Moron Motorists #3

open topic, for anything cycling related.

Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby hannos » Wed May 01, 2013 10:50 am

Have an absolute ripper from yesterday afternoon...



Currently writing up a report to send off the the local boys in blue...
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by BNA » Wed May 01, 2013 10:58 am

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby familyguy » Wed May 01, 2013 10:58 am

Outing myself here...had a narrow miss with a guy this morning due to double-merging cars (me across to the centre just as outside lane car merges into centre), resulting in the rider being rather unfairly startled by me as I passed him closer than I'd planned. He was lane-claiming quite fairly, and I was quite prepared to damage the car opposite me rather than knock him off. His actions for the next ten minutes made me believe he wouldn't have stuck around for evidence if it had some to that, though. More on that in the Dumb Cyclists thread though...

But if you're on here Mr. Warringah Road Pannier MTB Ranting Guy, sorry.

Jim
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Kev365428 » Wed May 01, 2013 11:00 am

Glad there were no cyclists in the breakdown lane.

Keep us informed.

Kev.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby hannos » Wed May 01, 2013 11:12 am

Luckily, there's a shared path from Rhodes to Sydney Olympic Park on the other side of the road which is what peds and cyclists use. Only ever seen one cyclist ridng along the breakdown lane there.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Summernight » Wed May 01, 2013 11:49 am

Nice camera view, Hannos. I'm so used to seeing bicycle videos on here that when I watched yours my first thought was 'what kind of bike is that?' Silly me. :D

Red Rider wrote:Was waiting at an intersection this arvo, a bus was waiting to turn right so a bright young lady thought it would be a good idea to turn in front of this bus, completely blind to oncoming traffic in the lane next to the bus. As unfortunate luck would have it a motorbike was passing the bus. He nearly stopped in time, but went over the handlebars, landed on the cars bonnet, and the bike flipped onto the back of his legs. As I saw his back wheel leave the ground I thought I was going to witness a very nasty crash.

Luckily it just seemed like bruising, he moved his legs about to check how bad it was then picked up his poor beloved resplendent with cracked plastic front end. The lady was very apologetic, the chap took it very well, was just happy with his landing and nothing broken. I quipped to him "cars eh!", gave him my details and left them to sort themselves out. He's going to feel it tomorrow.

All in all one of the most stupid things I've seen recently, turning in front of a BUS??? Seriously, no amount of apologies can make up for how thick you must be to do that.


Someone clearly missed out (or wasn't paying attention) on this part in her hazard perception test. That was one of the key things they taught us - don't go unless you can see where you are going. In fact I think one of my questions on my p-plates test was this exact scenario - big bus turning right, you turning right in the opposite direction. When do you go? WHEN YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE WHETHER THERE IS ANY ONCOMING TRAFFIC. (Sorry for the caps).
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby kb » Wed May 01, 2013 12:04 pm

Almost ran into a motorbike (L-plate) this morning. He was ahead on my right slowing down, then turned left into me. I stated it was customary to use the left indicator for turning left. His reponse, "Learner".
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby oxonabike » Wed May 01, 2013 2:14 pm

This is what happens when you fail to claim the lane properly. This is an intersection off the Bruce Hwy, and has a couple of potentially nasty left hook zones, including the roundabout at the end of the vid. On this stretch, I stay out in the left lane to prevent getting hooked by cars turning into the shopping centre, and also by those that turn left at the roundabout. Once past the first roundabout exit, I'm happy to slip back in to the left of the fog line, as this is a decent climb and holding a decent speed in the lane blows you up a bit. This has worked faultlessly for the past several months.

So today, coming home from an early shift, I'm not concentrating and drift a little too far left, opening up an opportunity for a close shave. I blame myself really.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jasonc » Wed May 01, 2013 2:29 pm

oxonabike wrote:I blame myself really.


I disagree that it's your fault. That's just MGIF syndrome. But yes, being further right would/could have prevented that.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Summernight » Wed May 01, 2013 2:30 pm

oxonabike wrote:This is what happens when you fail to claim the lane properly. This is an intersection off the Bruce Hwy, and has a couple of potentially nasty left hook zones, including the roundabout at the end of the vid. On this stretch, I stay out in the left lane to prevent getting hooked by cars turning into the shopping centre, and also by those that turn left at the roundabout. Once past the first roundabout exit, I'm happy to slip back in to the left of the fog line, as this is a decent climb and holding a decent speed in the lane blows you up a bit. This has worked faultlessly for the past several months.

So today, coming home from an early shift, I'm not concentrating and drift a little too far left, opening up an opportunity for a close shave. I blame myself really.



I love how the car cuts across the two lane roundabout and uses both lanes without indicating so they don't have to turn as much or use more brain power. Isn't that an offence in itself? :roll:
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby hannos » Wed May 01, 2013 2:32 pm

Kev365428 wrote:Glad there were no cyclists in the breakdown lane.

Keep us informed.

Kev.



What a croc.
I attended Burwood police station and submitted the information as per Oxford's form.
Constable Atkinson initially said no TINs could be issued from video submitted by the public. When I mentioned I know of others that have had TINs issued and been notified of this he changed his story. Now it would take some time to identify the driver and I'd only be notified if it went to court.

Personally I think that is a cop out but don't know how to proceed further.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Summernight » Wed May 01, 2013 2:53 pm

hannos wrote:
Kev365428 wrote:Glad there were no cyclists in the breakdown lane.

Keep us informed.

Kev.



What a croc.
I attended Burwood police station and submitted the information as per Oxford's form.
Constable Atkinson initially said no TINs could be issued from video submitted by the public. When I mentioned I know of others that have had TINs issued and been notified of this he changed his story. Now it would take some time to identify the driver and I'd only be notified if it went to court.

Personally I think that is a cop out but don't know how to proceed further.


Move it up the chain of command if nothing happens? That seems to be what Aushiker does in his area.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby hannos » Wed May 01, 2013 2:56 pm

Summernight wrote:
hannos wrote:
Kev365428 wrote:Glad there were no cyclists in the breakdown lane.

Keep us informed.

Kev.



What a croc.
I attended Burwood police station and submitted the information as per Oxford's form.
Constable Atkinson initially said no TINs could be issued from video submitted by the public. When I mentioned I know of others that have had TINs issued and been notified of this he changed his story. Now it would take some time to identify the driver and I'd only be notified if it went to court.

Personally I think that is a cop out but don't know how to proceed further.


Move it up the chain of command if nothing happens? That seems to be what Aushiker does in his area.



Might have to. From their very own Police Handbook:

Front counter enquiries

Ensure victims receive an event number and a victim’s card.

Use interpreter or disability
services where appropriate.

Ensure initial victim follow-up occurs within
seven days and that all ongoing follow-up
occurs within seven days and that all ongoing follow-up complies with the
Charter of
Victims’ Rights
.

Try to resolve the customer’s matter at the first point of contact.

I was neither offered nor given an event number. Seems I really was being fobbed off.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby find_bruce » Wed May 01, 2013 3:39 pm

hannos wrote:I was neither offered nor given an event number. Seems I really was being fobbed off.

Call the Police Assistance Line: 131 444. Tell them that you saw Constable Atkinson at Burwood police station but it appears you weren't given an event number & were hoping that they could assist. If there is no event number, at least you will then have an event number for the "please explain" heading Constable Atkinson's way.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Mulger bill » Wed May 01, 2013 3:45 pm

find_bruce wrote:
hannos wrote:I was neither offered nor given an event number. Seems I really was being fobbed off.

Call the Police Assistance Line: 131 444. Tell them that you saw Constable Atkinson at Burwood police station but it appears you weren't given an event number & were hoping that they could assist. If there is no event number, at least you will then have an event number for the "please explain" heading Constable Atkinson's way.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby ironhanglider » Wed May 01, 2013 4:30 pm

Mulger bill wrote:
find_bruce wrote:
hannos wrote:I was neither offered nor given an event number. Seems I really was being fobbed off.

Call the Police Assistance Line: 131 444. Tell them that you saw Constable Atkinson at Burwood police station but it appears you weren't given an event number & were hoping that they could assist. If there is no event number, at least you will then have an event number for the "please explain" heading Constable Atkinson's way.

"Sneaky!"
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This discussion is too heady for me, I'm going back to the shed.

Cheers,

Cameron
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Lukeyboy » Wed May 01, 2013 5:40 pm

Summernight wrote:I love how the car cuts across the two lane roundabout and uses both lanes without indicating so they don't have to turn as much or use more brain power. Isn't that an offence in itself? :roll:


Its enough to fail your drivers licence test.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby ldrcycles » Wed May 01, 2013 6:25 pm

Hannos that video is damn scary, hopefully it does get to an officer who will actually do something about it.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Howzat » Wed May 01, 2013 7:02 pm

ldrcycles wrote:Hannos that video is damn scary, hopefully it does get to an officer who will actually do something about it.

+1. This was a definitely a "cop out", so to speak. The theory seems to be either that it's not dangerous driving if a cop doesn't see it, or that it will take some time to look up the plates on the computer. Did he actually look at the video?
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby AndrewBurns » Wed May 01, 2013 7:21 pm

That's some pretty clear cut insane driving, if the plate is clearly visible then it should be a no brainer to slap some punishment on that driver. That kind of driving would lead me to believe that that person is generally a danger on the road (I can imagine a person driving like that would be doing it fairly regularly).
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby hannos » Wed May 01, 2013 7:54 pm

Howzat wrote:
ldrcycles wrote:Hannos that video is damn scary, hopefully it does get to an officer who will actually do something about it.

+1. This was a definitely a "cop out", so to speak. The theory seems to be either that it's not dangerous driving if a cop doesn't see it, or that it will take some time to look up the plates on the computer. Did he actually look at the video?


Claimed he couldnt watch it on his PC, said it was a
faeces computer


Think I'll be escalating this one...
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby herzog » Wed May 01, 2013 7:56 pm

hannos wrote:
Howzat wrote:
ldrcycles wrote:Hannos that video is damn scary, hopefully it does get to an officer who will actually do something about it.

+1. This was a definitely a "cop out", so to speak. The theory seems to be either that it's not dangerous driving if a cop doesn't see it, or that it will take some time to look up the plates on the computer. Did he actually look at the video?


Claimed he couldnt watch it on his PC, said it was a
faeces computer


Think I'll be escalating this one...



Can you take in a laptop or ipad and show him right there?

Other thing I heard if you get no joy from the front desk guy is to ask to speak with the traffic sergeant.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby hannos » Wed May 01, 2013 8:23 pm

It was at Burwood since they're the LAC for where the incident happened. I'm not there until next monday now so I'll call the help line and see what they say regarding a incident number, then contact Burwood LAC and escalate.

My form even has the Youtube link on it so there's no excuse for not being able to see it.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Howzat » Wed May 01, 2013 8:46 pm

herzog wrote:Can you take in a laptop or ipad and show him right there?

+1. There will be a stampede to pay the guy a visit if they see that footage.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby hannos » Wed May 01, 2013 9:10 pm

Sutherland LAC posted something about the 10 most mis-understood rules on their FB site.
So I replied with my youtube clip. The response?


Senior Constable Dave Hayes

Thank you for sharing this footage Sean. I will make further enquiries with Traffic & Highway Patrol Command. however, the advice you received may be correct.

I'm not trained as a legal practitioner, however, there may be difficulty introducing this footage in evidence at Court, as the video is not time/date stamped. Without that stamp, it can create doubt.

Criminal Court requires the Magistrate to reach a decision of "Beyond reasonable doubt".

Regards,
Senior Constable Dave Hayes


So the next question is, how do I time / date stamp my GoPro Hero 2?
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jules21 » Wed May 01, 2013 9:29 pm

hannos wrote:So the next question is, how do I time / date stamp my GoPro Hero 2?

Sean, you don't need to time stamp it.

all you - and anyone else seeking to have police take action on an incident - is provide sufficient evidence of an offence that a magistrate may find a charge proven, beyond reasonable doubt. this is the key issue - not time stamps, not whether a police officer directly witnessed the incident, nor anything else.

video footage serves as supplementary evidence to other forms which may support any charge against a driver. the principal form of evidence is your testimony. video footage - so long as it does not contradict your testimony - can never harm the strength of any case against a motorist. it can only strengthen it, or at worst, have no impact.

it is a myth perpetuated by police and republished on this site from time to time that any case against a motorist can be discounted by police on account of perceived shortcomings with video footage alone. the evidence must be assessed in whole.

the reason that the officer is absolutely incorrect in saying that the footage is useless if not time stamped is that there are other means of establishing the time and date of a given incident. the obvious means is - through your testimony. in on its own, police will tend not to pursue a charge against a motorist if there is no corroborating evidence for your testimony.

this is the beauty of video footage. given under oath, it is unlikely a court would dismiss the outright occurrence of an incident - why would you fabricate one? what a court may dismiss is your interpretation of the incident itself - you have an obvious incentive to gild the lilly, in order to make the other party (motorist) look guilty. but if it is corroborated by video footage - your testimony gains additional weight.

to reject that - a court must find it conceivable that you somehow found the video footage and fabricated the charge against the motorist, for reasons which don't seem immediately apparent. there is no motive for you to do that. a court would - in my view- dismiss that as a source of reasonable doubt. with no credible explanation for how you came to possess the incriminating footage - apart from that provided by your testimonry - it is then compelled to accept the footage as evidence in support of your testimony.

what the police continue to do is fob cyclists off with ham-fisted attempts at bamboozling them with nonsensical legal interpretations. they probably aren't really sure if there is much substance to their claims, but they are sure they don't want to have to follow up all these recorded incidents - i.e. increased workload.
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