Moron Motorists #3

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby skull » Fri May 10, 2013 8:46 pm

If you look on the Brooklyn video the instigators and his friends all has 2 way radios.

So you there is a bit more going on with that video then just a MM against a cyclist, somewhat a little bit too organised.
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by BNA » Fri May 10, 2013 9:34 pm

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jules21 » Fri May 10, 2013 9:34 pm

this discussion isn't going to last..
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby trailgumby » Fri May 10, 2013 10:13 pm

jules21 wrote:this discussion isn't going to last..

But that vid is going to go viral ... 53,000+ hits already
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jules21 » Fri May 10, 2013 10:19 pm

trailgumby wrote:But that vid is going to go viral ... 53,000+ hits already

i have hairier vids than that with < 100 hits. i think i know one reason it's gone viral...
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby trailgumby » Fri May 10, 2013 10:33 pm

... yep, manipulative tossers doing their best to live up to people's worst preconceptions of their self-identified social group.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jules21 » Fri May 10, 2013 10:39 pm

i like how they all break out their mobile phones and start recording the cyclist. geniuses, that only works if the person you're videoing is doing something wrong!
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby trailgumby » Fri May 10, 2013 11:35 pm

jules21 wrote:i like how they all break out their mobile phones and start recording the cyclist. geniuses, that only works if the person you're videoing is doing something wrong!

My reading of that was they were intimidating him out of using force to free himself from their detaining of him. You'll notice they use their bodies to block his path but never at any stage touch him physically. Then they grab the bike that he is holding onto instead of laying hands directly on him, to stop him leaving.

Interesting psychology in evidence here. Their mastery at staying strictly within the letter of the law while driving a truck though the spirit of it is impressive.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Bah77 » Fri May 10, 2013 11:44 pm

Illegal detention is not within the letter of the law at all.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby trailgumby » Fri May 10, 2013 11:56 pm

Indeed. But you can see where they're headed can't you. Cornering the victim into entering legal grey areas to defend and assert his rights with a view to playing the victim if strikes out in frustration or goes to push past.
Last edited by trailgumby on Sat May 11, 2013 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Hardyakka » Sat May 11, 2013 12:37 am

Not really. i see it as a clear breach of his rights. He'd have a fair case for illegal detention/unlawful imprisonment. The driver is heard saying "You're not going anywhere" repeatedly and standing/manoeuvring himself in front of him blocking his path. When he recruits others to do the same and then grabs the bike, it's even more clearer what his intentions are.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Ross » Sat May 11, 2013 9:02 am

Moron motorist(s) encounter last night on my commute home. Riding along a shared path that ends at an intersection and there is a pedestrian crossing that takes you to a traffic island at the edge of the traffic light controlled intersection. I'm riding along the path and I have the option of turning right and continuing along the path or going left across the pedestrian crossing. I'm going left so I signal my intention by sticking my left arm out about 20m before the crossing. As I approach 2 cars ignore/don't see me and continue through, I'm mildly annoyed but I'm pretty used to it so don't get to bothered by it. Then Mr White Ute Tosser comes along and I'm at the edge of the crossing now, my front wheel is about 20cm from the white paint of the crossing on the road and WUT continues on and blocks my way (he is only going slow because he is coming from a side road and merging onto a main road). I'm contemplating whether to throw my bike at the side of his vehicle wondering if he then might notice me I decide that my bike is too valuable for that so I call out loudly "are you right there?". He stops, in the middle of the pedestrian crossing, puts his handbrake on and rolls down his window while I ride around the rear of his ute (wasn't game to ride in front incase he decided to run over me) and starts telling me how the pedestrian crossing is for pedestrians and not cyclists. I reply that it's not for vehicles either and he should move. I suggested he pull his vehicle over (away from the ped crossing) so we could have a better "discussion" of the road rules but of course he declined and then Mr Mouth But No Balls behind him in a Camry decides to start abusing me while he drives off into the distance. I extended my invitation to "discuss" the road rules with him too but he also declined.

Ha. Scared of a 70kg cyclist. They are all big and tough when it's 2 tonnes of metal and plastic against <80kg of carbon fibre and flesh and blood. They are probably lucky that they didn't stop. So.F%#$ing.Angry.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby InTheWoods » Sat May 11, 2013 10:10 am

Ross wrote:Moron motorist(s) encounter last night on my commute home. Riding along a shared path that ends at an intersection and there is a pedestrian crossing that takes you to a traffic island at the edge of the traffic light controlled intersection. I'm riding along the path and I have the option of turning right and continuing along the path or going left across the pedestrian crossing. I'm going left so I signal my intention by sticking my left arm out about 20m before the crossing. As I approach 2 cars ignore/don't see me and continue through, I'm mildly annoyed but I'm pretty used to it so don't get to bothered by it. Then Mr White Ute Tosser comes along and I'm at the edge of the crossing now, my front wheel is about 20cm from the white paint of the crossing on the road and WUT continues on and blocks my way (he is only going slow because he is coming from a side road and merging onto a main road). I'm contemplating whether to throw my bike at the side of his vehicle wondering if he then might notice me I decide that my bike is too valuable for that so I call out loudly "are you right there?". He stops, in the middle of the pedestrian crossing, puts his handbrake on and rolls down his window while I ride around the rear of his ute (wasn't game to ride in front incase he decided to run over me) and starts telling me how the pedestrian crossing is for pedestrians and not cyclists. I reply that it's not for vehicles either and he should move. I suggested he pull his vehicle over (away from the ped crossing) so we could have a better "discussion" of the road rules but of course he declined and then Mr Mouth But No Balls behind him in a Camry decides to start abusing me while he drives off into the distance. I extended my invitation to "discuss" the road rules with him too but he also declined.

Ha. Scared of a 70kg cyclist. They are all big and tough when it's 2 tonnes of metal and plastic against <80kg of carbon fibre and flesh and blood. They are probably lucky that they didn't stop. So.F%#$ing.Angry.


I'm presuming you had dismounted the bike to cross the ped crossing as required by the road rules?!

Or maybe your state didnt adopt that rule?
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby VRE » Sat May 11, 2013 11:41 am

InTheWoods wrote:
Ross wrote:Moron motorist(s) encounter last night on my commute home. Riding along a shared path that ends at an intersection and there is a pedestrian crossing that takes you to a traffic island at the edge of the traffic light controlled intersection. I'm riding along the path and I have the option of turning right and continuing along the path or going left across the pedestrian crossing. I'm going left so I signal my intention by sticking my left arm out about 20m before the crossing. As I approach 2 cars ignore/don't see me and continue through, I'm mildly annoyed but I'm pretty used to it so don't get to bothered by it. Then Mr White Ute Tosser comes along and I'm at the edge of the crossing now, my front wheel is about 20cm from the white paint of the crossing on the road and WUT continues on and blocks my way (he is only going slow because he is coming from a side road and merging onto a main road). I'm contemplating whether to throw my bike at the side of his vehicle wondering if he then might notice me I decide that my bike is too valuable for that so I call out loudly "are you right there?". He stops, in the middle of the pedestrian crossing, puts his handbrake on and rolls down his window while I ride around the rear of his ute (wasn't game to ride in front incase he decided to run over me) and starts telling me how the pedestrian crossing is for pedestrians and not cyclists. I reply that it's not for vehicles either and he should move. I suggested he pull his vehicle over (away from the ped crossing) so we could have a better "discussion" of the road rules but of course he declined and then Mr Mouth But No Balls behind him in a Camry decides to start abusing me while he drives off into the distance. I extended my invitation to "discuss" the road rules with him too but he also declined.

Ha. Scared of a 70kg cyclist. They are all big and tough when it's 2 tonnes of metal and plastic against <80kg of carbon fibre and flesh and blood. They are probably lucky that they didn't stop. So.F%#$ing.Angry.


I'm presuming you had dismounted the bike to cross the ped crossing as required by the road rules?!

Or maybe your state didnt adopt that rule?

So what's it like to be perfect, InTheWoods? I'm curious about that :?: .

I think it's quite reasonable for cyclists to sometimes use pedestrian crossings, particularly if they're switching from a shared path to a road, which is a transition particularly prone to risk.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby InTheWoods » Sat May 11, 2013 12:59 pm

VRE wrote:So what's it like to be perfect, InTheWoods? I'm curious about that :?: .

I think it's quite reasonable for cyclists to sometimes use pedestrian crossings, particularly if they're switching from a shared path to a road, which is a transition particularly prone to risk.


Those are your words not mine...

Yes cyclists can use pedestrian crossings but they are required legally to dismount first. I usually ride across if its not busy with pedestrians and there's lots of room, so I don't know where your claim of perfection comes from.

I only pointed it out because Ross was having a go at the motorists for breaking the road rules, when he wasn't obeying them either - in fact the motorists were somewhat right. You can't just ride out onto a pedestrian crossing and then complain when cars don't stop for you, when you shouldn't be riding there in the first place. If he dismounted, then he can complain all he likes if they don't allow him to cross. Otherwise, don't complain about it its just hypocritical.

[I am assuming that Ross's state has the equivalent of rule 248]
248 No riding across a road on a crossing
(1) The rider of a bicycle must not ride across a road, or a part of
a road, on a children’s crossing or a pedestrian crossing.
Maximum penalty—20 penalty units.
(2) The rider of a bicycle must not ride across a road, or a part of
a road, on a marked foot crossing, unless there are bicycle
crossing lights at the crossing showing a green bicycle
crossing light.
Last edited by Mulger bill on Sat May 11, 2013 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby VRE » Sat May 11, 2013 2:22 pm

I said sometimes it's quite reasonable for a cyclist to use a pedestrian crossing, because it's the safer option. Anyone who claims he/she's never broken a road rule in the interests of his/her own safety is a hypocrite.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby trailgumby » Sat May 11, 2013 2:26 pm

Settle down, children. Let's play nice.

If you must duel, take it off-forum. I'd suggest underarms at 40 paces.

Anyone need a second?
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby citywomble » Sat May 11, 2013 3:29 pm

This is actually kinda funny.

The dumb cyclists and peds thread has twizzle in the role of the ute driver, considering the cyclist crossing as dumb, which she was. While Ross considers the motorist (and hence poor twizzle) as a moron.

They need to put back the barriers that force cyclists to slow to 5kph or dismount. I nearly T-boned a cyclist on a pedestrian crossing a few weeks back when I was riding on a road, she just assumed I was going to give way to a bicycle and I assumed she knew she didn't have right-of-way.


Guys, you are both vehicles and Ross, you cannot ride across a pedestrian crossing - thats why you pee'd off the motorists.
However, Twizzle, it's not wise to assume cyclists are not wrongly thinking they are in the right, just like Ross! Given that you are required to give way to pedestrians you are liable for some criticism, if not blame, should you strike said cyclist on the crossing.

The reason why cyclists are not allowed to ride on a pedestrian crossing is that they arrive there much faster than peds can and are not on the driver give way radar. Once they are on it, however, it's very difficult to argue why you hit one, and would not have hit a pedestrian in the same place, so I would always cede right of way as if they were a ped. Bit similar to giving way to a red light jumper really. Two wrongs ain't gonna make a right.

That said, Ross you need to brush up on the law if you are going to throw things and words at people. How about acting like a cycling ambassador, not Attila the Hun?
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby KonaCommuter » Sat May 11, 2013 3:38 pm

Easy Smug points at this crossing :lol:


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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby queequeg » Sat May 11, 2013 3:41 pm

VRE wrote:I said sometimes it's quite reasonable for a cyclist to use a pedestrian crossing, because it's the safer option. Anyone who claims he/she's never broken a road rule in the interests of his/her own safety is a hypocrite.


How is a motorist supposed to know which crossings are legal for cyclists and which aren't? If the crossing has a bike lantern then you can ride across it, but motorists can't see the lanterns so how would they know if it shows a bike or not?

I never dismount for crossings. It is a daft law, especially when you consider the only difference between legal and not legal is the presence of a little light. There is no different line marking on the road, or any different treatment of the approaches, so I have no idea what makes one crossing ok and the other not.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby duncanm » Sat May 11, 2013 4:13 pm

Regarding the whole crossing scene and motorists pushing through intersections and blocking ped x-ings, I'm quite enjoying one particular intersection on the commute home at the moment.

MM's are always trying to push through the intersection when the traffic is stopped and there's no space on the other side. They end up parked on the signalled pedestrian crossing. Its very entertaining when they get there and have to shade themselves from my super bright front flasher shining straight into their passenger window at eye level... I might possibly point it in the right spot now and then to remind them they shouldn't be there.

I can't work out why they do it there - this intersection has no other entering traffic, so they can miss a whole cycle and not have any more cars get in front of them.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby citywomble » Sat May 11, 2013 4:28 pm

Firstly:
How is a motorist supposed to know which crossings are legal for cyclists and which aren't? If the crossing has a bike lantern then you can ride across it, but motorists can't see the lanterns so how would they know if it shows a bike or not?


The motorist doesn't need to know because the traffic lights do! All users, cars, bikes and peds are supposed to follow the lights. When there is a bicycle crossing phase allowed then the timing of the lights may be adjusted to suit.

Different types of crossing:
> Signalised crossing with bike lantern - may cross while riding on green or continue crossing flashing red.

> Signalised crossing with only ped lantern - required to dismount and walk as ped, then as above.

> Marked pedestrian crossing (white bands) - required to dismount and walk as ped, vehicles to give way (but don't bet your life on it)

> Facilitated crossing (just pram ramps median breaks etc). Peds have right of way over all turning cars if at an intersection. Cyclists have no rights and are vehicles entering and leaving the road (same as from a drive or crossover)

It is illegal to cross the road at the first three, except as stated, however, jaywalking only exists within 20m of the first three. Go more that 20m away and you can all (peds and cyclists) cross as the last case.

Remember:

Cyclists have no rights and are vehicles entering and leaving the road (same as from a drive or crossover)
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Mulger bill » Sat May 11, 2013 4:51 pm

trailgumby wrote:Settle down, children. Let's play nice.

If you must duel, take it off-forum. I'd suggest underarms at 40 paces.

Anyone need a second?


Agreed to a seriously high number.

Except, this magic hemlet I'm wearing lets me say it in yellow...

For those unaware of the protocol, moderators use yellow and red when acting officially instead of the black that denotes their usual ramblings.
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby birdbrain » Sat May 11, 2013 5:16 pm

Came across this today - it's taken from Brooklyn in the states. One of the worst incidents I've seen. Not only does the driver try and swipe the cyclist several times, but he starts threatening and using mates of his to intimidate the cyclist


Thugs, hoods, standover merchants. Don't care about race, colour or creed or hairstyle, they were nasty individuals and there was no guarantee that they wer'nt carrying something under those coats. I would have been pretty intimidated if I was the rider. There are laws in the US about deprivation of liberty especially using intimidation and the threat of force and that example is a classic.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby trailgumby » Sat May 11, 2013 5:20 pm

Enjoy

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Bah77 » Sat May 11, 2013 5:31 pm

birdbrain wrote: they were nasty individuals and there was no guarantee that they wer'nt carrying something under those coats.
You could see the gun under the coat of one of the guys with walkie talkies, this was one of the people that the driver called for at the start of the video. They're a kind of private police force (with no actual power afaik)
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