Moron Motorists #3

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mikesbytes
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:36 pm

Some pretty good points on the horse truck pass. Perhaps it would make good news article "Police consider a horses life more important than a human's life - don't fine dangerous driver"
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Cheesewheel » Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:03 pm

mikesbytes wrote:Some pretty good points on the horse truck pass. Perhaps it would make good news article "Police consider a horses life more important than a human's life - don't fine dangerous driver"

I agree.

If bianchi is comfortable with risking the potential of being a posterboy for MM online ire (ie, has made appropriate measures/considerations to ensure his digital footprint is sufficiently small enough to not upset any real life- ie professional/workplace - dealings), I think it would be a good move to take it to the media. The brief points made by several posters should provide a good framework for staying on message.

In this age (for better or worse), social/public media is the final limb of justice. More than once, police have "reopened investigations" only after attracting a bit of heat on the public front. Make sure the plod who is handling your complaints gets a special mention, since that is essentially where the standard justice system is failing you. It seems pretty obvious to me that the only point he is prepared to investigate a claim is the point where a cyclist gets hit.

It seems you have got nothing to lose since your local plod is already functioning on the level of 0% co-operation. Besides, whats the point of spending about a grand on cameras if they can only ultimately act as resources for the coroner due to this idiot in the police force refusing to lift his game?

Throw that stinking pile of "not in the public interest" he served you back in his face.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Cheesewheel » Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:22 pm

BianchiCam wrote:
Arbuckle23 wrote:Surely the Police can't ignore that one ?



You saw the truck response.

If you are convinced that the plod is a POS in wolf's clothing (and are a bit shy of launching into a full media assault), try forwarding your footage and experiences to a cycle advocacy group who have a media presence.

Cycle weekly seems to periodically run stories from cyclists with footage of ridiculous motorists (even though it is a uk outfit ... maybe there is a better option closer to home).

Mike's suggestion of a title might perk their interests despite the continental distance.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Scott_C » Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:31 pm

BianchiCam wrote:Due to the fact that the driver was driving under the speed limit, was aware of your presence there and believed they had given you enough space with an oncoming vehicle the driver is eligible for an Adult caution. I have also given the driver an education into new legislation regarding cyclists and highlighted to them that a driver is allowed to pass over double white lines where safe to do so.


I would simply respond "where in Rule 126 does it say that driving under the speed limit is sufficient to provide a safe stopping distance?" And furthermore ask the cop and his OIC if they would be happy with the drivers' response if it was the officer stood on the road assisting a vehicle who had broken down in the same position the bicycle was in when the truck driver went through the rear quarter of the vehicle at 50kph because he was travelling too fast to safely stop within his sighting distance.

There are only 2 possible scenarios here, either the truck was going too fast to match speeds with the bicycle and therefore has broken 126 or they were in compliance with 126 and made a deliberate decision to overtake under conditions that made a safe pass impossible and have made a deliberate choice to violate 144A. I would follow up the dismissed complaint about violating 144A with a separate complaint of violating 126 as already admitted by the driver.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby BianchiCam » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:01 am

trailgumby wrote:F*** me, that was close. :shock: Mere inches off your mirror, judging by the rear facing bar cam.

That car never left the lane. You were right on the paint, it appears.

How wide is the lane, how wide is the car, and what is the speed limit?


This has gone to a different station. Not Beerwah. So will see.
I believe it is an 80kmh zone.
Measurements? Dont think there is much need but the wind off the wingmirror was pretty focused on my elbow.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby BianchiCam » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:06 am

I have a meeting set for the educational side of things and also have the ball rolling in regards to 'professional' matters.
Seems the last resort for police is to pull out 'the manual' when bullsheet non law 'opinions' are used to try and dissuade you.
Never have i been asked, "would you like to proceed with an infringement"

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jasonc » Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:35 am

BianchiCam wrote:Never have i been asked, "would you like to proceed with an infringement"

I have but when I said i wanted an infringement issued, they tried to talk me out of it
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby uart » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:51 pm

BianchiCam wrote:
trailgumby wrote:F*** me, that was close. :shock: Mere inches off your mirror, judging by the rear facing bar cam.

That car never left the lane. You were right on the paint, it appears.

How wide is the lane, how wide is the car, and what is the speed limit?


This has gone to a different station. Not Beerwah. So will see.
I believe it is an 80kmh zone.
Measurements? Dont think there is much need but the wind off the wingmirror was pretty focused on my elbow.


Yeah that was a absolute shocker! I really hope that the Police take that one seriously!

BTW. I believe that this is the point on the road where it happened, but I don't know the speed limit there.
https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-26.703 ... 312!8i6656

Anyway, it for sure looks like it is over 60 km/hr, the car that shaved you was going fast! So it has to be a least a 1.5m rule there, and that pass looked like it was probably no more than 15 cm. :x

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby trailgumby » Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:25 pm

BianchiCam wrote:Measurements? Dont think there is much need but the wind off the wingmirror was pretty focused on my elbow.

Goes to beyond reasonable doubt. Kind of important for success in prosecuting criminal matters, which this is. Not doing this may in part explain your relatively low success rate?

If you're wanting to use a law that specifies a minimum distance you need to objectively prove the distance (Qld rule 144A, NSW rule 144-1) was not met.

Given the subjectivity of the general "unsafe pass" rule (Qld and NSW Rule 144) and the reluctance of the plod to prosecute on it, I think it is easier to get a minimum distance infringement across the line especially as the evidence (paint markings, lane width, vehicle width, bike width) seems to be so strong.

Yes it's a pain to go back and do a site visit with a tape measure, but not much more pain than you've already invested

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Ross » Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:50 pm

Went on a ~300km road trip in the car today and was saddened but not totally surprised by the number of MM I saw. Especially after reading about all the fatal crashes that have occured (so far...) over the Christmas period. A couple of examples below.

FIrst off I was driving along a ruralish highway (one lane each way) when I saw a cyclist riding the other way. He was over to the left as far as he could (narrow/bumpy/potholed shoulder) and there was a car behind him that wanted to get past (he wasn't the issue). There was a Ford Territory in front of me and a truck in front of him. The truck moved over to the left onto the shoulder to give the oncoming car room to pass the cyclist, as I did as well, but Mr I'm Too Important/Ignorant in his Ford Territory didn't move a millimetre. Not a big drama, just inconsiderate.

Second one was MM at the servo filling up with fuel. I had to wait behind him because all the other bowsers were occupied. As he was filling up he pulls out his mobile phone and starts checking email/instatwitface. His phone is literally centimetres away from the open fuel tank and the bowser nozzle. Fark. Hope he doesn't blow us all up. He finally finishes and instead of courteously moving his car to the vacant parking spot in front of the shop he leaves it next to the pump and wanders inside to pay. A few minutes later he saunters out showing no sign of haste and gets back in his car and instead of driving off he looks to be playing with his phone again. Another couple of minutes go past and he decides he's finished with the phone and starts (slowly) to drive off. Times like this I wished I had a big Land Bruiser or Mack truck with a large steel bull bar so I could push him out of the way.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jasonc » Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:15 pm

Saw you on TV tonight bianchicam - ch7 Brisbane.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby DavidS » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:02 pm

Cheesewheel wrote:There is practically zero scope for justifying breaking any other cut and dry traffic regulation (eg, speeding, drinking red light etc) .... let alone on the basis of the claimants hearsay of a historical incident .... for instance if the truck driver blew through a red light and tried to talk his way out of it on by telling a story about how he came to a stop 6 months ago and broke a horses leg yada yada it would just be so much hot air, a traffic fine, and a boss that would question whether he wants this fool behind the wheel.

The whole point of the minimum passing distance was to standardize it to cut short the legal circus of establishing intention (ie, if the driver thought it was safe before he initiated the manoeuvre, thats ok, nevermind the maths). Imagine the overtime legal professionals would have if speeding, drink driving, running red light offenses could be challenged by historical hearsay .... in all these other cases, all they want to know is were you going faster than the speed limit ... was your blood alcohol level over the limit .... did your car go through the red light (interestingly, even if you roll through a red light to clear the lane for an ambulance with sirens blaring, you can still get pinged .... they are that much of a stickler for details) ... yet suddenly in the case of minimum passing of a cyclist there seems to be a bevy of unwritten clauses to avoid a fine.


Hmm, just speculating here, but, given that the one metre passing distance law is "cut and dry", after all, a metre is a metre, surely this is now a precedent for any other cut and dry law?

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Cheesewheel » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:59 am

jasonc wrote:Saw you on TV tonight bianchicam - ch7 Brisbane.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/video/watch/3 ... eo-online/
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Ross » Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:26 am

The man suspected of causing a south coast crash that killed himself, a Sydney couple and left two sisters fighting for their lives was driving home from a methadone clinic.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/nsw/tri ... 0b1a0.html

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby antigee » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:49 am

Ross wrote:The man suspected of causing a south coast crash that killed himself, a Sydney couple and left two sisters fighting for their lives was driving home from a methadone clinic.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/nsw/tri ... 0b1a0.html


also a serial traffic offender having served jail time for driving without a license and had only recently regained his license:

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/ ... 765daa84aa

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby antigee » Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:07 am

BianchiCam wrote:Trucks seem to be a common problem for me.
Vic 2016
As you may remember. This 'gentleman' ran me off the road.
He also recieved a fine for 'crossing solid lines' which is about as serious as you can get (sarcasm)


Full forward to Qld 2017. The state with the 'Rule'


Cut and dried infringement?
Well according to the legislation you would think so.
Not when Beerwah Police are involved. Not the first time I have had such 'interesting' reasons why a caution is warranted.
This off to complaints (again) where they will find the officer acted 'professionally (again) and the driver will be off scott free (again)

Thank you for your patience with this matter, I have now concluded the investigation and spoken with my OIC about the incident. My OIC and I have both agreed action needs to be taken and the most appropriate action in this case is an Adult Caution which will be recorded against the driver of the truck on our system.



The driver was very apologetic and wished for me to pass this on to you, at the time the driver of the truck had 7 racehorses on board returning home from a show. These horses are valued at up to $450’000. The driver has recently had a traffic incident where through no fault of their own had to heavily brake and swerve to avoid an accident which occurred in front of them, this resulted in a horse falling in the rear of the truck and subsequently being destroyed.


Your matter was reviewed by myself and my OIC as well as the truck driver, I saw in your initial letter you mention no traffic coming the other way however after re-watching the footage a small black hatch can be seen passing just seconds before hand making it very difficult to allow further space between you and the truck.


Due to the fact that the driver was driving under the speed limit, was aware of your presence there and believed they had given you enough space with an oncoming vehicle the driver is eligible for an Adult caution. I have also given the driver an education into new legislation regarding cyclists and highlighted to them that a driver is allowed to pass over double white lines where safe to do so.


Unfortunately that section of road became very narrow, Connection Road is notorious for accidents and is one of the more dangerous sections of road in our division. While I’m aware you have every right as a cyclist to use any road way I would advise caution using this particular road, we as police do not want to see any persons injured in our division.


I hope you are satisfied with this outcome, feel free to contact me if you need to discuss the matter further, the report is now finalised and I have closed this matter.

ps. I have 'contacted' him alright but for some reason I do not get a reply. How odd.


Satisfied?
Would you be?
Discuss.


as pointed out by others lots of questionable actions resulting from questionable attitude to road safety for vulnerable users:

.....the driver claimed others bad driving had previously caused him problems controlling his vehicle - well that's how i read it and it tells me that the driver has a problem - can't accept he hasn't got the skills or attitude to drive a large truck safely

....so the close pass was justified as there was actually a vehicle coming the other way - so it was poor judgement by the truck driver

....was under the speed limit - so what? run a red light or stop line under the speed limit and that doesn't mean no offence occurred

and
Unfortunately that section of road became very narrow, Connection Road is notorious for accidents and is one of the more dangerous sections of road in our division. While I’m aware you have every right as a cyclist to use any road way I would advise caution using this particular road, we as police do not want to see any persons injured in our division.


....but wouldn't charge the truck driver and put out a press release advising other drivers that bad driving was being clamped down on and to go back to their statement
..... education into new legislation regarding cyclists and highlighted to them that a driver is allowed to pass over double white lines where safe to do so.


.... missed opportunity and appalling attitude...upholding some of societies lowest standards not the law as intended to protect people
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby queequeg » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:03 pm

BianchiCam wrote:
trailgumby wrote:F*** me, that was close. :shock: Mere inches off your mirror, judging by the rear facing bar cam.

That car never left the lane. You were right on the paint, it appears.

How wide is the lane, how wide is the car, and what is the speed limit?


This has gone to a different station. Not Beerwah. So will see.
I believe it is an 80kmh zone.
Measurements? Dont think there is much need but the wind off the wingmirror was pretty focused on my elbow.


Saw the Ch7 video....geez, the comments attracted the bogans very quickly. Apparently this wouldn't have happened if you weren't riding 3 wide and paid rego.

Anyway, not sure how the police could say with a straight face that they investigate these matters.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby hamishm » Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:21 pm

Ross wrote:Second one was MM at the servo filling up with fuel. I had to wait behind him because all the other bowsers were occupied. As he was filling up he pulls out his mobile phone and starts checking email/instatwitface. His phone is literally centimetres away from the open fuel tank and the bowser nozzle. Fark. Hope he doesn't blow us all up. He finally finishes and instead of courteously moving his car to the vacant parking spot in front of the shop he leaves it next to the pump and wanders inside to pay. A few minutes later he saunters out showing no sign of haste and gets back in his car and instead of driving off he looks to be playing with his phone again.

Annoying as this is, a mobile phone never caused a refueling accident, and some service stations (here in Victoria) actually have signs up saying not to move your vehicle. It's just not standard practice around here.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby trailgumby » Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:26 pm

BianchiCam wrote:This has gone to a different station. Not Beerwah. So will see.

I see what you did there. Well played :lol:

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby trailgumby » Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:28 pm

queequeg wrote:Anyway, not sure how the police could say with a straight face that they investigate these matters.

Standard police poker face. They gets lots of practice. Professionally honed.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Biffidus » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:15 pm

fishwop wrote:SMH/Perth Today 23/12/17
'Riding for his life': Sydney cyclist run off remote WA road...

If this gentleman had been running cameras on his bike, the truck driver could have been identified and put off the road. Instead he's still out there risking all our lives.


That's some mighty fine victim blaming right there.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Bunged Knee » Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:33 pm

Still not listening of the ongoing campaigns of "Don`t drink and drive".

https://au.news.yahoo.com/qld/a/38439077/queensland-driver-blows-almost-6-times-over-limit/

`Who`s going to look after us`: Kids ask as drink-driving mum arrested.

A Toowoomba mother has been caught allegedly driving while almost six times over the alcohol limit while on a late-night pizza run.
Body-worn camera footage of the woman's arrest shows her struggling against police, while one of her children asks "who's going to look after us?"

The 37-year-old woman was charged with driving while under the influence of alcohol and driving without a licence after allegedly recording a blood alcohol reading of 0.286 per cent on Thursday night.

She was also charged with two counts of assault or obstruct police after lashing out at the officers who found her behind the wheel of her utility.

The slurring woman struggles to put the vehicle in gear to stop it rolling and then tells police she hasn't had a drink in 12 hours.
She later told police she had been out buying a pizza.

:shock: :roll: :?:
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby BianchiCam » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:20 pm

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 3416678768

The name of the officer who was interviewed. Dayrl Johnson's name appears at the very bottom of a letter i recieved a while back after i disputed tge police findings of another shave with oncoming.
The same letter that found officers acted professionally (giving the 'did the best he could, avoided a head on') excuses. Apparently that is ok for qld police.
Listen to what he says in the interview when questioned if the police are doing enough.
I wont tell you but it is food for thought and basically undermines the whole premise of the rule.

Oh well. This is just the first 'salvo' i have.
A number of cases submitted. And in none of them have the police said 'that is not inside 1.5m in any of them. They have never disputed my evidence and i try to be as pedantic as possible.
None have been refuted.
All except one have been met with a plethora of excuses. None of which have a mention in the legislation.

Anyone know a good lawyer?
After next week. I may need one.
Watch this space.
I am not one to get upset about things I can do nothing about.
But i can do something about this.
Never ask, never get.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby InTheWoods » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:24 pm

Keep up the good work BianchiCam!

Maybe its time for all of us to hit QPS with FOIs for all our submissions...

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Ross » Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:11 pm

Mother allegedly on Meth when Adelaide Hills car crash kills young son

http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia ... ar-BBHv0tv

A mother involved in an Adelaide Hills car crash that killed her young son last month and injured two other children allegedly had methamphetamine in her system at the time.

The 34-year-old Callington woman was driving home from Victor Harbor after a family holiday when the silver station wagon hit a tree on Brookman Road at Kuitpo, near Meadows.

The crash happened on November 13 about 6:30am.

The woman's seven-year-old boy died at the scene, while his twin brother and two-year-old sister were taken to hospital along with their mother.

Today, police said the woman had since been arrested.

She has been charged with causing injury by dangerous driving and aggravated death by dangerous driving.

Police said the charge was aggravated because the woman had methamphetamine in her system when the crash happened.

The woman will appear in the Mount Barker Magistrates Court in March.

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