Moron Motorists #3

open topic, for anything cycling related.

Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:39 pm

jules21 wrote:
warning: questionable choice of language may be heard in this video.

What is the question? Your comment seemed perfectly appropriate in the circumstance. :)
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by BNA » Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:43 pm

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:43 pm

Marto wrote:Here is a bus passing me within my lane (not the closest pass, but not the best way to do it), and resultant conversation with driver. Just went to give them a FYI rather than a rant. His attitude ended up being far worse than the pass!

Of course, the video camera did a save and continue just at the point of passing :roll: , so a few frames are missing at the critical moment (but you can see from the time stamp bottom left that only one second is lost).


Yeah Marto. "You're in the way". (Sub text - "Bugger off. Cyclists not welcome to share my road." :roll:
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Aushiker » Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:14 pm

An update on this incident (not one of my better moments). The back story can be found here.



The update is the Western Australian Police response:

March 10, 2013: I have had a phone call from an officer at West Metropolitan at the WA Police and he has advised that the vehicle is an Avis rental car and the driver is from South Australia. Whilst the driver did commit an offence and would have had a Traffic Infringement Notice (TIN) issued, because he had returned to South Australia by the time the police go the report nothing more could be done. This was really my fault as I was slow in getting the report filed and of course I sent it to the Commissioner’s office so it had to get passed on through etc. So the moral of the story is to act much more quickly on these incidents. At least the Police did come back with a positive attitude which is great to see.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Ross » Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:56 pm

Wouldn't the rental car company have the driver's address details on record?! I would of thought it would be a simple matter of the police asking for those details and then sending the fine to that address. It shouldn't matter that the offence was committed in a different state to where the alleged :roll: offender lives.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jasonc » Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:02 pm

Ross wrote:Wouldn't the rental car company have the driver's address details on record?! I would of thought it would be a simple matter of the police asking for those details and then sending the fine to that address. It shouldn't matter that the offense was committed in a different state to where the alleged :roll: offender lives.


+1 rental car companies find a way to on-charge tool charges.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby arkle » Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:38 pm

Ross wrote:Wouldn't the rental car company have the driver's address details on record?! I would of thought it would be a simple matter of the police asking for those details and then sending the fine to that address. It shouldn't matter that the offence was committed in a different state to where the alleged :roll: offender lives.


Just call Avis. Say you're calling from SA and ask them to fax a duplicate receipt to you. Give them the date and rego plate. I do it all the time.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Kev365428 » Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:39 pm

This one from my commute home the other day.



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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jules21 » Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:01 pm

Ross wrote:Wouldn't the rental car company have the driver's address details on record?! I would of thought it would be a simple matter of the police asking for those details and then sending the fine to that address. It shouldn't matter that the offence was committed in a different state to where the alleged :roll: offender lives.

the offender has a right to contest the fine, but it would be impracticable for them to do so once they've left the state. it would be unfair to infringe them in that circumstance.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:11 pm

Ross wrote:Wouldn't the rental car company have the driver's address details on record?! I would of thought it would be a simple matter of the police asking for those details and then sending the fine to that address. It shouldn't matter that the offence was committed in a different state to where the alleged :roll: offender lives.

The police are not saying that they cannot contact him. In fact they said they will be sending a traffic infringement notice. However if (when?) he chooses to ignore it, then for all practical purposes, the matter goes no further. It is not like the WA Government can terminate his SA license for non-payment of fines. Even if they had got him to court here, again what can they do to force him to pay.

I understand (not sure) that in WA speeding fines can be levied on the owner. However as the legislative provisions came in response to fleets claiming that they could not ID the driver then I am unsure if the legislation can be applied if the owner does ID the person. If the fine can be put on the hire fleet, and as some have suggested, perhaps this could cause the hire company to retain some of his deposit if they still have it.

Regardless the police are going to issue the driver with the TIN, not the fleet.

As far as "It shouldn't matter that the offence was committed in a different state " that may be how you want it but not how it is. It comes with living in a federation.

And as Jules states it would be unreasonable to expect the driver to lob up to a WA court to contest the matter.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby DentedHead » Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:14 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote:And as Jules states it would be unreasonable to expect the driver to lob up to a WA court to contest the matter.


To this I say, tough cookies. If you don't want the inconvenience of traveling to a different state to contest a fine, then don't do something that will get you fined. It's pretty hard to get incorrectly issued a TIN. I've driven for over a decade and never gotten one.


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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby il padrone » Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:35 pm

Fleet cars and abrogation of responsibility is an outrageous scam. It extends further than just minor traffic offences.

Many years ago I was going out to the movies in the city and drove into a parking space (in median strip) as another car left. Apparently another driver was waiting on the other side of the road. This jumped-up prat came across and assaulted me as I was getting out of the car. We got the rego (despite his girlfriend and mates trying to block it) and reported to the police. Turned out, when they got back to me later that it was a company car and "could not identify who was driving" :roll: :x

Load of BS. If the company won't ID the driver then they should be wearing the criminal assault charge, bugger 'em !!
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby zero » Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:52 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote:
And as Jules states it would be unreasonable to expect the driver to lob up to a WA court to contest the matter.


If the cop wants to fine you interstate he will, and if you want to contest the infringement you will have to return. This cop wants to avoid issuing this infringement, because it is not a police observed infringement, and the driver is a long way away, ie he's work dodging. The whole point to the shared points legislation was to prevent demerit points from failing to function in interstate offences. There is a full framework to make driving infringements go state-state as well as loss of licence.

Also if moving state prevented a debt or a fine being legitimate in this country, then woaah do I* have *bridges you can buy, in all shapes and sizes.





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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby fatdudeonabike » Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:24 pm

Wait...

I live in the ACT...

Does this mean I don't have to slow down for the speed cameras when driving to Sydney any more, as the NSW Govt has no jurisdiction over my license? My 3 hour drive might've just become 2 hours :P
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby bychosis » Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:04 pm

Not cycle related, but...
Travelling up the Hume this arvo, spotted a bikie group ride approaching from behind in formation. Figured they would pass by in the fast lane and all would be good. No, they decided they needed to move to slow lane and near all of 10-15 of the riders on the left of their two abreast formation just about shaved a coat of paint off the front of the car. I didn't care that the were no indicators, nor expect them. The group also then had to slow up meaning I also had to slow before moving back into he fast lane to pass the car in front, again with a close shave. I know they were being all tough n that, but had one of hem clipped our car I could have cleaned up half a dozen in the aftermath and then I'm sure they would have given me the blame for driving safely at the speed limit and within my lane. If they had flown past at 150 it would have been less moronic.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby hannos » Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:25 am

To the RED P-Plater driving south along the M5 just after it changes to 100 (which lasts about 500m before it goes to 110km/h), driving erratically at less than 70km/h on the freeway, in the second to right hand lane (mostly...), with no hands on the wheel and looking down while texting...

Get your head checked...
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby clydesmcdale » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:10 am

Got tooted and yelled at to get off the road, when rolling through at about 45 in a 50 zone. Nothing unusual, except when I look back and see a lone occupant in a car with L plates displayed. Ironic much? :shock:
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Shifter » Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:34 am

Out riding with the missus, got tooted, shaved, abused etc for claiming the lane on Karel Ave, which has recently been resurfaced. The road normally has a bike lane, however it is yet to be re-marked and thus cars therefore assume it no longer exists.

To the guy whose bit of fun almost killed me, thanks for driving slow enough so that I could follow you home.

Seriously how hard is it to drive courteously less than 2km from your house. On a road you know has a bike lane. I seriously wish I had a camera.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby ldrcycles » Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:48 am

Went for a bit of a ride around Brisbane yesterday afternoon, very nice for the most part, riding smack bang in the middle of the lane on 2/3 lane roads with ALL traffic safely and sensibly going around, except for one bloke in a Colorado ute who beeped his horn at me and then passed fairly closely (i wouldn't call it a close shave, but much closer than necessary, and definitely deliberate). Thing is i was doing the limit, and there was another lane completely bare of traffic right next to me :roll: .
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby il padrone » Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:55 am

There are people about who are just so indignant about their rights to their lane that they have to accost you and push the limits. If they are far enough behind me and not doing a high-speed pass, it is fun to stick the right arm out, look around, or even do a bit of a wiggle to the right. They sure go wide enough then :wink:

It's often helpful to do some personal traffic-calming this way. An erratic cyclist is something they all want to stay clear of.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Lukeyboy » Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:11 pm

Let me guess... Along Gympie/Lutyche Roads?
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby trailgumby » Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:51 pm

Aushiker wrote:An update on this incident (not one of my better moments). The back story can be found here.

The update is the Western Australian Police response:

March 10, 2013: I have had a phone call from an officer at West Metropolitan at the WA Police and he has advised that the vehicle is an Avis rental car and the driver is from South Australia. Whilst the driver did commit an offence and would have had a Traffic Infringement Notice (TIN) issued, because he had returned to South Australia by the time the police go the report nothing more could be done. This was really my fault as I was slow in getting the report filed and of course I sent it to the Commissioner’s office so it had to get passed on through etc. So the moral of the story is to act much more quickly on these incidents. At least the Police did come back with a positive attitude which is great to see.

Regards
Andrew

I'd have thought that was the perfect opportunity to issue a TIN... the guy isn't going to come back to contest it. :lol: But I'm guessing he perhaps has the option to contest it in his home state, and then it gets expensive and a disproportionate budgetary risk to ship police and witnesses from where they live to appear in court for a piddly $300 fine.

I had a driver hit me up the back (in the car) a few years ago and take off. Same excuse - interstate registered car, too hard.

I'd have thought it was as simple as getting me to ID the driver from his photo and then mail the TIN to his last known address. Wrong address? You need to keep your details current, son: address changes to be advised within 21 days.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby trailgumby » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:04 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote:I understand (not sure) that in WA speeding fines can be levied on the owner. However as the legislative provisions came in response to fleets claiming that they could not ID the driver then I am unsure if the legislation can be applied if the owner does ID the person. If the fine can be put on the hire fleet, and as some have suggested, perhaps this could cause the hire company to retain some of his deposit if they still have it.

In NSW if you try to play that "unknown driver" game your whole fleet is off the road until you provide the requested info. I remember the kerfuffle it caused at the company I worked for at the time - a lot of effort and money went into systems to ensure that information would be accurate, as non-compliance would have taken down their business.

For private owners, you cop it unless you provide a Stat Dec identifying the actual driver. And don't be tempted to lie - they will be looking at you closely. Marcus Einfeld found out the hard way. :lol:
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby outnabike » Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:05 pm

trailgumby wrote:
ColinOldnCranky wrote:I understand (not sure) that in WA speeding fines can be levied on the owner. However as the legislative provisions came in response to fleets claiming that they could not ID the driver then I am unsure if the legislation can be applied if the owner does ID the person. If the fine can be put on the hire fleet, and as some have suggested, perhaps this could cause the hire company to retain some of his deposit if they still have it.

In NSW if you try to play that "unknown driver" game your whole fleet is off the road until you provide the requested info. I remember the kerfuffle it caused at the company I worked for at the time - a lot of effort and money went into systems to ensure that information would be accurate, as non-compliance would have taken down their business.

For private owners, you cop it unless you provide a Stat Dec identifying the actual driver. And don't be tempted to lie - they will be looking at you closely. Marcus Einfeld found out the hard way. :lol:


In Vic we had many cases of police speeding etc, but no officer was charged due to no one owning up to being the driver. Police needed to be visibly identified at the wheel.They all got off.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby il padrone » Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:13 pm

outnabike wrote:In Vic we had many cases of police speeding etc, but no officer was charged due to no one owning up to being the driver. Police needed to be visibly identified at the wheel.They all got off.

Under the Victorian Road Rules (Rue 305) Police have a general exemption from any road rules when it is"reasonable that the provisions should not apply" and when driving taking reasonable care, even possibly when not using lights and sirens.

Generally this translates to OK in the course of 'police business'. It is always a judgement call related to the situation.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Aushiker » Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:15 pm

outnabike wrote:In Vic we had many cases of police speeding etc, but no officer was charged due to no one owning up to being the driver. Police needed to be visibly identified at the wheel.They all got off.


I have been given a lift on an Audax ride (DNF) when I was struggling to get back to the car (this was in the country). They cruised along at 120 km/h in a 110 km/h zone. I guess they want to get me dropped off ASAP in case something more serious came up.

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