivers past until the road narrows and I'm back up to speed. 3 go past and then the road narrows so I'm back in the lane, MM2 who was 4th in line decides to overtake half across double lines but I'm only ~40m from the back of the queue so he then swerves left and stops right in front of me. Thankfully the light was about to go green so after a few select words to describe his character and driving, I was able to filter past the traffic and disappear.

That's a bad day for me on my regular commute so I suppose I'm lucky reading other posts here...

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby nitestick » Thu May 22, 2014 11:51 am

I narrowly avoided being sideswiped by a lane hopping senior citizen today. I was in the left hand lane which is full of parked cars for local businesses, right lane is a steady stream of traffic. I was getting ready to merge in to avoid the parked cars and she pulls in on me, I had to pull leftward to avoid her. she then forcibly merges back in and repeats the manouvre 3 times to my astonishment, weaving her way up the line, dodging parked cars. She probably made about 10 seconds of gains in traffic while slowing everyone down and nearly injuring myself.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby hannos » Thu May 22, 2014 12:52 pm

I almost hit a cat on my commute this morning.




Damn thing wanted me to feed it (more!) breakfast before i walked from the kitchen to the office at home. :twisted:
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jasonc » Thu May 22, 2014 1:00 pm

hannos wrote:I almost hit a cat on my commute this morning.




Damn thing wanted me to feed it (more!) breakfast before i walked from the kitchen to the office at home. :twisted:
wouldn't that go in the dumb pedestrians thread? :D

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hannos
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby hannos » Thu May 22, 2014 1:14 pm

jasonc wrote:
hannos wrote:I almost hit a cat on my commute this morning.




Damn thing wanted me to feed it (more!) breakfast before i walked from the kitchen to the office at home. :twisted:
wouldn't that go in the dumb pedestrians thread? :D
Dammit! yeah...
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