Moron Motorists #3

[Lukeyboy]

Generally speaking s cyclist who hits a ped has to deal with that collision and the collision with the ground at most of the same velocity that follows. Generally speaking given equal health the cyclist is likely to be hurt worst. Just saying.

Not entirely. In most cases where the ped isn't clipped they take the brunt of the impact. There's been a few deaths of recent where the cyclist has been uninjured while the ped has been stuck and killed - IIRC all have been from head injuries either from the impact or hitting their head on the ground.

[softy]

Generally speaking s cyclist who hits a ped has to deal with that collision and the collision with the ground at most of the same velocity that follows. Generally speaking given equal health the cyclist is likely to be hurt worst. Just saying.

Not entirely. In most cases where the ped isn't clipped they take the brunt of the impact. There's been a few deaths of recent where the cyclist has been uninjured while the ped has been stuck and killed - IIRC all have been from head injuries either from the impact or hitting their head on the ground.

That is what the bell is for. Use it! Or shout out.

If peds are texting, listening to an ipod at 110db, well you can make own judgement.

[Percrime]

In most cases where the ped isn't clipped they take the brunt of the impact. There's been a few deaths of recent where the cyclist has been uninjured while the ped has been stuck and killed - IIRC all have been from head injuries either from the impact or hitting their head on the ground.

A few? Of recent? Ok .. give me.. say 5 in the last 10 years

[ldrcycles]

In most cases where the ped isn't clipped they take the brunt of the impact. There's been a few deaths of recent where the cyclist has been uninjured while the ped has been stuck and killed - IIRC all have been from head injuries either from the impact or hitting their head on the ground.

A few? Of recent? Ok .. give me.. say 5 in the last 10 years

http://online.wsj.com/articles/woman-hi ... 1411437146" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[CalvinAndHobbes]

Out for a ride yesterday morning, and mostly it was fine, but I did have 2 complete idiots. Would love to see the police do something if I reported it (especially the first one), but as there was no actual contact, doubt they will do anything.

Approaching the lights in Newport, Sydney, take the middle of the lane - 2 lane road and low traffic, so easy for cars to use the lane next to me. However, MM decides this will slow them down way too much:



That was pretty close!

A few minutes later, car passes me in the right hand lane, so they should know I was there, but changed lanes without indicating properly, and definitely without looking:



Is there any point in reporting either of these?

[herzog]

The only thing you can be sure if is that nothing will happen if you don't report them.

The first one in particular, was absolutely disgusting.

[Lukeyboy]

In most cases where the ped isn't clipped they take the brunt of the impact. There's been a few deaths of recent where the cyclist has been uninjured while the ped has been stuck and killed - IIRC all have been from head injuries either from the impact or hitting their head on the ground.

A few? Of recent? Ok .. give me.. say 5 in the last 10 years

Ped died in the Brisbane CBD a few years back outside the casino after running out from behind a parked car into the path of a cyclist hitting his head on the ground as he was trying to cross the road ahead of the approaching traffic. Was followed by a similar incident on Adelaide Street? where a female ped did something similar and was taken to hosipital with serious head injuries (not fatal). A ped in perth died after head injuries received after being hit by a cyclist back in June. Just recently in quick succession 2 people died in new york from head injuries after hitting their head on the ground in a collision with a cyclist.

Edit: Link to the New York incidents - http://nypost.com/2014/09/18/cyclist-sl ... tral-park/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[HiChris]

Out for a ride yesterday morning, and mostly it was fine, but I did have 2 complete idiots. Would love to see the police do something if I reported it (especially the first one), but as there was no actual contact, doubt they will do anything.

Approaching the lights in Newport, Sydney, take the middle of the lane - 2 lane road and low traffic, so easy for cars to use the lane next to me. However, MM decides this will slow them down way too much:



That was pretty close!

A few minutes later, car passes me in the right hand lane, so they should know I was there, but changed lanes without indicating properly, and definitely without looking:



Is there any point in reporting either of these?

Was that a bike rack on the back of the first MM? Should know better!

Did the second guy indicate before barging into your space?

[cowled]

Out for a ride yesterday morning, and mostly it was fine, but I did have 2 complete idiots. Would love to see the police do something if I reported it (especially the first one), but as there was no actual contact, doubt they will do anything.

Approaching the lights in Newport, Sydney, take the middle of the lane - 2 lane road and low traffic, so easy for cars to use the lane next to me. However, MM decides this will slow them down way too much:



That was pretty close!

A few minutes later, car passes me in the right hand lane, so they should know I was there, but changed lanes without indicating properly, and definitely without looking:



Is there any point in reporting either of these?

That moron in your first vid had a bike rack. It looked awfully close. I'd definitely be reporting it.

[cowled]

Out for a ride yesterday morning, and mostly it was fine, but I did have 2 complete idiots. Would love to see the police do something if I reported it (especially the first one), but as there was no actual contact, doubt they will do anything.

Approaching the lights in Newport, Sydney, take the middle of the lane - 2 lane road and low traffic, so easy for cars to use the lane next to me. However, MM decides this will slow them down way too much:



That was pretty close!

A few minutes later, car passes me in the right hand lane, so they should know I was there, but changed lanes without indicating properly, and definitely without looking:



Is there any point in reporting either of these?

That moron in your first vid had a bike rack. It looked awfully close. I'd definitely be reporting it.

[Percrime]

A few? Of recent? Ok .. give me.. say 5 in the last 10 years

Ped died in the Brisbane CBD a few years back outside the casino after running out from behind a parked car into the path of a cyclist hitting his head on the ground as he was trying to cross the road ahead of the approaching traffic. Was followed by a similar incident on Adelaide Street? where a female ped did something similar and was taken to hosipital with serious head injuries (not fatal). A ped in perth died after head injuries received after being hit by a cyclist back in June. Just recently in quick succession 2 people died in new york from head injuries after hitting their head on the ground in a collision with a cyclist.

Edit: Link to the New York incidents - http://nypost.com/2014/09/18/cyclist-sl ... tral-park/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Well thats 3. One of who was 75. All I would suggest (took your word on the Brissie one) were probably considerably older and less fit that the cyclist who hit them (And one who was clearly clobbered by a self inportant pratt on a TT bike) I,ll bet I could find 3 incidents worldwide where the cyclists came off that badly pretty easily. Its only "A few" in a ACA kinda way. I,m not having a go understand.. I understand that in these things sometimes the ped just gets unlucky, and often they only got clobbered cos they were old and fragile. I am just stating that in apologizing for these incidents we need to point out that unlike a ped getting skittled by a BMW the rider always cops it ... and on average suffers the same two hits the ped does... smacks into someone .. and then the ground.

[Ross]

Vic police sergeant on drink drive charge

http://www.news.com.au/national/breakin ... ve-charge/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AN off-duty Victoria police sergeant was allegedly caught drink driving after crashing his car in Ballarat.

THE sergeant from the Western police region was taken to the Ballarat police station following the single-car crash in which he registered a blood alcohol level of .159.
The crash occurred in the early hours of Sunday.

His licence was suspended and he will be charged with drink driving.

[Lukeyboy]

A few? Of recent? Ok .. give me.. say 5 in the last 10 years

Ped died in the Brisbane CBD a few years back outside the casino after running out from behind a parked car into the path of a cyclist hitting his head on the ground as he was trying to cross the road ahead of the approaching traffic. Was followed by a similar incident on Adelaide Street? where a female ped did something similar and was taken to hosipital with serious head injuries (not fatal). A ped in perth died after head injuries received after being hit by a cyclist back in June. Just recently in quick succession 2 people died in new york from head injuries after hitting their head on the ground in a collision with a cyclist.

Edit: Link to the New York incidents - http://nypost.com/2014/09/18/cyclist-sl ... tral-park/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Well thats 3. One of who was 75. All I would suggest (took your word on the Brissie one) were probably considerably older and less fit that the cyclist who hit them (And one who was clearly clobbered by a self inportant pratt on a TT bike) I,ll bet I could find 3 incidents worldwide where the cyclists came off that badly pretty easily. Its only "A few" in a ACA kinda way. I,m not having a go understand.. I understand that in these things sometimes the ped just gets unlucky, and often they only got clobbered cos they were old and fragile. I am just stating that in apologizing for these incidents we need to point out that unlike a ped getting skittled by a BMW the rider always cops it ... and on average suffers the same two hits the ped does... smacks into someone .. and then the ground.

Can't find the story about the woman that was struck on Adelaide Street but I think she was in her early/mid 20's. The rider clipped her and she stumbled over hitting her head. Both were taken to hospital. Perth fatal - http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-06/e ... th/5575242" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; And it turns out George Street one was was more than a couple years ago.

Serious accident involving pedestrian and cyclist, City

Two men were rushed to the RBH following a serious accident
between a cyclist and a pedestrian in the city this afternoon.

Shortly before 3pm the cyclist was riding down George Street,
towards the intersection of Elizabeth Street, when he collided
with a man crossing the road near the Casino.

It is believed both men are in their late 20s or early 30s.

The pedestrian sustained serious head injuries and is in a
critical condition. The condition of the cyclist has yet to be
confirmed but it is not believed he sustained serious injuries.

Accident Investigation Squad officers are at the scene of the
collision. Traffic disruptions are minimal.

Update - Serious traffic incident, City: A Jindalee man died
overnight as a result of injuries sustained in a serious traffic
incident involving a cyclist and pedestrian. The incident took
place in the City around 3pm Monday at the intersection of George
and Elizabeth Streets. The 37-year-old pedestrian passed away in
the Royal Brisbane Hospital.

Anyone who witnessed the incident that could assist police with
their investigations should contact Crime Stoppers on 1800 333
000.

Yeah I know what your getting at. I'm not saying that all the injuries are going to be horrific in an ACA type of way but it doesn't take much for someone to be seriously injured from a head impact considering they make up one of the majority reasons for hospitalisation. It's always going to be a luck of the draw as to how bad it would be. Just a bump on the noggin to brain dead. Similar to the one punch can kill or someone tripping down the stairs. Do you slide on your ass to the very bottom or do you damage your spine

I read a report a long, long time ago that had some interesting stats. I can't recall the definitions of what they classed as a head injury/leg injury/torso injury but it was even and I think it was something like 40% of pedestrians taken to hospital over x amount of time had been from a head/neck related injury with thigh/lower leg being the other popular admission at the same percentage with the rest being made up of arm and torso related injuries. Of those incidents they broke the head injuries down into something like ~60% were from an unexpected impact. I'll see if I can did that report up. Pretty sure it was some American study as i remember there being a section about speed and it was in mph. It had some detailed parts but others were also very vague. I found this one before which has NSW related stats. http://acrs.org.au/wp-content/uploads/G ... -Risk..pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[queequeg]

Generally speaking s cyclist who hits a ped has to deal with that collision and the collision with the ground at most of the same velocity that follows. Generally speaking given equal health the cyclist is likely to be hurt worst. Just saying.

Not entirely. In most cases where the ped isn't clipped they take the brunt of the impact. There's been a few deaths of recent where the cyclist has been uninjured while the ped has been stuck and killed - IIRC all have been from head injuries either from the impact or hitting their head on the ground.

That is what the bell is for. Use it! Or shout out.

If peds are texting, listening to an ipod at 110db, well you can make own judgement.

At the Marathon last weekend I had a whistle and was shouting out to iPed runners, and even standing right next to them was useless. I had to physically ride up to them and tap them on the shoulder! Gave a few of them a huge fright, but they were on another planet!

[Scott_C]

In most cases where the ped isn't clipped they take the brunt of the impact. There's been a few deaths of recent where the cyclist has been uninjured while the ped has been stuck and killed - IIRC all have been from head injuries either from the impact or hitting their head on the ground.

A few? Of recent? Ok .. give me.. say 5 in the last 10 years

The ABS "Causes of Death" statistics list 12 pedestrian fatalities due to being struck by cyclists for the decade to 2012, roughly 0.5% of pedestrians killed in transport accidents. The stats show 0 cyclist fatalities due to collisions with pedestrians (or other animals).

By comparison, 15 people died after falling over due to an accidental collision or push with another person and a further 14 died due to an accidental collision with another person (e.g. clash of heads). The canonical 'rare event', being struck by lightning, caused 10 fatalities.

Basically, cyclists do occasionally fatally injure pedestrians, but it is about as rare as someone being killed by being struck by lightning. It is even more rare for a cyclist to die due to a collision with a pedestrian. On average two people colliding on foot causes twice as many accidental deaths a year as cyclists colliding with pedestrians. On average, for every pedestrian killed in a collision with a cyclist 145 die in a collision with a light vehicle.

[Lukeyboy]

For the record I'm not just referring to fatalties. Moreso the fact peds can still be quite badly injured if they take the brunt of the impact.

[Chris249]

Generally speaking s cyclist who hits a ped has to deal with that collision and the collision with the ground at most of the same velocity that follows. Generally speaking given equal health the cyclist is likely to be hurt worst. Just saying.

Not entirely. In most cases where the ped isn't clipped they take the brunt of the impact. There's been a few deaths of recent where the cyclist has been uninjured while the ped has been stuck and killed - IIRC all have been from head injuries either from the impact or hitting their head on the ground.

That is what the bell is for. Use it! Or shout out.

If peds are texting, listening to an ipod at 110db, well you can make own judgement.

Reasonable judgement is that a ped walking in a straight line in a steady pace should not get punishment passed by prats on bikes even when the ped is exercising their right to text or listen to an Ipod, but it happens way too often even when the ped is fully alert. Lots of cyclists complain that drivers don't give them enough space to swerve to avoid potholes or car doors so why do so many cyclists not give peds room to move?

To be honest I probably received more punishment passes from cyclists when I had to walk the last little fraction of the trip to work after getting off the light rail, than I got from drivers when I rode all the way to work. Sure, fatalities caused by ped/cyclist collisions are rare, but the point is that cyclists can be damn bad at handing out punishment passes just like drivers can.

[biker jk]

Reasonable judgement is that a ped walking in a straight line in a steady pace should not get punishment passed by prats on bikes even when the ped is exercising their right to text or listen to an Ipod, but it happens way too often even when the ped is fully alert. Lots of cyclists complain that drivers don't give them enough space to swerve to avoid potholes or car doors so why do so many cyclists not give peds room to move?

To be honest I probably received more punishment passes from cyclists when I had to walk the last little fraction of the trip to work after getting off the light rail, than I got from drivers when I rode all the way to work. Sure, fatalities caused by ped/cyclist collisions are rare, but the point is that cyclists can be damn bad at handing out punishment passes just like drivers can.

The plural of anecdote is not data. Keep banging that drum.

[Mulger bill]

Reasonable judgement is that a ped walking in a straight line in a steady pace should not get punishment passed by prats on bikes even when the ped is exercising their right to text or listen to an Ipod...

This critter is right up there with Unicorns and Dragons in the "Easy to find" stakes.

[yugyug]

The ABS "Causes of Death" statistics list 12 pedestrian fatalities due to being struck by cyclists for the decade to 2012, roughly 0.5% of pedestrians killed in transport accidents. The stats show 0 cyclist fatalities due to collisions with pedestrians (or other animals).

By comparison, 15 people died after falling over due to an accidental collision or push with another person and a further 14 died due to an accidental collision with another person (e.g. clash of heads). The canonical 'rare event', being struck by lightning, caused 10 fatalities.

Basically, cyclists do occasionally fatally injure pedestrians, but it is about as rare as someone being killed by being struck by lightning. It is even more rare for a cyclist to die due to a collision with a pedestrian. On average two people colliding on foot causes twice as many accidental deaths a year as cyclists colliding with pedestrians. On average, for every pedestrian killed in a collision with a cyclist 145 die in a collision with a light vehicle.

Thanks for the data. Thus corresponds with my memory and it's why I called the comparison a bit spurious in the first place.

I really do accept though that despite the rarity of serious cyclist-ped collisions, cyclist still need to take the utmost care around a peds. Not just because it's courteous, thought it is, but because the ped perception of the danger is way out of proportion to actuality. Peds, for a number of reasons, really think their life is at risk when they get buzzed by a cyclist and this works against cyclists from the uptake and advocacy point of view. We really should show them we are better than the morons this thread concerns.

[Chris249]

Reasonable judgement is that a ped walking in a straight line in a steady pace should not get punishment passed by prats on bikes even when the ped is exercising their right to text or listen to an Ipod, but it happens way too often even when the ped is fully alert. Lots of cyclists complain that drivers don't give them enough space to swerve to avoid potholes or car doors so why do so many cyclists not give peds room to move?

To be honest I probably received more punishment passes from cyclists when I had to walk the last little fraction of the trip to work after getting off the light rail, than I got from drivers when I rode all the way to work. Sure, fatalities caused by ped/cyclist collisions are rare, but the point is that cyclists can be damn bad at handing out punishment passes just like drivers can.

The plural of anecdote is not data. Keep banging that drum.

And exactly what hard data do you have about the passing distance between peds and cyclists on the bridge across Darling Harbour, may I ask?

Funny thing is that in your recent post in this thread, you said that you "imagined" the reasons behind the policy about testing older drivers. It's sort of funny that you base part of your posts on what you "imagine" and then you criticise others for not providing hard data on passing distances.

[Chris249]

I really do accept though that despite the rarity of serious cyclist-ped collisions, cyclist still need to take the utmost care around a peds. Not just because it's courteous, thought it is, but because the ped perception of the danger is way out of proportion to actuality. Peds, for a number of reasons, really think their life is at risk when they get buzzed by a cyclist and this works against cyclists from the uptake and advocacy point of view. We really should show them we are better than the morons this thread concerns.

That was what motivated my post - when we make peds feel scared we don't exactly motivate them to do their best to keep us feel warm and comfortable when they get behind the wheel or in the polling booth. Several people I worked with remarked that they really disliked the close passes by cyclists on that section.

Yes, the chance of causing serious injury is obviously higher when a car hits a bike than it is when a bike hits a ped, but the point was about the perception - both the bad perception that getting buzzed by bikes creates in pedestrians, and in the perception by many cyclists that they can buzz peds without giving a hoot about the alarm they may cause, and that all or most peds are irresponsible.

I went away from BNA, and in particular this general comments area, because of the "they are all against us" attitude displayed by many posters here, who manage to abuse both drivers and pedestrians. Some other comments here indicate that attitude is still strong.

[Chris249]

Reasonable judgement is that a ped walking in a straight line in a steady pace should not get punishment passed by prats on bikes even when the ped is exercising their right to text or listen to an Ipod...

This critter is right up there with Unicorns and Dragons in the "Easy to find" stakes.

Not where I've cycled, which is a lot of places in Sydney and Canberra. Here's a link to some vid of the bridge in question;

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/cyclists-igno ... zs7jn.html

Look at how straight the majority of peds walk; it's easy to measure it against the straight lines on the road surface. Look also at the couple of passes by cyclists doing high teens and about a bar's width from pedestrians.

Pedestrians have the right to walk around in a fairly normal manner and cyclists should allow for that. That vid shows that most peds ARE walking straight and at an even pace. Even if some weave a bit, so what - if we demand that drivers give us enough space so that we can dodge potholes or doors AND have the extra margin to allow us to feel safe, surely we must give pedestrians enough space to dodge other pedestrians or weave AND have the extra margin to feel safe.

Note that the Herald report says that four injuries were recieved as a result of collisions on the bridge in the past year - these are not normally major injuries and they are rare, but they do happen.

The report also mentions Harold Scruby, which brings me to mention that I have rung him up to challenge his views about cyclists when I was trying to get information about his claims that couriers were regularly injuring peds. Harold refused to back up his "facts" and I passed that information onto the head of Sydney traffic police. I mention this to show that I'm certainly NOT pro-ped or against cyclist rights. But if we are going to complain about punishment passes by cars we should also complain about punishment passes by bikes.

[yugyug]

But if we are going to complain about punishment passes by cars we should also complain about punishment passes by bikes.

No we shouldn't! We agree that the cyclist-ped collisions are rare, and that the problem is just one of perception. That, IMHO, is not something to spend a lot of time on nor turn into a big deal. Cyclists need to more courteous and cluey around peds, I get it, but that will happen overtime as cycling numbers increase and infrastructure improves. But there is a huge difference between this and moron motorists who put actual lives and livelihoods at risk and the failure of the system to stop them.

[citywomble]

Percrime said:

Give me five in the last ten years

Well in WA there have been at least three in five years:
Indian tourist killed by cyclist on shared path - fatal head injury
Female crossing road at roundabout hit by cyclist taking the line and entering roundabout after elderly couple started crossing exit - fatal head injury
As stated already, most recently an elderly pedestrian killed by cyclist on shared path -fatal head injury.

3in 5years seems to be more that 5in 10. This is just WA with only 10%of the population so what is it for Australia?

Not the right thread but it does seem it's the pedestrian not the cyclist that should be wearing the helmet

About punishment passes by cyclists on peds. Yugyug said:

No we shouldn't! We agree that the cyclist-ped collisions are rare, and that the problem is just one of perception

First I do not agree that "cyclist-ped collisions are rare" instead believe that cyclist-ped collisions are rarely reported
That is a big difference and in part because the mandatory reporting of accidents does not extend to paths.
Also we should be as concerned about punishment passes on pedestrians and not just because they drive cars too. Punishment or simple MIDGAF passes by cyclists occur all the time as does GOOMFW (Get Out Of My F Way) which is no different too when cars sit on their horns.

Actually, wait a minute, GOOMFW is worse because cars and bikes are equal on the roads but pedestrians actually do have right of way over cyclists on shared paths. Cyclists have to give way to peds and in WA that extends to pedestrians on or crossing the path.