Moron Motorists #3

open topic, for anything cycling related.

Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Aushiker » Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:59 pm

Received this post on my Facebook page today ...

Dear Andrew, your post has just come to our attention. So firstly on behalf of the management & Staff at Nu Style LIGHTING, we sincerely regret your experience, we can assure you that we have addressed this matter with all our drivers to be more aware of cyclist on the roads in general and not just at roundabout.
While we thank you for the free plug! Its Advertising we can do without via your posts. However in reviewing your posts & blog its clear your agenda is to highlight the cyclist vs. motorist debate! We wish luck with this. However in our company case you clearly had visibility of our phone number on our van as per your video footage shows and believe a phone call would have given us more impact with the specific driver concerned in that particular incident, rather being used for advancing your hidden agenda here . In addition to this any driver not just ours if are caught on your video’s breaking the road rules believing you could be seriously injury or killed you! Then we don’t think that’s too much to ask that you take your complaint with evidence in hand to the police before using it as YouTube post. That’s if you are serious about improving the attitudes of motorist vs. cyclist on our roads. Andrew, once again we regret and are apologetic on your experience with one of drivers and thank you for you bring it to our attention, needless to say we didn't appreciate how you choose to communicated it this matter. NSL Management.


It was in relation to the following video which I posted as part of a blog posting and discussion here (can't find it but) ... It seems that the Nu Style Lightening don't appreciate my posting of the video as part of a discussion on handling such driver behaviour. Suggested responses most welcome.



Andrew
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby MarkG » Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:06 pm

Man up and call them instead of posting videos of them online.

Fair call on their behalf.

They obviously don't know your reputation as bleeding heart with too much spare time on his hands ...
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby chill1995 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:08 pm

Aushiker wrote:Received this post on my Facebook page today ...

Dear Andrew, your post has just come to our attention. So firstly on behalf of the management & Staff at Nu Style LIGHTING, we sincerely regret your experience, we can assure you that we have addressed this matter with all our drivers to be more aware of cyclist on the roads in general and not just at roundabout.
While we thank you for the free plug! Its Advertising we can do without via your posts. However in reviewing your posts & blog its clear your agenda is to highlight the cyclist vs. motorist debate! We wish luck with this. However in our company case you clearly had visibility of our phone number on our van as per your video footage shows and believe a phone call would have given us more impact with the specific driver concerned in that particular incident, rather being used for advancing your hidden agenda here . In addition to this any driver not just ours if are caught on your video’s breaking the road rules believing you could be seriously injury or killed you! Then we don’t think that’s too much to ask that you take your complaint with evidence in hand to the police before using it as YouTube post. That’s if you are serious about improving the attitudes of motorist vs. cyclist on our roads. Andrew, once again we regret and are apologetic on your experience with one of drivers and thank you for you bring it to our attention, needless to say we didn't appreciate how you choose to communicated it this matter. NSL Management.


It was in relation to the following video which I posted as part of a blog posting and discussion here (can't find it but) ... It seems that the Nu Style Lightening don't appreciate my posting of the video as part of a discussion on handling such driver behaviour. Suggested responses most welcome.



Andrew

WT?? you're free to post the video wherever you want, their driver was in the wrong and he should be dealt with appropriately, terrible pr from that business.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jules21 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:30 pm

MarkG wrote:Man up and call them instead of posting videos of them online.

Fair call on their behalf.

They obviously don't know your reputation as bleeding heart with too much spare time on his hands ...

i said the same thing to the police when i got a speed camera fine. they had my number, if my speeding was a problem why can't they just call me and sort it out like reasonable people, instead of sending me letters of demand for payment of ridiculous fines?
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Percrime » Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:02 pm

My response would be short. "Whats hidden about my agenda?"
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby ldrcycles » Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:23 pm

I think they have a point, did you make any contact with them? They can't fix the problem if they don't know about it.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby FuzzyDropbear » Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:51 pm

ldrcycles wrote:I think they have a point, did you make any contact with them? They can't fix the problem if they don't know about it.


Yep, I think they do have a point. If I have issues with drivers and they have a phone number, I always give them a buzz to discuss. Most of the time they're apologetic and weren't aware of how things look from the cyclists perspective (and this is where the video link comes in). Which isn't a defense, but hopefully the next time they'll be a bit more aware when passing cyclists.

But still I don't really believe that many people think about how their actions can reflect on their business or employers. I think it's a fair call to keep the video up. If drivers are only educated about road rules after they've endangered someone, then that's not really good enough, people need to be aware of their actions and the consequence of such behaviour.

and Aushiker, I know what you're hidden agenda is... It's highlighting what these incidents look like from a cyclists point of view...... lol.

They must have a greater faith in their local police in resolving these issues than I have with my locals. I've been fobbed off a couple of times with 'we deal with that every day when driving around in our cars' and one officer even said that it wasn't really an offense unless they hit me. :shock:
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Aushiker » Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:25 pm

ldrcycles wrote:I think they have a point, did you make any contact with them? They can't fix the problem if they don't know about it.


No I didn't make contact with them; really don't see the point for two reasons: (1) the purpose of the blog posting/video which was about how to minimise this sort of driving on the approach to wide roundabouts (which is why I posted the link to the blog posting to give the context to the video and (2) I didn't ask them to drive like this. If they don't want the publicly then don't drive like this in the first place -- not rocket science.

From the blog posting ...

Also if anyone can clarify the legal side of things as well that would be appreciated. For example in this video, the first motorist clearly broke the law crossing the double white lines, but is the pass by the Nu-Style Lighting employee unlawful? It was very scary having the van coming pass like that, and for what a second or two time saving?


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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Aushiker » Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:56 pm

This is why I rally for road safety ... and if fighting against these sorts of outcomes makes me a bleeding heart with too much spare time on his hands then I will wear that label with pride everyday.

[the cyclist] was still unconscious in intensive care in Royal Perth Hospital and that he had had a tracheotomy today. ... police had told her [mother] that *******’s helmet was split in two, he suffered bleeding on the brain and it took five days for the swelling to go down. He also suffered a badly broken leg but she did not have all the details.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby backslashio » Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:32 am

This happened a while ago but I was hit by a car with a young woman driving out from a retirement home village which had security gates. She was probably doing about 15kmph but didn't bother slowing down to check for traffic as she came out. I didn't really have much choice aside from braking (left/right would've been the same result) as I crashed into her car from the side & onto the bonnet. Thankfully the damage was very minor but only because I slammed the brakes hard enough otherwise I might've flipped & skidded over the bonnet whilst going 25kmph
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Kenzo » Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:30 am

Can someone please pass on to me a link to the current road regs in qld? A PM would be handy as I will miss the post in this thread... Not here enough ..

Thanks in advance.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby zero » Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:08 am

Aushiker wrote:
ldrcycles wrote:I think they have a point, did you make any contact with them? They can't fix the problem if they don't know about it.


No I didn't make contact with them; really don't see the point for two reasons: (1) the purpose of the blog posting/video which was about how to minimise this sort of driving on the approach to wide roundabouts (which is why I posted the link to the blog posting to give the context to the video and (2) I didn't ask them to drive like this. If they don't want the publicly then don't drive like this in the first place -- not rocket science.

From the blog posting ...

Also if anyone can clarify the legal side of things as well that would be appreciated. For example in this video, the first motorist clearly broke the law crossing the double white lines, but is the pass by the Nu-Style Lighting employee unlawful? It was very scary having the van coming pass like that, and for what a second or two time saving?


Andrew


it is not strictly illegal, its only illegal on the interpretation of a police officer that it was an unsafe pass (which it was, but thats *paperwork* for an officer). I agree yes it should be, but bear in mind that in heavy traffic conditions many cyclists would ride up the side there (even though its a good way to get left hooked at the intersection proper), and motorists don't seem to be able to distinguish conceptually the safety differences between heavy vehicle passing moving light vehicle at 60 vs light vehicle passing heavy stationary vehicle at 20.

I have a similar problem on approach to one roundabout where the inside line just steadily narrows until there is not enough space for both vehicles (fortunately there is a lane line so a claim of the lane is a little clearer than that particular intersection).

IMO in the short term the throat be improved by painting a buffer area on the left side of the lane to channel vehicles to the right - starting about 10m before of the throat entrance. The worst gutter crawlers will still ride on it, but it will narrow the perceived lane to motorists, which will simplify a cyclists task for turning right or going straight without being left hooked.

In the long term, its one of a thousand badly designed speed-instead-of-safety roundabouts in the country.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby human909 » Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:22 am

zero wrote:motorists don't seem to be able to distinguish conceptually the safety differences between heavy vehicle passing moving light vehicle at 60 vs light vehicle passing heavy stationary vehicle at 20.


So very true. When discussion of 1.5m(1m) passing laws come up belligerent motorists often complain that cyclists pass them with less space. To most motorist it seems driving is simply a sport, a game and as long as stick to the rules it doesn't matter if somebody gets hurt. Safety is a vital and our enforcing police officers need to realise this.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby arkle » Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:25 am

Aushiker wrote:
ldrcycles wrote:I think they have a point, did you make any contact with them? They can't fix the problem if they don't know about it.


No I didn't make contact with them; really don't see the point for two reasons: (1) the purpose of the blog posting/video which was about how to minimise this sort of driving on the approach to wide roundabouts (which is why I posted the link to the blog posting to give the context to the video and (2) I didn't ask them to drive like this. If they don't want the publicly then don't drive like this in the first place -- not rocket science.

Andrew


Hmm I think they have a point too. If the aim is really to improve their employee's driving I don't see how posting the video on inconsequential internet websites is going to help, compared with contacting them directly and asking them to educate their drivers (which I'm sure they'd be happy to do.) Your approach has clearly antagonised them and could be counter-productive if you've unnecessarily stirred up even more anti-cyclist sentiment and someone decides to do a couple of close shaves in retaliation. The chances of a random cyclist having a camera running are very small.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby find_bruce » Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:32 am

Kenzo wrote:Can someone please pass on to me a link to the current road regs in qld? A PM would be handy as I will miss the post in this thread... Not here enough ..

Thanks in advance.

PM sent
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby il padrone » Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:37 am

Aushiker wrote: It seems that the Nu Style Lightening don't appreciate my posting of the video as part of a discussion on handling such driver behaviour. Suggested responses most welcome.




Last time I looked it was generally legal to video public events. This video may well be bad PR for their business. They need to make sure their drivers and other staff are fully aware that they represent the company at all times whenever they wear the uniform, answer the phone or drive a company vehicle on the roads.

It comes back to the basic issue at hand - is it really important for your driver to save 2 seconds by endangering the life of a cyclist ? Why can the driver not use the brake ? The ball is in their own court.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Aushiker » Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:21 am

zero wrote:it is not strictly illegal, its only illegal on the interpretation of a police officer that it was an unsafe pass (which it was, but thats *paperwork* for an officer). I agree yes it should be, but bear in mind that in heavy traffic conditions many cyclists would ride up the side there (even though its a good way to get left hooked at the intersection proper), and motorists don't seem to be able to distinguish conceptually the safety differences between heavy vehicle passing moving light vehicle at 60 vs light vehicle passing heavy stationary vehicle at 20.

I have a similar problem on approach to one roundabout where the inside line just steadily narrows until there is not enough space for both vehicles (fortunately there is a lane line so a claim of the lane is a little clearer than that particular intersection).

IMO in the short term the throat be improved by painting a buffer area on the left side of the lane to channel vehicles to the right - starting about 10m before of the throat entrance. The worst gutter crawlers will still ride on it, but it will narrow the perceived lane to motorists, which will simplify a cyclists task for turning right or going straight without being left hooked.

In the long term, its one of a thousand badly designed speed-instead-of-safety roundabouts in the country.


Thanks for taking the trouble to make an informed response ... You have confirmed my thinking on the issue.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Aushiker » Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:25 am

il padrone wrote:Last time I looked it was generally legal to video public events. This video may well be bad PR for their business. They need to make sure their drivers and other staff are fully aware that they represent the company at all times whenever they wear the uniform, answer the phone or drive a company vehicle on the roads.

It comes back to the basic issue at hand - is it really important for your driver to save 2 seconds by endangering the life of a cyclist ? Why can the driver not use the brake ? The ball is in their own court.


Well said

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby arkle » Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:40 am

I guess it comes down to whether we want to improve road safety for cyclists, or to create bad PR for a company without informing them or giving them the chance to address the issue.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby il padrone » Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:46 am

So you are saying, arkle, that no-one should post any videos of driver conflicts on here unless they have first taken every step to approach/contact said driver or company about the issue ??

You see I have done this on a couple of instances and have met with everything from a luke-warm "we're sorry" to outright hostility and threats to smash my face in with a bit of reo bar. I doubt that any of this improved road safety for cyclists. The only place for addressing the issue is with the local Plod IMHO, if there has been a serious enough incident to warrant possible charges.

Otherwise, any driver is fair game to posting a video filmed on public roads.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby feral grasshopper » Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:53 am

il padrone wrote:So you are saying, arkle, that no-one should post any videos of driver conflicts on here unless they have first taken every step to approach/contact said driver or company about the issue ??

You see I have done this on a couple of instances and have met with everything from a luke-warm "we're sorry" to outright hostility and threats to smash my face in with a bit of reo bar. I doubt that any of this improved road safety for cyclists. The only place for addressing the issue is with the local Plod IMHO, if there has been a serious enough incident to warrant possible charges.

Otherwise, any driver is fair game to posting a video filmed on public roads.


+1, well said again.

i 'get' Arkle's point but i think his view is unfortunately over-optimistic when it comes to changing human behaviour. it would take a very long time to contact every motorist and company who puts cyclists at risk in this manner. the idea of posting to a public forum and video website is the publicity it achieves for the issue and maybe, just maybe, there maybe some instances that do not happen because of it. who knows, impossible for prove, we don't have parallel universes in which to see the results of alternative courses of action, only opinion!
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:01 am

I think the company has a point. (Whether they are serious in their stated attitude is real or not I do not know. All firms will make the same beatings regardless.)

However I wonder if working within the rules they suggest will give errant and insincere firms a chance to water down or obscure or minimize bad practices that have no redeeming circumstances. I'd go so far as to suggest that in obviously and severely bad cases disingenuous firms with sophisticated PR practices may even head off a critical public response by a first strike, couching the incident in less unfavorable terms in social and mainstream media. Meanwhile the complainant here is waiting for a response while the errant firm is girding itself to better handle the storm. Spin is a powerful tool.

So, what to do?

Perhaps we should initiate a protocol here where we still report here quickly as we do but, at the same time, email a link to the affected firm. That way the power of immediacy is not lost and alleged offenders do not get a heaps of time to prepare a defense after the event but before the damage.

I don't, unfortunately, have a GoPro so I am not heavily involved in lambasting drivers. Perhaps someone who is a regular critic on this thread and thinks my suggestion is worthy could start up a thread discussing this idea.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Aushiker » Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:06 am

arkle wrote:I guess it comes down to whether we want to improve road safety for cyclists, or to create bad PR for a company without informing them or giving them the chance to address the issue.

arkle


Actually the video was uploaded as part of blog posting seeking advice on how to deal with roundabouts with wide approaches ... I guess I didn't make that very clear which may explain why you feel the need to make things up and for that matter to quote me out of context ignoring the explanation which was also in the post you quoted.

To quote myself from the blog posting and in part from here ...

My latest experience with this roundabout can be seen from the following video. I thought I had claimed the lane but as you can see clearly not. So, here I am putting it out there for advice on how best to handle these sorts of wide approaches to roundabouts. For some reason this roundabout is much worse than a similar wide roundabout approach at the intersection of Northshore Drive and Whitfords Avenue, Hillarys as when I am southbound claiming the lane here generally results in motorists being safe and considerate.

Also if anyone can clarify the legal side of things as well that would be appreciated. For example in this video, the first motorist clearly broke the law crossing the double white lines, but is the pass by the Nu-Style Lighting employee unlawful? It was very scary having the van coming pass like that, and for what a second or two time saving?

Please share your thoughts below in the comments section. Do I need to ride wider than I am?


and from the YouTube description ...

This video is part of a post on how to best handle roundabouts such as this one with a wide approach. Your input is welcome and the background post can be found at http://cyclepolice.com/roundabouts-wi.. .


Andrew
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Aushiker » Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:13 am

arkle wrote:I guess it comes down to whether we want to improve road safety for cyclists, or to create bad PR for a company without informing them or giving them the chance to address the issue.


You mean like in this instance or my past feedback to Transperth that resulted in a driver being awarded Bus Driver of the Month? Maybe you can share what you have down to improve corporate driver behaviour so we can learn from it as well.



I do apologise if I missed your constructive feedback on this video which was posted in this thread BTW unlike the one subject to your crticisms...

Andrew
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Aushiker » Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:31 am

ColinOldnCranky wrote:I think the company has a point. (Whether they are serious in their stated attitude is real or not I do not know. All firms will make the same beatings regardless.).


The video was not until yesterday (i.e., after the company contacted me) posted in this thread (and I don't think here at this forum at all thinking about it now). It was used only in a blog posting (and on YouTube) as part of an attempt to getting a better understanding of how to handle a particular situation, i.e., it is called education.

Maybe we should have a protocol requiring reading and comprehension before jumping to conclusions? :wink:

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