Moron Motorists #3

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Summernight » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:57 am

jules21 wrote:
human909 wrote:
Xplora wrote:BOught a cam yet Human??? :shock:


Nah, no desire really. I am grateful to others use cams, unfortunately things like this need to be aired for it to be taken seriously.

some people give, and some people take. you're a taker human! the purpose of having a camera is to share the hilarity/insanity of these people with the rest of us. that would have been excellent footage - an opportunity missed. you could have put that guy on A Current Affair (ch.7 keeps running some of my footage).


They do? :shock:
Which footage and how much do you get every time your footage is played? 8)
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by BNA » Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:33 am

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby zero » Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:33 am

leighthebee wrote:Whilst tailwinds riding is within the letter of the law, it does also view as pretty discourteous to those that don't ride and understand why he's riding like he is. We see (and its backed up by his thoughts on the issue) a rider claiming the lane. The moron see's someone who's just undercut him at the intersection, then arrogantly block him from making any attempt to get past, then when confronted about it tells you to f@&k off.



Its discourteous to overtake if you aren't actually faster than the vehicle in front.

The speed pad made it impossible to be in front of the bicycle at a safe distance from the turn, therefore the motorist should never have attempted it, and no the cyclist should not be forced out of the motorists way when there is no difference in average speed - it is only by finding out that he isn't in fact faster than the bicycle that he'll ever learn it.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jules21 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:43 am

Summernight wrote:They do? :shock:
Which footage and how much do you get every time your footage is played? 8)

yep, although they do a good job of taking them out of context (e.g. showing me swearing at some moron but not showing the reason why they're a moron). anyway, you can watch some here.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Summernight » Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:24 pm

jules21 wrote:
Summernight wrote:They do? :shock:
Which footage and how much do you get every time your footage is played? 8)

yep, although they do a good job of taking them out of context (e.g. showing me swearing at some moron but not showing the reason why they're a moron). anyway, you can watch some here.


So they've got your YouTube channel bookmarked? :P

Why am I not surprised that they show you swearing at motorists and not the actual incident? Quality journalism right there. :roll:
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby zero » Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:56 pm

human909 wrote:
Xplora wrote:BOught a cam yet Human??? :shock:


Nah, no desire really. I am grateful to others use cams, unfortunately things like this need to be aired for it to be taken seriously.

That was the first time I've ever had a real nutter. Though I have had a couple of other incidents that got my anger and adrenaline going. For some odd reason the incident on Saturday didn't really rattle me or even arc me up. I just found the whole thing a little humorous at the time. Each time I thought it was over. Though I am very mindful and grateful that he kept choosing to try to sort it out with fists rather than a metal bonnet. After the first confrontation though I kept my distance from his car to ensure he didn't change his mind.


That kind of harassment is entirely rider size based though. They won't get out of the car for me.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby vbplease » Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:15 pm

leighthebee wrote:Whilst tailwinds riding is within the letter of the law, it does also view as pretty discourteous to those that don't ride and understand why he's riding like he is. We see (and its backed up by his thoughts on the issue) a rider claiming the lane. The moron see's someone who's just undercut him at the intersection, then arrogantly block him from making any attempt to get past, then when confronted about it tells you to f@&k off.

Kudos! The most sensible post on this thread..

A cyclist that choses to claim a lane soley because their "within their rights to do so" is just as selfish as the motorist that honks because he can't wait, speeds, dangerously overtakes etc etc.

Claiming a lane should be an absolute last resort!! Of the few hundred kilometers of road I regularly cycle around on in Brisbane, I can think of only 1 400m stretch where claiming the lane is essential. Exception being traffic calmers and roundabouts.

If a cyclist can't find a route to work (or on their leisure ride) that can't avoid lane claiming then I doubt they're trying hard enough? Is it because they're in so much of a rush? That's pretty similar to an angry motorists atitude in my opinion..
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Lukeyboy » Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:46 pm

the only time I really claim a lane is if I'm on a backstreet or if there is built up traffic around I'm doing the speed limit or 2kph over the speed limit :P
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Aushiker » Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:46 pm

Its not often but now and then I have a chance to post a positive example of respectful safe driving. This is one such example. My big thanks go out to the Qube Logistics (P&O Transport) driver of truck number P501 who came up behind me on Cockburn Road, Coogee, WA on the morning of Monday June 24, 2013.

Instead of pushing pass and putting me at risk, the driver backed off and waited patiently for an opportunity to pass safely and when he did pass he did so with good clearance. The funny thing about this is that he had to wait about 30 seconds … it really shows how a tiny little bit of patience can go a long way.

I have passed on my thanks to Qube Logistics and I hope this driver is told of my appreciation. We need more the likes of him or her.



Such a contrast to this recent experience on the same road.



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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby London Boy » Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:03 pm

vbplease wrote:Claiming a lane should be an absolute last resort!! Of the few hundred kilometers of road I regularly cycle around on in Brisbane, I can think of only 1 400m stretch where claiming the lane is essential. Exception being traffic calmers and roundabouts.

If a cyclist can't find a route to work (or on their leisure ride) that can't avoid lane claiming then I doubt they're trying hard enough? Is it because they're in so much of a rush? That's pretty similar to an angry motorists atitude in my opinion..

Contrarily, claiming the lane is one of the methods we have to stay safe. It is never be just a last resort, it should be used whenever it is the best way to keep safe.

And going out of one's way simply to avoid having to claim a lane is self-destructive. Keep in mind that cycling takes effort, and minimising effort is not an unreasonable thing to do. Why should we cyclists go out of our way so a motorist is not inconvenienced by a matter of a couple of seconds? Do we want to be second class?
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Aushiker » Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:10 pm

London Boy wrote:Contrarily, claiming the lane is one of the methods we have to stay safe. It is never be just a last resort, it should be used whenever it is the best way to keep safe.

And going out of one's way simply to avoid having to claim a lane is self-destructive. Keep in mind that cycling takes effort, and minimising effort is not an unreasonable thing to do. Why should we cyclists go out of our way so a motorist is not inconvenienced by a matter of a couple of seconds? Do we want to be second class?


Well put.

As to the time ... my video that I just posted of the Qube Logistics highlights once again how little time motorist are so often held-up ... 30 seconds in this case ... four seconds in a recent MGIF incident.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby leighthebee » Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:22 pm

Coolabah wrote:I do not think OP for a moment considers himself an educator of stupid motorists, not sure where that comment came from ! I am pretty sure if I took your advice on how to ride on the roads my life expectancy would be shorter than a fighter pilot in the Battle of Britain.... :(

Just MHO


I used the educator line based on when confronted about riding in the middle of the road, tailwind responds with something along the lines of "I'm perfectly within my rights to ride there"

My point was that anyone who has worked themselves up to that extent is not going to calm down when confronted with their own ignorance.

As for my advice on how to ride. My whole post was generally around being courteous. How is that bad advice. Been riding that way for quite awhile and no dramas so far....We need to share the road, and we are THE most vulnerable. EVERYTHING I do whilst riding revolves around getting off the bike when I choose, not some peanut who'll never have anything other than a bad attitude taking me off it.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby human909 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:27 pm

Some of the differences in opinion here may simply due to the width of roads in each rider's locality. However ANYBODY who makes the claim that people choosing to keep themselves SAFE by claiming a lane are being selfish needs to reexamine their priorities!

I can't think of any other cycling specific road craft that is as beneficial.

Leighthebee, claiming the claim is certainly not conflicting with sharing the road! Your approach HAS gotten numerous cyclists killed.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Howzat » Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:35 pm

jules21 wrote:that would have been excellent footage - an opportunity missed. you could have put that guy on A Current Affair

"Tonight, the cyclist who drove this ordinary motorist to extremes - and wouldn't stop even after being asked to three times..."
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby leighthebee » Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:37 pm

human909 wrote:Yep cyclists should get off the road. :roll:

I was assaulted on Saturday by a driver who though I shouldn't have been in "his" lane. He chased me for several kilometres from Lygon to Nicholson to St George's yelling for me to pull over and face him. It went on for several kilometers because he struggled to catch up with me in the moderate traffic. When he finally did he pulled over 100m ahead and then attempted to push me off my bike. He connected but I stayed upright.

I kept riding and I again lost him in traffic but I did continue on the route rather than deviating to escape. He again chased me down but I was on a bike path so he jump out of his car again. But I ducked down a side street. He then looped around and confronted me for a third time screaming abuse and telling me to pull over and face him. I ducked down a few side streets again and lost him.

It was all a bit of a laugh really as he had little chance of catching me after the first time. But it still shows that there are nutters out there.


I never said cyclists should get off the road. What I'm talking about is picking your battles. When I'm wearing no protection other than a helmet, I avoid annoying someone driving 3 tonnes of metal and plastic who doesn't give a showtime about my life.

As for your confrontation. This is my point. You don't know who your sharing the roads with. Your story is similar to tailwinds. Someone's ignorance being directed at you in a physical altercation. You've done nothing wrong other than being in front of him on a slower mode of transport, regardless of whether your holding him up or not at the time, it is perceived as slower.....

One thing that seemed to really save tailwind was the fact that he had camera and pointed this out to the peanut. He clearly panicked and fled. Some other nutters would escalate from there.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby human909 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:52 pm

Well if you consider you helmet your only protection then you are missing the point. Your best protection is being seen and being aware of what other cars are doing.

The other 99.9999% of my rides I have no such problems. But these dont make it into this thread. Even in these cases the morons didn't display an intention to run a cyclist over.

If you are worry more about the rare maniacs than the much much more common distracted and incompetent drivers then you are doing yourself any favours.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby leighthebee » Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:55 pm

zero wrote:
leighthebee wrote:Whilst tailwinds riding is within the letter of the law, it does also view as pretty discourteous to those that don't ride and understand why he's riding like he is. We see (and its backed up by his thoughts on the issue) a rider claiming the lane. The moron see's someone who's just undercut him at the intersection, then arrogantly block him from making any attempt to get past, then when confronted about it tells you to f@&k off.



Its discourteous to overtake if you aren't actually faster than the vehicle in front.

The speed pad made it impossible to be in front of the bicycle at a safe distance from the turn, therefore the motorist should never have attempted it, and no the cyclist should not be forced out of the motorists way when there is no difference in average speed - it is only by finding out that he isn't in fact faster than the bicycle that he'll ever learn it.


No he won't learn anything. He doesn't care about average speed. He cares about perceived speed. If he had any idea about average speed he wouldn't have confronted tailwind.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby InTheWoods » Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:00 pm

human909 wrote:Some of the differences in opinion here may simply due to the width of roads in each rider's locality.


+100

I'd also add, might be also affected by the type of drivers in that area, the time of day, the driver's experience level with cyclists, the amount of traffic, existence/frequency of red lights, and existence/width of shoulder, amongst other things. There are roads where I am quite happy and safe staying out of motorists way. There are other roads where the safest place is in their way ... where they can see me.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Coolabah » Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:02 pm

leighthebee wrote:
Coolabah wrote:I do not think OP for a moment considers himself an educator of stupid motorists, not sure where that comment came from ! I am pretty sure if I took your advice on how to ride on the roads my life expectancy would be shorter than a fighter pilot in the Battle of Britain.... :(

Just MHO


I used the educator line based on when confronted about riding in the middle of the road, tailwind responds with something along the lines of "I'm perfectly within my rights to ride there"

My point was that anyone who has worked themselves up to that extent is not going to calm down when confronted with their own ignorance.

As for my advice on how to ride. My whole post was generally around being courteous. How is that bad advice. Been riding that way for quite awhile and no dramas so far....We need to share the road, and we are THE most vulnerable. EVERYTHING I do whilst riding revolves around getting off the bike when I choose, not some peanut who'll never have anything other than a bad attitude taking me off it.


Hi leighthebee,
I do sense we are kindred spirits in many ways. I do consider myself a polite & considerate person. My friends consider me somewhat pathologically so ... I will go out of my way to do the right thing by people- gladly give up my seat on public transport, help an old lady home with her shopping ... you name it. Same thing when driving my car - sure , I'll let you in no problem even though you pushed in without indicating & at high speed and nearly dented my car.... no problem

Bigger Problem is , when I first started commuting to work a year or more ago I tried to do the same thing when on my bike . I used up 8 cat lives in the first 2 weeks. Drivers around here are morons. If they "think" there is room to overtake , no matter what , they will ( even whilst in a traffic calming device when their "I think there is room " is WRONG !!)

I learned this pretty quickly : they will not overtake & risk your death if you claim the lane AT THE APPROPRIATE MOMENT . This might involve 5 seconds whilst in a chicane. It might involve 8 seconds whilst in a roundabout. It is NOT discourteous. It is NOT being selfish ( well , strictly speaking I do have a somewhat selfish wish to live out that day at least.... )

I will then "thank" the driver I held up for a few seconds with a wave as they pass. I will also thank drivers that stop for me at intersections.

This is not a manners thing. Riding a bike is safe but car DRIVERS can be dangerous....

There are nutters out there too. I had the worst road rage incident ever a few years ago but was in my car at the time. I would have been dead if I was on my bike , no matter how considerate and polite I might have been.
NONE of these issues we are currently discussing are caused by the cyclist
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby feral grasshopper » Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:07 pm

@Coolabah: YES
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Howzat » Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:14 pm

Coolabah wrote:I learned this pretty quickly : they will not overtake & risk your death if you claim the lane AT THE APPROPRIATE MOMENT . This might involve 5 seconds whilst in a chicane. It might involve 8 seconds whilst in a roundabout. It is NOT discourteous. It is NOT being selfish

+1. I'd go further and point out that claiming the lane like this is in fact a courtesy, as it lets drivers know that it's unsafe to pass at that point.

A lot of drivers are pretty inept at judging when it's safe and when it's not safe to pass a cyclist - as amply demonstrated in this perennially updated thread.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby leighthebee » Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:24 pm

Aushiker wrote:
London Boy wrote:Contrarily, claiming the lane is one of the methods we have to stay safe. It is never be just a last resort, it should be used whenever it is the best way to keep safe.

And going out of one's way simply to avoid having to claim a lane is self-destructive. Keep in mind that cycling takes effort, and minimising effort is not an unreasonable thing to do. Why should we cyclists go out of our way so a motorist is not inconvenienced by a matter of a couple of seconds? Do we want to be second class?


Well put.

As to the time ... my video that I just posted of the Qube Logistics highlights once again how little time motorist are so often held-up ... 30 seconds in this case ... four seconds in a recent MGIF incident.

Andrew


Yep couldn't agree more to all these comments. I read this thread amongst others and given its a cycling forum I take the bias with a grain of understanding. :D

I do feel however that some cyclists push the limits on the road and then use a throw away "it's legal, I'm allowed to."

Sure that may be the case, and most drivers are happy enough with cyclists on the road, but there's a small minority who aren't and won't hesitate to make an example of you. Right or wrong....
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby InTheWoods » Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:27 pm

Here's an example of me claiming the lane this morning. I got the feeling this truck driver wanted me to move over so we could share the lane. Can you see space in this lane for us to share safely? I did hold this driver up, briefly. After changing to the other lane to safely overtake he changed back into my lane.

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Points to note here are that a) he wasn't really held up because long after he overtook I still wasn't far behind and we got stuck in traffic behind one of the many traffic lights along here further down the road, and b) he's not allowed in this lane anyway as its a T2 lane :)

Edit: Correction, there is somebody short hiding in the passenger seat so he is allowed in the lane :)
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby leighthebee » Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:46 pm

Coolabah. Indeed. Agree with everything you say. I'll acknowledge every driver patiently waiting while I pedal my chubby guts up a hill far slower than a car can go.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby leighthebee » Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:57 pm

Howzat wrote:+1. I'd go further and point out that claiming the lane like this is in fact a courtesy, as it lets drivers know that it's unsafe to pass at that point.


I would love to see you explaining this to someone who is foaming at the mouth about you hogging the lane. 8)

I see what your saying but the world just doesn't exist like this. At least not in my world anyway. I claim a lane when necessary but I've never claimed a lane as long as tailwind did, particularly when I know what's behind me...that is one crap road though. A good example of today's crap estate town planning regulations.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby human909 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:16 pm

I don't know why you say that world doesn't exist. You make it exist! It exists wherever I cycle.
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