Moron Motorists #3

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pj
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby pj » Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:32 pm

find_bruce wrote:PJ you do realise that is pretty much how a significant part of our population is treated if they report a particular crime


Yes it's not good is it :(

solmanic
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby solmanic » Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:25 pm

pj wrote:Check this out, we can only dream.......

"We have launched a web portal for people to report traffic offences and upload evidence"


In Queensland at least we already sort of have this...
https://www.police.qld.gov.au/apps/reports/hoonOnline

I report all incidents through this website and have 100% response rate from QPS and about half have lead to tickets. I have even once emailed our local cop and he asked me to use the hoon online portal as a preference since it forced the complaint into the system and reduced his paperwork.

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biker jk
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby biker jk » Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:27 pm

Two charges of manslaughter against the driver who killed a driver and passenger. Has there ever been a manslaughter charge against a driver killing a cyclist?

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-30/man-charged-over-death-of-pregnant-woman-with-twins/10322376

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Cheesewheel
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Cheesewheel » Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:26 pm

solmanic wrote:
pj wrote:Check this out, we can only dream.......

"We have launched a web portal for people to report traffic offences and upload evidence"


In Queensland at least we already sort of have this...
https://www.police.qld.gov.au/apps/reports/hoonOnline

I report all incidents through this website and have 100% response rate from QPS and about half have lead to tickets. I have even once emailed our local cop and he asked me to use the hoon online portal as a preference since it forced the complaint into the system and reduced his paperwork.

It would be good to hear a basic run down on what, iyho, distinguished actionable reports (one's that resulted in issuing fines etc) from those that weren't. I take it you submitted video evidence with all your reports?
Go!Run!GAH!

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby uart » Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:46 pm

biker jk wrote:Has there ever been a manslaughter charge against a driver killing a cyclist?

Curiously, even in several cases I know of where motorists have deliberately run down and killed cyclists (aka murdered them), the charges have only been dangerous driving, and jail terms as little as 11 month. :(

The law sees victims like the two women killed in that terrible accident as innocent victims (and don't get me wrong I am very glad that they threw the book at that moron driver), but unfortunately the law seems to see cyclists as deserving whatever they get. Well TBH I don't know that for sure, but it's the only way that I can explain the discrepancies in charging and sentencing that I see.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby AdelaidePeter » Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:23 am

uart wrote:
biker jk wrote:Has there ever been a manslaughter charge against a driver killing a cyclist?

Curiously, even in several cases I know of where motorists have deliberately run down and killed cyclists (aka murdered them), the charges have only been dangerous driving, and jail terms as little as 11 month. :(


It does happen...

Driver (Jonwa Rowe) charged with murder after cyclist (Stephen O'Grady) hit and killed by car https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/dri ... 4z6fw.html

Joanne Marie McCauley was charged with murder, though it took an inquest 5 years later (personally I think the initial inaction was more due to racism, because the victim was Chinese, rather than anti-cyclist sentiment). https://www.frasercoastchronicle.com.au ... d/3255496/

Ben Smith jailed for manslaughter of Steve Jarvie. https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/ben ... x3bhd.html

solmanic
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby solmanic » Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:30 pm

Cheesewheel wrote:It would be good to hear a basic run down on what, iyho, distinguished actionable reports (one's that resulted in issuing fines etc) from those that weren't. I take it you submitted video evidence with all your reports?


Well, firstly it helps that I am in a small town and we all know the local cops.
Secondly, the reports that weren't followed up were ones that were inconclusive or I was too lazy to submit a measured still image.

The ones that were followed up were all with video or still images uploaded to the Hoon online portal. If the pass was not obviously too close I would provide a still image with markers indicating the centreline of the bike to the wheel of the vehicle and increments based on the width of the road fog line. This meant i had a fixed, known distance in the shot and clear straight line measurement to the wheel of the vehicle. Usually this would clearly show less than the required passing distance but I would then include the known width from centreline to handlebar/elbow and remind them that there were also mirrors or other protrusions from the vehicle. I think over the past four years, three were ticketed and two were cautioned. I was given the option of pushing for a ticket but agreed a caution was fair since the officer reported that the motorists were deeply apologetic (one of them was cyclist himself and was mortified that he'd done a close pass).

I also follow what I consider to be a fair & reasonable reporting rationale. If it's and a private vehicle and not an extremely close pass and I have no reason to suspect it was intentional (eg they moved over somewhat), I give them the benefit of doubt. If it's a professional driver (truck, taxi etc) I ALWAYS report them since they should know better and be held to a higher standard.

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biker jk
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby biker jk » Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:03 pm

AdelaidePeter wrote:
uart wrote:
biker jk wrote:Has there ever been a manslaughter charge against a driver killing a cyclist?

Curiously, even in several cases I know of where motorists have deliberately run down and killed cyclists (aka murdered them), the charges have only been dangerous driving, and jail terms as little as 11 month. :(


It does happen...

Driver (Jonwa Rowe) charged with murder after cyclist (Stephen O'Grady) hit and killed by car https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/dri ... 4z6fw.html

Joanne Marie McCauley was charged with murder, though it took an inquest 5 years later (personally I think the initial inaction was more due to racism, because the victim was Chinese, rather than anti-cyclist sentiment). https://www.frasercoastchronicle.com.au ... d/3255496/

Ben Smith jailed for manslaughter of Steve Jarvie. https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/ben ... x3bhd.html


My question was about a manslaughter charge against a motorist for killing a cyclist in the case of an "accident" like the one I linked. The examples you gave were murder charges so intent was evident.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jaseyjase » Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:56 pm

This mornings conversation

MM: " hey dip 5h1t, why dont you use the bike path "
Me: " go learn the road rules "

There may have been a few added profanities from me

Location of our interaction and the path he was referring to

https://www.google.com/maps/@-31.8634083,115.8552092,3a,60y,152.45h,80.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9UOXgrA1S_WhK50bt3YkiA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I was in the left lane heading straight, he was turning left onto the freeway onramp, the bike path he was referring to turns left and joins on to a freeway to another direction.

sigh.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby mikesbytes » Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:24 pm

jaseyjase wrote:This mornings conversation

MM: " hey dip 5h1t, why dont you use the bike path "
Me: " go learn the road rules "

There may have been a few added profanities from me

Location of our interaction and the path he was referring to

https://www.google.com/maps/@-31.8634083,115.8552092,3a,60y,152.45h,80.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9UOXgrA1S_WhK50bt3YkiA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I was in the left lane heading straight, he was turning left onto the freeway onramp, the bike path he was referring to turns left and joins on to a freeway to another direction.

sigh.
Is that the bloke who owns the road?
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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jaseyjase
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jaseyjase » Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:53 am

mikesbytes wrote:Is that the bloke who owns the road?


ha, well you know, he does pay rego :roll:

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby antigee » Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:14 pm

jaseyjase wrote:This mornings conversation

MM: " hey dip 5h1t, why dont you use the bike path "........................................


...................I was in the left lane heading straight, he was turning left onto the freeway onramp, the bike path he was referring to turns left and joins on to a freeway to another direction.

sigh.


probably the only time I've deliberately dented a car bonnet with my fist was in the early eighties at a roundabout - I'm turning right and in lane and a car cuts across from my left nearly collecting me on the bonnet - we end up stationary with me not quite bouncing off the car wing and his response "use the cycle path"...that would be the one that takes you under the roundabout and then left to a shopping centre? :(

....car get in and drive to where you want to go
cycle - check map for safe route, get bemused trying to find it, take massive detours to ensure you get there safely :shock:

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jaseyjase
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jaseyjase » Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:35 am

Not so much moron, but having a non functioning side blinker dosnt help, awkward situation all round.

This section is the only regular part of my route where i have my own 'lane' that intersects at lights, so im usually extra careful watching out for people turning left.

Traffic is moving so im scanning for indicators, once next to the retro ambo im a little nervous as its a pretty big blind spot for him, but ive got an eye on his side blinker. My spider senses go off when i notice he starts to slow down, but by then it was a split second decision to either floor it or jam the brakes, taking into account his speed, i did the former.

You'll notice from the rear camera the indicator was on when the ambo turned. So he indicated pretty late as i didnt see it when i was coming up behind him, and the side ones were definitely not working.

Not an ideal situation, glad to get out of that one safely.


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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby hunch » Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:34 am

jaseyjase wrote:You'll notice from the rear camera the indicator was on when the ambo turned. So he indicated pretty late as i didnt see it when i was coming up behind him, and the side ones were definitely not working.


You'd be waiting a fair while for those F100 side indicators to come on - they are reflectors - or at least they were over on this side of the island back in the day. I think around the early 70s when the ADRs came in, Ford ambulances got a side cutout on the blinkers...that you might just spot at the last second!

Preachy I know, I'd practice a more defensive riding style. Approaching all intersections where the traffic is flowing, I'll hold back or brake and pull back to avoid being up the inside of anything.

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jaseyjase
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jaseyjase » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:45 am

hunch wrote:Preachy I know, I'd practice a more defensive riding style. Approaching all intersections where the traffic is flowing, I'll hold back or brake and pull back to avoid being up the inside of anything.


yeah, id probably have that one back if i could. Either get in front or well behind and out of his blind spot.

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Ross
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Ross » Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:51 am

51 Offences in 45 Minutes (UK)

https://road.cc/content/forum/249395-51 ... 45-minutes

UK West Midlands Police Road Harm Reduction Team had a blitz at a primary school for only 45 minutes and booked 51 drivers for having unsecured children in the car and a range of other offences including no rego, no insurance and no licence. :twisted:

I reckon if police in Australia did the same thing at just about any school anywhere they would come up with similiar results. :roll:


West Midlands Police Road Harm Reduction Team‏ @WMPRHRT

#OpSaferSchools this morning at Nansen Primary with @WashwoodWMP In 45 mins 51 offences of unsecured children prosecuted, 2 no insurance,1 no licence, 5 x dangerously carried passengers, 1 obstruction, 1 leave vehicle in a dangerous position & 3 x no MOT #protectingthevulnerable

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jasonc » Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:33 am

yesterday, i had this:
rear -

front -

same car, same time in april, i had this:

same car, same time in february i had this:

when i submitted the april incident, i referenced the february incident. they said nothing was wrong. this driver will not learn. going to submit, in hope, again
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby ironhanglider » Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:45 pm

What amazes me is that it seems pretty clear from jasonc's "friend"'s form is that this driver is clearly an accident on the way to the scene. You'd think that his insurer (assuming he has one) would take an interest in consistently observed behaviour that is likely to result in them having to make a payout.

We see ads on TV for insurance companies that say that if you are less of an insurance risk that you will enjoy lower premiums. It would be nice if observed poor behaviour resulted in higher premiums, before a collision occurs in order to offset the costs to everyone else.

Cheers,

Cameron
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby DrShifty » Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:33 pm

Riding through Kotara last week I stopped where the bike lane comes to a crossing with lights. The lights do a complex set of permissions for left and right turns etc and can take quite a while.

As I was waiting for my green a boy pedals to a stop and trackstands on the white line. He holds the bike rock steady the whole time he's got the red light. He was probably 13 or 14 and his skill was impressive. He got the green and pedaled off.

Then a guy in a Navara twin cab ute comes down the same road and turns left in front of me. He's holding a mug in his left hand and there's a tea bag label hanging over the side. If that water is hot enough to brew tea he's in for a scorching if it spills on his thigh.

The irony of the boy with genuine and evident skill as opposed to the driver who thinks he can drive through traffic holding a mug of tea in one hand got to me. I was glad to cross the road and get back onto the bike path away from drivers like that guy.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby tubby74 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:41 pm

Ross wrote:51 Offences in 45 Minutes (UK)

I reckon if police in Australia did the same thing at just about any school anywhere they would come up with similiar results. :roll:


police regularly sit outside my kids school. I've never once seen them do anything. Car pulls in front of them in no stopping zone, nothing, so they can't claim any sort of deterrent value. they are very much part of the problem.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Thoglette » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:40 pm

jasonc wrote:when i submitted the april incident, i referenced the february incident. they said nothing was wrong. this driver will not learn. going to submit, in hope, again

While the guy is clearly an accident waiting to happen, it'd be hard to make a case out of any of that footage
Unless you go back on to that bit of road and measure the distance at critical moments.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jasonc » Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:05 pm

Thoglette wrote:
jasonc wrote:when i submitted the april incident, i referenced the february incident. they said nothing was wrong. this driver will not learn. going to submit, in hope, again

While the guy is clearly an accident waiting to happen, it'd be hard to make a case out of any of that footage
Unless you go back on to that bit of road and measure the distance at critical moments.

The pass last Friday, even though not the closest, shows they don't care. I was overtaking a cyclist. Note in the rear video where the mirror I before I move left. This driver has previously given me the finger
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Thoglette » Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:03 am

jasonc wrote:, shows they don't care.

Agreed. But that's not an offence. Giving the finger is not an offence (under the traffic regs). Passing with less than 1m is an offence. That's what you need to show and beyond reasonable doubt. Then, and only then, Mr Plod might put his donuts down.
Stop handing them the stick! - Dave Moulton
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Cheesewheel » Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:10 pm

Just uploaded my first report to the Qld hoon hotline. Nothing too serious, just a souped up hoon car (complete with hoonettes, the rarified subspecies of boganettes, in the passenger seat) doing burn outs at the traffic lights as it takes off in the middle of the main drag at Surfers Paradise. I didn't have any images or video to upload, but I figured there are a million security cameras all over. I just placed the form online to see if the qpc have enough get up and go to scroll through security footage they must already have access to. if you can provide the rego, description, precise time and traffic light location one would think it would be reasonably easy to verify. Even though I have no prior experience, I'm not particularly hopeful of any sort of serious follow through beyond maybe mere phone call or visit to provide an opportunity for yhe driver to strenuously deny they had any involvement.
Go!Run!GAH!

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find_bruce
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby find_bruce » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:00 pm

That would be the driver pulling out in front of a truck - a fire truck, complete with lights & sirens & it turns out extra special loud air horns just for morons

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