Australian Cycling Forums - Bicycles Network Australia

Hmm.... not a cycling incident, but surely moronic.

Driving home from our MAD Ride event, on Macarthur Rd, Royal Park in heavy traffic. Moving along slowly ~30-40kmh and there's a sudden noise on the left side - moto-nutter comes by in 'undertaker mode'. But of course - solid line and oncoming traffic on the right hand side, so we just go left

If I ever happen to see that move again I might just be trying to keep as far to the left as possible, like the road rules specify

Had a bit of an incident last week, but forgot to post it in here. Had a guy in a BMW 3 series who pulled out to go around me down a street with a roundabout on it and was too busy leaning over to the passenger side of the car yelling abuse out the window about being "useless" and "contributing nothing to society" and "!! BAN ME NOW FOR SWEARING !! lycra fag" to give way to the Mazda 3 which was already in the roundabout. Guy got T-boned at about 35km/h in the drivers door, and got smashed up pretty good. Blood coming out of his nose, right ear and mouth, probable broken right leg (was trapped between pedals/seat and door) and the entire right hand side of his face and shoulder looked like it had been slapped by the airbag.
Pretty sure the irony was lost on him that the person he was calling useless was the one making sure he didnt choke on his own blood....

You are a nicer bloke than me. I hope you gave the story to the coppers
Oh and well done.

takai wrote:Had a bit of an incident last week, but forgot to post it in here. Had a guy in a BMW 3 series who pulled out to go around me down a street with a roundabout on it and was too busy leaning over to the passenger side of the car yelling abuse out the window about being "useless" and "contributing nothing to society" and "flying bicycles lycra fag" to give way to the Mazda 3 which was already in the roundabout. Guy got T-boned at about 35km/h in the drivers door, and got smashed up pretty good. Blood coming out of his nose, right ear and mouth, probable broken right leg (was trapped between pedals/seat and door) and the entire right hand side of his face and shoulder looked like it had been slapped by the airbag.
Pretty sure the irony was lost on him that the person he was calling useless was the one making sure he didnt choke on his own blood....

Good on you for sticking around and making sure he was alright.

What a tosser.

Very well done on lending a hand and keeping the guy in the land of the living.

Would have just had to ask him, as they loaded him in the ambo "Now how useless do you think I am?"

Percrime wrote:You are a nicer bloke than me. I hope you gave the story to the coppers
Oh and well done.

+1

Yeah, waited for the cops to show up, and left after the MICA unit arrived. Gave my report and then headed on, wasnt any point in staying around.

TBH he would probably have been fine without any assistance, but i was still worried about him choking on his tongue and the blood in his mouth. He was pretty out of it mentally when i got to the car (i checked on the other driver first).

+10000. Wow, instant karmic retribution. Kudos to you for helping him out, great that you make a statement to the police about the behavior of that motorist and how it contributed to the accident. The report may then end up with their insurer and promote an even greater karmic resonance when the damage repair bill for both cars has to come out of the MM's pocket after the insurance claim is denied.

I know, this line of thought is not very sympathetic, but people like this should be thoroughly shown that their attitude and bullying tactics are inappropriate, puts people's lives in danger. If we are lucky it'll perhaps provide a shift of their perceptions towards other road users.

Big_Red wrote:The report may then end up with their insurer and promote an even greater karmic resonance when the damage repair bill for both cars has to come out of the MM's pocket after the insurance claim is denied.

Sadly, I don't believe that most insurance works this way. You have insurance to cover your stuff-ups as well as those of others. Only if he was charged with a criminal offence (eg. dangerous driving, culpable driving) would the insurance company be likely to deny cover.

That's right IP, hence the "may" in the post. If i was in the insurance game i would sure as hell be checking to see if there was a police report to see if there was contributory negligence. More likely if the guy has gone to hospital and needed surgery too.

I believe in this collision, contributory negligence would be very unlikely but would be that of the other driver.... and would be a way the insurance company would reduce their pay-out, by getting the other driver's insurance company to cover a %age.

The suggestion of the fool paying out of his own pocket would require a denial of cover. As I said, (I'm no expert) I believe this only occurs if you are subject to a criminal charge, but I may be wrong.

Another video, another roundabout ... not in the league of some later which I guess is a good thing.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CwTJ31QqDo&hd=1[/youtube]

I have shared a few more thoughts/background [urlhttp://cyclepolice.com/roundabout-2013-02/]here[/url].

Andrew

DavidS wrote:

Kev365428 wrote:

DavidS wrote: I gotta say I disagree with this.

I agree you don't need to fly off the handle. However, the driver clearly was not paying enough attention and if this is the cavalier way he drives he should not have a licence and certainly should not be allowed to ferry children around. Imagine if you had not anticipated his actions and had been injured or worse, that could mean a child without a parent, a spouse now a widow or widower, a family with a permanently injured member. I'm sorry, but you don't get to make mistakes like that, honest or not, when you are in control of a couple of tonnes of motor vehicle. It is completely unacceptable to claim you did not see another vehicle, you need to concentrate enough so you do see other vehicles.

DS

Tell me - what's it like to be perfect?

As you were not there, and did not see the drivers reaction when he realised his mistake, I don't think you are in any position to question my comments on the matter.

Kev.

Wow, the driver was shocked that they just about wiped someone out. Well in that case they can be excused I suppose. In fact, if any driver kills someone, but is shocked at the effect that not paying attention has, then I suppose we should let them off.

I never claimed to be perfect (nice straw man though), and I'm not. However, that incident is a case of someone not paying attention. The potential of this sort of incident is someone ends up dead or severely injured. Driving is too dangerous to just accept that mistakes like this are acceptable. In any case, it is not just a mistake. If the driver had been paying attention, like they should be, then the incident would not have happened. I've seen way too many near misses on the roads and a few accidents that were caused by a lack of concentration "mistake".

I continue to disagree with your position and I continue to hold the view that mistakes caused by a lack of concentration and a lack of taking due care while in control of a vehicle which probably weighs at least 1.5 tonnes is unacceptable. As I said, you don't need to fly off the handle, but the driver does need to be told in no uncertain terms that they should raise the standard of their driving.

DS

So tell me, what's it like to be perfect? Oh wait, Kev already asked you that...

hannos wrote:So tell me, what's it like to be perfect? Oh wait, Kev already asked you that...

So would you be comfortable with this driver doing this again maybe with possibly more serious consequences? Do you know if they have done this before? I don't and I haven't a clue about the drivers in any of the incidents I have experienced.

These are never black and white matters and frankly none of us, and that includes myself, Kev, DS and yourself. None of us I suspect have a clue about this driver's history, whether in fact he or she was licensed and on it goes. Just being "nice" at the time does not mean this is the first time or will be the last time.

To illustrate ... My partner gave a glowing personal testament on behalf of her daughter's boyfriend at the time. He had driven through a red light and killed a motorcyclist prior or early in the relationship it seems. She thought he was a genuine young man who had made a stupid one-off error of judgement. He went to jail for 18 months. My partner's daughter visited him in jail at every opportunity she could, i.e., at least twice a week .... that was a three hour round trip BTW later into the sentence. Well without going into the details, the boyfriend turned out not be so nice after all and really shattered my partner's daughter for sometime post his release. Also further "facts" came to light afterwards including that he had been drinking (he denied this in Court of course) on it goes.

My point: Even perception after knowing someone for a year or two can be wrong; a fleeting meeting at the scene of an incident is hardly the basis for forming a personality assessment.

Personally, I have made the same decision as Kev did based on the same type of response, but I do think in hindsight I should have reported the incident. I could have noted the apology in my report to the Police and asked that a caution be given if deemed appropriate. The WA Police will take that request into consideration from my understanding.

That is letting the Police review the driver's status and history. It may well turn out that it is a one-off and the chat with the Police may be sufficient to reduce the chances of it happening again, on the other hand it may well turn out to be a quite a different story.

Just a thought ...

Cheers
Andrew

Big_Red wrote:
That's right IP, hence the "may" in the post. If i was in the insurance game i would sure as hell be checking to see if there was a police report to see if there was contributory negligence. More likely if the guy has gone to hospital and needed surgery too.

As a matter of course the insurance company will acquire a copy of the police report and any written witness statements if there are any. If the BMW driver has'nt been charged with any driving offenses the insurance company will have to pay up. Thats assuming he's insured of course.

Really KC, that was a total non-event. Did you even need to stop pedalling or even ease off at all, let alone apply the brakes? There was a gap nearly wide enough to drive a car through in any case between the parked car and the car pulling out from the right.

Ross wrote:Really KC, that was a total non-event. Did you even need to stop pedalling or even ease off at all, let alone apply the brakes? There was a gap nearly wide enough to drive a car through in any case between the parked car and the car pulling out from the right.

I disagree here. The vehicle was entering a road from a road-related area into the path of on-coming traffic, traffic they are supposed to give way to but did not. That in itself is an infringement in NSW.

hannos wrote:

Ross wrote:Really KC, that was a total non-event. Did you even need to stop pedalling or even ease off at all, let alone apply the brakes? There was a gap nearly wide enough to drive a car through in any case between the parked car and the car pulling out from the right.

I disagree here. The vehicle was entering a road from a road-related area into the path of on-coming traffic, traffic they are supposed to give way to but did not. That in itself is an infringement in NSW.

have had that happen to me when I was doing *cough* 60km/h in a 60 zone. definitely not a non-event.

Having to ride through a gap between parked cars and a car pulling out from the right is not what I would describe a a "safe strategy". We often find it necessary to do it, however drivers are required to give way - this was not that.

The driver was either half-asleep, a total duffus, or deliberately trying to block KC, as the car initially pulled out with plenty of room to be gone well before KC arrived.... but they just sat there.... maybe reading the new format Age ??

Got a call from a constable at Dee Why police. Just need to go in and make a formal statement and a TIN will be issued.

trailgumby wrote:Got a call from a constable at Dee Why police. Just need to go in and make a formal statement and a TIN will be issued.

That's great news!

trailgumby wrote:
Got a call from a constable at Dee Why police. Just need to go in and make a formal statement and a TIN will be issued.

Did she say, "But you're a bicycle" If so... classic

trailgumby wrote:Got a call from a constable at Dee Why police. Just need to go in and make a formal statement and a TIN will be issued.

Well done. Hopefully the driver learns from the experience as well.

Andrew