Moron Motorists #3

[mikesbytes]

It is with sadness that I report that 2 motorists have been killed early this morning about 1.5k from where I live.

I left home in my car at 5.40am only to be immediately to be in virtual gridlock more akin to 8am. The reason eventually became evident, I could see ahead that the highway was closed and when I eventually got there, there was a car with a cloth over it sitting behind a line of Police cars and a fire engine.

My Neighbour has told me that the Police were pursuing someone driving a stolen ute that is equipped with a bull bar and it hit the car, which had 2 occupants. One died at the scene and the other died in the Ambo. The driver of the stolen ute suffered a broken leg and is in hospital.

Personally I see this as manslaughter. My wife told me that in China the driver of the ute would be executed.

And my view on bull bars is that a vehicle fitted with them needs to meet the same safety that it would if it wasn't fitted. I ask the question as to how many lives have been lost due to bull bars that wouldn't of been lost if the bull bar wasn't fitted

[silentC]

According to the ABC, the pursuit had been terminated prior to the collision.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-25/t ... an/8556844

[bychosis]

I wonder how much the bull bar made a difference. Heavier, higher vehicle (ute) driven at (assuming) high speed front on hits a sedan (or hatch) in the passenger cell is a recipe for death even without the bar.

But yes, it should be manslaughter.

[gtext]

http://amp.smh.com.au/victoria/more-tha ... w8t3g.html

110,000 Victorian motorists fined for mobile phone use in 3 years

The mobile phone while useful in everyday life would have to be one of the most dangerous devices around today if not used responsibly. Not only while driving but as a pedestrian not watching where their walking. Listening to music while walking amongst people and traffic unable to hear sounds around them including bicycle bells has to be the cause of some accidents.

[TheWall]

^^
The "professional" truck driver probably is a member of that cyclist hating Facebook group. Perhaps a report to the media if the police do nothing (although no camera footage is a bummer)? I don't let the bogans know I have a camera as it makes no difference to their behaviour. Perhaps learn self-defense in case the bogans get violent outside their vehicle.

Still no call from the Police...

Strava buddies shared my Strava comments and we worked out the truck frequents a nearby nursing home construction site. So i called them.
The site manager already knew of the incident (I think two other site workers saw the verbal interaction and must have reported it) and I confirmed I had lodged a Police Report - this was not a surprise to him. The Work/Health & Safety approach interested him greatly...he was very keen to avoid written report! So I will oblige him with a detailed one requiring a equally detailed response !

Re the self defence. I am not a small chap at 6'4 and 90odd kilos...but I did win my last fight by a good 50metres or so . I was actually pretty close to the pre-emptive strike for a while...his extra bulk was not something that would have been easily dealt with cleats on!

[Kev365428]

When fighting in cleats, steer the fight onto a grassed area. That way you will have superior footing when the cleats sink into the earth.


At least that's what I hope will happen if I'm ever in that situation. The logic seems sound though.

Kev.

[stevenaaus]

According to the ABC, the pursuit had been terminated prior to the collision.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-25/t ... an/8556844

I heard this one on the radio and had a laugh.

police say [chase] was aborted 10 minutes before the crash.

Raymond Lomas... attempted to flee but was arrested by a police dog squad unit that had been stopped at the intersection, one of two nearby police cars

http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act ... 016bbfbe1a

[biker jk]

According to the ABC, the pursuit had been terminated prior to the collision.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-25/t ... an/8556844

I heard this one on the radio and had a laugh.

police say [chase] was aborted 10 minutes before the crash.

Raymond Lomas... attempted to flee but was arrested by a police dog squad unit that had been stopped at the intersection, one of two nearby police cars

http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act ... 016bbfbe1a

No one is to blame but Lomas for stealing the car and speeding through a red light. Even if the police were chasing him it was all his fault. We don't want the stupid Queensland no pursuit policy in NSW thanks.

[Mububban]

Signalling to turn right at a roundabout very close to home yesterday, I had a little old lady squeeze her Commodore past me and continue on straight ahead. My spidey senses must have been tingling, because I heard a car behind me and had a feeling they weren't going to wait for me, so I slowed down and stayed left and through she went. Idiot.

Normally I move from the bike lane to the very centre of the car lane and keep my signalling arm out as long as possible, yesterday I was only about 1/3 the way across the lane so she figured she had plenty of room.

[NASHIE]

According to the ABC, the pursuit had been terminated prior to the collision.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-25/t ... an/8556844

I heard this one on the radio and had a laugh.

police say [chase] was aborted 10 minutes before the crash.

Raymond Lomas... attempted to flee but was arrested by a police dog squad unit that had been stopped at the intersection, one of two nearby police cars

http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act ... 016bbfbe1a

No one is to blame but Lomas for stealing the car and speeding through a red light. Even if the police were chasing him it was all his fault. We don't want the stupid Queensland no pursuit policy in NSW thanks.

Yep 100% right, no good blaming bullbars, road conditions etc etc, just the same as the Lindt cafe siege inquest there is one and only one person to place blame. Police need more powers (bullbars) to take these people out before they cause these tragic traffic accidents .....bit of Clint Eastwood bang bang

[jasonc]

[fenn_paddler]

Language warning...

This roundabout SMIDSY occurred on Flood St. Leichhardt



Not sure why the driver didn't see me - I had the front light on, took centre of the lane, high-viz jersey... Though she did seem preoccupied with the roll she was munching down on.

[malnar]

Probably didn't look right, if that's the case of course she won't see you....

I had one very similar to that the other day at 8:30am. I saw he had his eyes straight ahead - tunnel vision. Only when I yelled out 'hey!' did he look to the right. The look on his face was one of panic and apology. Had he been competent he still had time to break, but because of his panic & shock all he could do was cruise through. He had a toddler in the back. I'm guessing in a hurry for child care drop off.

[InTheWoods]

Probably didn't look right, if that's the case of course she won't see you....

I had one very similar to that the other day at 8:30am. I saw he had his eyes straight ahead - tunnel vision. Only when I yelled out 'hey!' did he look to the right. The look on his face was one of panic and apology. Had he been competent he still had time to break, but because of his panic & shock all he could do was cruise through. He had a toddler in the back. I'm guessing in a hurry for child care drop off.

Sometimes you can be obscured behind the A pillar - if the timing is right you can basically hide behind it the whole way, including your lights, and if the driver hasn't been taught to lean forward to check the obscured vision behind the pillar they will keep coming... Good idea to watch how close the pillar is to blocking their line of sight to you.

[mikesbytes]

I wonder how much the bull bar made a difference. Heavier, higher vehicle (ute) driven at (assuming) high speed front on hits a sedan (or hatch) in the passenger cell is a recipe for death even without the bar.

But yes, it should be manslaughter.

It was the driver of the stolen car that killed 2 people. The question is if the vehicle wasn't fitted with a bull bar, would the drivers actions have still killed 2 people? It's a question that only an expert could answer.

Modern cars have crumple zones and the bull bar was mounted in front of the crumple zone, attached to the chassis. My question is, does the car have the same safety level with a bull bar that it did prior to the fitting?

[find_bruce]

Do 4wds have crumple zones? I thought the Australian Design Rules were a lot easier for "agricultural" vehicles.

Also there is a massive difference between safety of (1) the vehicles occupants and (2) the people who get run into.

[mikesbytes]

Good question

What crumpling does occur would presumably also help the occupants of the other motor vehicle

[Mububban]

Sometimes you can be obscured behind the A pillar - if the timing is right you can basically hide behind it the whole way, including your lights, and if the driver hasn't been taught to lean forward to check the obscured vision behind the pillar they will keep coming... Good idea to watch how close the pillar is to blocking their line of sight to you.

This is a common problem with modern car design. Great for cabin/roof strength and rollover protection, terrible for visibility. I watch lots of car reviews on Youtube and it's a regular comment for all cars - "pedestrians, cyclists and other vehicles can easily be obscured by this chunky A-pillar...."

[trailgumby]

He had a toddler in the back. I'm guessing in a hurry for child care drop off.

Most dangerous time and place to be cycling, after school drop-off run time a little later in the morning.

[trailgumby]

This is a common problem with modern car design. Great for cabin/roof strength and rollover protection, terrible for visibility. I watch lots of car reviews on Youtube and it's a regular comment for all cars - "pedestrians, cyclists and other vehicles can easily be obscured by this chunky A-pillar...."

Doesn't have to be. My recently acquired Subie Levorg is excellent for this. 5-star ANCAP safety rating too.

Modern cars have crumple zones and the bull bar was mounted in front of the crumple zone, attached to the chassis. My question is, does the car have the same safety level with a bull bar that it did prior to the fitting?

I think bull bars have no place in the urban environment. They should be banned for all cars resident in urban areas. The only people who should be allowed to use them are farmers, those living or working on the land, or stock and station agents.

And yes, it should be manslaughter. Although I think we have a thing called Skye's Law that should apply in these circumstances?

[NASHIE]

I think bull bars have no place in the urban environment. They should be banned for all cars resident in urban areas. The only people who should be allowed to use them are farmers, those living or working on the land, or stock and station agents.

I do agree although there are a few others that do require bars mainly for winch mounting (work related) but it is getting harder for modern 4WD to fit bars due to crumple zones, air bag compatibility, so i think you will see them slowly reduce in number over the years.

[bychosis]

I think bull bars have no place in the urban environment. They should be banned for all cars resident in urban areas. The only people who should be allowed to use them are farmers, those living or working on the land, or stock and station agents.

I do agree although there are a few others that do require bars mainly for winch mounting (work related) but it is getting harder for modern 4WD to fit bars due to crumple zones, air bag compatibility, so i think you will see them slowly reduce in number over the years.

We have recently had a work ute fitted with a winch and bull bar to mount it. It was installed due to a WHS issue funnily enough. We can no longer tow other vehicles out of being bogged, a winch was determined to be the next best solution becuase it provides a slow, controlled method of in-bogging. Pretty sure no consideration was given to the bull bar in that risk assessment. Suburban, high traffic environment, not many Roos out on the roads.

[outnabike]

The Vic government has opted for education rather than a one metre rule....
Then we get news like this. Yep education is a useful tool alright, but it seems the need to make a call is more important than yapping and probably not seeing a cyclist. These drivers are probably the ones that "don't see you."

http://www.news.com.au/national/breakin ... 82ef8b996a
Texting drivers caught every five minutes
May 26, 20172:37pm
Luke Costin Australian Associated Press
On average, police caught one driver using a mobile phone every five minutes during an eight hour operation in Melbourne.
THE OPERATION
One hundred and four drivers using a phone while navigating the congested Camberwell Junction were caught by plain-clothed police on Wednesday.
That's an average of one every four minutes and 37 seconds.
THE LAW
L- and P-platers can't use a phone at all while driving.
Fully licenced drivers can't touch the phone and have only a few options for hands-free:
* In a commercially designed holder fixed to the vehicle, the driver can use the phone for calls, music or GPS
* if the phone never comes into contact with them, drivers may listen to music or make calls.
THE PENALTY
Being caught handling a phone while driving costs $466 and four demerit points.
THE POLICE
Camberwell Sergeant Paul Cabai says having six officers stationed at the traffic lights meant they could more easily intercept people than when in patrol cars.
And he's promising more such operations in coming weeks.
"It doesn't surprise me (the number of people caught) because of the amount of anecdotal evidence we get from drivers, especially truck drivers who can see down into other cars," he told AAP.

[BJL]

I'd just like to point out that it' not only 4wd vehicles that have bullbars fitted and in my experience, the most dangerous bullbars, by far, are fitted to Ford and Holden utes. Probably to compensate for their owner's really tiny other 'thing'.

[BJL]

Almost forgot. Moron motorist of the day for me. In The Dandenongs, a friend was riding about 50 metres ahead of me followed by two cars. The second car couldn't wait so overtook the first car and my friend on the wrong side of the road, whilst there was a car approaching in the opposite direction

(I really need a Go Pro or something )