Moron Motorists #3

[human909]

Where I am, we have these signs on buses:

I see many cars continue to pass buses with the indicator on in my area. I'm usually the first to let the bus out whether I'm on the bike or in the car.

None of this is helped by busses using their hazard lights while parked. If I am passing a bus where I can't see its left indicator due to an obstruction then I have no idea whether it is a parked bus or a bus that is wishing to exit. It is absurd.

I find myself regularly passing busses with their right indicator on, because as it turn out their left indicator is also on.

[Boognoss]

Where I am, we have these signs on buses:

I see many cars continue to pass buses with the indicator on in my area. I'm usually the first to let the bus out whether I'm on the bike or in the car.

None of this is helped by busses using their hazard lights while parked. If I am passing a bus where I can't see its left indicator due to an obstruction then I have no idea whether it is a parked bus or a bus that is wishing to exit. It is absurd.

I find myself regularly passing busses with their right indicator on, because as it turn out their left indicator is also on.

Good point, in my experience (outer suburbia) that's rarely an issue. Just impatient motorists blasting past and obviously indicating to merge bus.

[human909]

Good point, in my experience (outer suburbia) that's rarely an issue. Just impatient motorists blasting past and obviously indicating to merge bus.

Yes. It is probably more of an inner suburb thing where bus stops are squeezed between parked cars. Unless you see the front wheels turning then you have no idea if the bus wants to pull out or not. So I will often end up passing with caution.

Also just up the road from me is a bus stop where the busses wait for 5-10minutes... So I am always riding pass a bus with its hazards on, still makes me nervous doing so because while I'm passing all I'm seeing is a left indicator.

[il padrone]

Well, I don't see this happening out my way. Buses pulled in at a stop should obviously not use hazard lights, for this very reason of confusion. They are NOT a road hazard, just a vehicle stopped at the roadside.

School buses doing school runs do have special hazard lights to warn of school children possibly trying to cross - but these are very specific lights, usually high-mounted, and labelled with 'children crossing' signs.

[Scott_C]

Where I am, we have these signs on buses:


It's the law!!

While this is true it is also the law (in WA at least) that the bus must indicate for 5 seconds before pulling out so in many cases there is time for a vehicle near to the back of the bus to go past before the bus can legally pull into traffic (a car doing 50kph will travel just short of 70m in 5 seconds). A couple of times I have seen busses in combined bus/cycling lanes ignore the requirement to signal so they can try and push out in front of cyclists who are about to pass the stopped bus.

[il padrone]

I commute along a bus route, part of which has a combined bus/bike lane. There are no bus bays - these were removed due to buses having real traffic entry problems - so they are not merging, rather, driving on. If a bus indicates that it is moving out, and I am already alongside overtaking, I will usually keep right on going and move on in front (with a wave) then keep left. However if I am any more than about 20m from the back of the bus, I will pull up and let the driver move on. To pass I would have to move out into the next lane anyway to get by, then be stuck out there as the bus continued on. Once or twice I have been caught out wide as the driver had begun to move - I stayed one lane out and waved the bus to go past on my left.

A case of fine judgement needed, but everyone needs to consider the equity of you holding up, potentially, 40-50 other commuters just out of impatience.




I always give considerate bus-drivers a wave, and am considerate of their needs as well. Generally I find them to treat me very fairly on the roads, in great contrast to some car drivers.

[herzog]

None of this is helped by busses using their hazard lights while parked. If I am passing a bus where I can't see its left indicator due to an obstruction then I have no idea whether it is a parked bus or a bus that is wishing to exit. It is absurd.
:

Yes this. I ride up Bathurst st in the Sydney CBD in the afternoons. Most days there's a line of buses in the kerbside lane, all with their hazards on. You can only see the right hand signal, because the left blinker is obscured by the following bus.

Motorists have no idea, some stop and "wait" for the bus. Agree it's confusing.

[BianchiCam]

Well I went to the cop shop last night and handed everything in again with another statement regarding my conversation with the Sen Const. Seems the desk jockeys suggested it goes to the Sen Sgt not Super as I have been informed. Apparently the Sen Sgt looks after all uniformed officers at the station. Believe it is a female which may be more useful considering I have kids et all.
Just waiting for a response. I even put my latest vid (considerate v inconsiderate) on the disc along with measurements from the scene.

Now we wait.

Cam

Update.
10-2-16
Off to the cop shop after work today at 5pm as I was on the Moto.
Wanted to find out the name of the Sen Sgt whom the Constable told me would be better to go to than the Superintendent.

Sooooo, I rocks up and after waiting a while for someone to appear, ask the the Sen Constable, "I am trying to find out which Sen Sgt was on duty last Friday Night to see if they received some paperwork"
Big mistake!
Why, how and when followed for a good 10 mins. What happened blah blah blah.
He went off to try and find out. Meanwhile, trying to verbalise all that had happened was getting a tad tiring.

"no nothing back here showing any paperwork", Great here we bloody go I think.
"what date were you hit again"? Goodness, I wasn't hit. It was a very near miss. "No legislation ad nauseam.
A fair bit of tooing and froing ensures.
Says he will get the Sgt. A nice enough lady.
Go through everything again. With her telling me there is nothing they can do, what do I want out of this, blah blah blah.

Utter BS.
Says she will contact the Const that I gave the 2nd lot of disc and cover letter to.

Get home and there is a message telling me that a Sgt (Female) is my contact. Apparently she has the info. At least it wasnt thrown in the bin as I suspected.
When I gave the info to the Snr Const to take further. He said he would pass it onto the Sen Sgt, not Sgt. Said 'she' would look at it.

Really feel that I am coming across as a whinger as far as I call tell from their responses.

Asked the nice lady today, "what is the difference between 'reckless and dangerous' driving,' "oh maybe fiddling with the radio, or maybe spilling coffee and swearving a bit" I say, "oh so nothing like shaving a bike rider then" No it seems.
Me, "so I can be fined for riding too close to a car"
Her, "yes"
Me, "But a car can pass as close as they like"?
"you dont ride , do you," I asked?
She makes a face, "oh no"

Pretty much sums up the situation.

Funny thing is, whilst waiting for service at the cop shop I happened upon a nice little booklet for bike riders from the Law Foundation, Called Bike Law. A Bike riders guide to road rules in Vic.
How very thoughtful. Lots of regulations and rules for the rider, but buggerall in the way of others being responsible when passing.

Give my details again but didn't have the disc with letters so pretty pointless. You cannot put in a nutshell the events.
bikelaw.org.au

Details of 'careless driving'

Careless driving

Being charged with an offence of careless driving means the police allege that you did not drive with the care and attention that a reasonable driver would.

Often the police charge people with careless driving because the police say the person has caused an accident. However, there does not have to be an accident for this charge to apply.

[human909]

Well, I don't see this happening out my way. Buses pulled in at a stop should obviously not use hazard lights, for this very reason of confusion. They are NOT a road hazard, just a vehicle stopped at the roadside.

From what I have seen inner Melbourne it seems to be SOP procedure to use hazard lights when a bus stops at a bus stop that is not off the road. If you are talking about the bus stops that off the road then that is a different circumstance. Or maybe different bus companies just have different policies....

A case of fine judgement needed, but everyone needs to consider the equity of you holding up, potentially, 40-50 other commuters just out of impatience.

Wise words.

Generally I find them to treat me very fairly on the roads, in great contrast to some car drivers.

Hmmm... I had a bus tail-gate me and then deliberately swerve towards me forcing me into the curb after I objected. The bus was empty. They must have nicer bus drivers out east. (Overall, I'm neither here nor there on bus drivers. Most haven't given me grief. But a couple THREATENING experience does leave a bad impression.)

[il padrone]

The buses I am talking about go on to the Eastern Freeway and on into the CBD down Lonsdale Street I think. They may use hazard lights in town,; they certainly do not out on Doncaster Rd.

These are Transdev Buses - used to be National. 9/10 always give room. I often watch them in the mirror drive slowly behind me as they are approaching a stop; or at times wait for me to pass before pulling off from a stop - no grief.

[RyanA]

With her telling me there is nothing they can do, what do I want out of this, blah blah blah.

There is something they can do, but they don't want to do it, because warning someone doesn't result in a conviction or $$ that they can add to the statistics of how well they did this month/year. They don't see it as "real police work". They would rather you got hit/killed, then they could recover your footage, arrest the driver and show the world how good at police work they are! And then the courts would give them a slap on the wrist and the driver would be a "poor thing" because they have to live with the trauma of hitting "one of those cockroaches that get in the way".

[human909]

Forget about warnings they can always issue somebody a summons for any breach of a road rule..... However ASAIK know not all road rules breaches can be issued with traffic infringement notices. Anything that doesn't have a traffic infringement notice needs a whole bunch more paperwork and court time. So yeah it is a case of they can't be bothered.

[jules21]

Really feel that I am coming across as a whinger as far as I call tell from their responses.

you can probably assume that's true. however, I am enjoying your account of the exchanges. what you're doing is probably useless in getting the driver fined - in this instance - but you are exposing the shenanigans that some police engage in to avoid taking complaints seriously. they've apparently lied to you, tried to bury your complaint, and then been caught out when you followed it up. it's happened to me. from everything I've read of others' accounts, it's happened to loads of people (cyclists). the more they understand people won't tolerate them placing legitimate complaints in the round file, the more likely they are to be professional in how they deal with them. well done.

[silentC]

Yesterday I was riding with a group. One of them is a highway patrol cop. There is a fairly notorious intersection where you are very likely to have someone pull out in front of you. It happened to him. He had his GoPro rolling and he has video of the driver not even glancing in his direction before pulling out in front of him, causing the cyclist to ride up his right-hand side. The cyclist followed the driver up the road to a roundabout, where he attempted to attract the driver's attention, but the driver was once again oblivious of the cyclist's presence and drove off.

Now there are three possible outcomes from this: nothing will happen, my friend will pursue the matter through the correct channels and have the driver booked for failing to give way, my friend will pull this person over next time he sees them when on duty and give them a defect notice (there is always something) and a lecture.

It would be nice to think that it would be the middle one, but all of us know that will go nowhere. Even a cop knows it's a waste of time. Fortunately for him, he has other ways of getting the point across.

[wellington_street]

Would love to know the outcome of that one SilentC.

[Red Rider]

Yesterday I was riding with a group. One of them is a highway patrol cop. There is a fairly notorious intersection where you are very likely to have someone pull out in front of you.

Since it sounds systemic to the intersection, maybe the intersection should be reported to Main Roads for them to consider improving the design? Sounds like the most effective course of action.

[silentC]

I think the problem with this intersection is that the sight-lines are too open, so motorists can scan the road as they approach and don't bother having another look before they actually make the turn. Because cyclists don't register as vehicles, they don't factor in the decision making.

Here is the street view of the intersection - this is what the driver sees on approach.

https://www.google.com.au/maps/(AT)-36.929 ... 56!6m1!1e1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He wants to turn left and we are travelling from right to left. There are two streets to the right, but one is one way, you can see the no entry sign. To the far right, you can see a car travelling in the direction we were heading. The street the driver is on is a slight upward gradient to join the cross street and drivers have a very good view of traffic on approach. The problem is that he just did not register my mate as traffic. He may have seen a bicycle but it may as well have been a tree. We are talking about an older person here, so he may have been confused by all the poles and trees in the foreground and background.

I have had two near misses here and one of our friends was knocked off her bike by someone driving straight through and up the hill (top of the view here). It's one of those spots where you need to expect them to try and kill you.

[BianchiCam]

Well, I got a message from the new Sgt that I saw last night. She has handball end it to another Sgt. This guy apparently 'rides' so will get in contact with him.

There are two possibilities here I believe.

One. An infringement for 'careless driving' where there was no accident. Oncoming cars, crossing solid lines. This one carries 3 points.

Or

A little known infringement for overtaking to closely or cutting in too soon. It is only 1 point which is fine.

As a bike is considered a 'vehicle' and should be treated as such, how could the police possibly wiggle out of it.

Also in point is the fact that I got a large amount of what seems 'personal opinion' from the Sen Const in the first place.
Get off the road, ride closer to the line, truckie was 'doing his best' makes my head explode.

[il padrone]

Also in point is the fact that I got a large amount of what seems 'personal opinion' from the Sen Const in the first place.
Get off the road, ride closer to the line, truckie was 'doing his best' makes my head explode.

Choose some suitable videos from here (Keri Caffrey) to use as evidence of how those opinions are falsehoods, and contrary to the legal road obligations of the overtaking vehicle. These may be US videos but the principles are still very relevant to Victorian roads.

https://vimeo.com/kericaffrey/videos" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Howzat]

Good one Bianchicam!

SilentC - the situation you show is where it's best to ride in the right wheel track. Slightly improved odds of being seen and/or registered as traffic. Assuming, of course, that the driver looks left at all.

[silentC]

Yes I am usually towards the centre of the lane at that spot. Not that it seems to make a difference.

I've seen the video and my mate was riding in the left wheel track. The driver is turning left into the same lane in front of him. As far back as you can make out on the video, you can only see the back of the driver's head, because he is looking to the left where he is driving to. Another cyclist who was in front of my friend passes directly in front of the car as he approaches the intersection. He has to have seen him. I put it down to senility.

[bychosis]

This morning on my way to work it was unfortunately tradie o'clock. I was using an access road linking a light industrial/retail area, rather than the through road to climb the hill. There is no shoulder on the through road so it makes sense. There are also speed humps on the access road meaning traffic is generally slower. Any how, as I was cycling along I heard the roar of a V8 behind me and looked around and there were a couple of tradie utes, the second of which was tearing up behind the first, and a third not far behind. The first was doing what I considered a reasonable speed. Once the passd me, and the next speed hump with the second ute cms from the first, there was another roar of V8 and the two following utes overtook the first and raced up around the corner. The access road at this point is virtually one way, especially at the start of the day, but these clowns were obviously racing each other to get to work first. I followed them up into the dead end between factory bays and sure enough they were all parked out the front of the same joint.

Slipping a DVD under the door is an option, but not sure about annoying tradies in an area I frequent when they didn't do me any harm. (plenty of passing space when the passed me)

[Sirrus]

Long time lurker/first time poster here. Firstly I must say that its great seeing people(try to) make these morons accountable for their actions towards other road users.

Now i'll weigh in with my 2cents. I have been driving on our roads for 10 years, I know not long but enough to assume I should be aware of my rights and responsibilities while driving, and riding casually for 2 months.
I will admit in my moron motorist case I was the moron motorist.

Driving through CBD of Geelong on a narrowish 4 lane road(2 each way) I'm driving in left lane behind a cyclist allowing him plenty of room as the next traffic lights are red. Once the light goes green cyclist who is stopped in gutter takes of late so I pass by no worries.
Sitting at next red light same rider pulls up seconds before lights go green he takes of very quickly, standing up on the pedals pushing hard, I take off slowly and catch up behind him as the intersections ends and the road narrows. He is sitting just left of left wheel track and I in my infinite wisdom think 'you fool get off the road' as I edge closer and drift far right into the lane as I squeeze by and keep on driving.

All was good(or so I thought) until I reached yet another red light. This time cyclist rides up on the right between the cars. Must be turning right I thought. Nope he was coming up to somewhat calmly berate me on my driving. f#*% of you idiot, Get of the F#*%ing road and you won't get hit ya w@nker was my reply.

This went on for the duration of the red light and continued for a short while once it went green. As I drove off and calmed down I though seriously what does he expect.

Now my point, through all my training and testing for my Learners and drivers license was I properly educated on laws around motorists and cyclists? Absolutly not and I strongly believe many of my motoring friends and family are completely unaware of the rules on sharing the road with cyclist. I'm not justifying these actions in anyway and looking back and knowing more about the rules I feel horrible about the situation I put this cyclist through.

Another point I would like to add in is although i drive 6 days a week for at least 90 minutes a day I rarely(1-2 times a month) encounter cyclists on the road. Given this limited exposure it doesn't really prepare you or create the need(unsure on that wording) for drivers the be in tune with how to share the road with cyclists. Not that this is in anyway an acceptable excuse, there is none!

[redsonic]

Now my point, through all my training and testing for my Learners and drivers license was I properly educated on laws around motorists and cyclists? Absolutly not and I strongly believe many of my motoring friends and family are completely unaware of the rules on sharing the road with cyclist. I'm not justifying these actions in anyway and looking back and knowing more about the rules I feel horrible about the situation I put this cyclist through.

I have to commend you for reflecting on the event afterwards and for recognising that you could have done things differently. Also, for sharing on this forum! Share your experience with your family and friends, too. The more drivers out there who know the laws and courtesies around cyclists, the better.

Another point I would like to add in is although i drive 6 days a week for at least 90 minutes a day I rarely(1-2 times a month) encounter cyclists on the road. Given this limited exposure it doesn't really prepare you or create the need(unsure on that wording) for drivers the be in tune with how to share the road with cyclists. Not that this is in anyway an acceptable excuse, there is none!

This is a theme that crops up fairly often on these pages: there needs to be a critical mass of cyclists before drivers expect to see them on the road before pulling out/giving way/changing lanes. Sometimes, cyclists aren't looked for (or seen) because the probability of one being there is very low. Cycling needs to be encouraged because once there are enough of us out there, we collectively become safer.

Once again, thanks for sharing.

[NASHIE]

Long time lurker/first time poster here. Firstly I must say that its great seeing people(try to) make these morons accountable for their actions towards other road users.

Now i'll weigh in with my 2cents. I have been driving on our roads for 10 years, I know not long but enough to assume I should be aware of my rights and responsibilities while driving, and riding casually for 2 months.
I will admit in my moron motorist case I was the moron motorist.

Driving through CBD of Geelong on a narrowish 4 lane road(2 each way) I'm driving in left lane behind a cyclist allowing him plenty of room as the next traffic lights are red. Once the light goes green cyclist who is stopped in gutter takes of late so I pass by no worries.
Sitting at next red light same rider pulls up seconds before lights go green he takes of very quickly, standing up on the pedals pushing hard, I take off slowly and catch up behind him as the intersections ends and the road narrows. He is sitting just left of left wheel track and I in my infinite wisdom think 'you fool get off the road' as I edge closer and drift far right into the lane as I squeeze by and keep on driving.

All was good(or so I thought) until I reached yet another red light. This time cyclist rides up on the right between the cars. Must be turning right I thought. Nope he was coming up to somewhat calmly berate me on my driving. f#*% of you idiot, Get of the F#*%ing road and you won't get hit ya w@nker was my reply.

This went on for the duration of the red light and continued for a short while once it went green. As I drove off and calmed down I though seriously what does he expect.

Now my point, through all my training and testing for my Learners and drivers license was I properly educated on laws around motorists and cyclists? Absolutly not and I strongly believe many of my motoring friends and family are completely unaware of the rules on sharing the road with cyclist. I'm not justifying these actions in anyway and looking back and knowing more about the rules I feel horrible about the situation I put this cyclist through.

Another point I would like to add in is although i drive 6 days a week for at least 90 minutes a day I rarely(1-2 times a month) encounter cyclists on the road. Given this limited exposure it doesn't really prepare you or create the need(unsure on that wording) for drivers the be in tune with how to share the road with cyclists. Not that this is in anyway an acceptable excuse, there is none!

You made a safe pass the first time and rider should then hold his place in the cue. Some riders feel its there right to que jump and force drivers into multiple overtaking of a slow road user. Your typical example shows the frustration this brings to motorists which can unfortunately at times not end well for the bike rider.