Moron Motorists #3

open topic, for anything cycling related.

Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby trailgumby » Sat Aug 03, 2013 5:58 pm

No the passing on the left thing isn't related to bike lanes. The law simply says you can neither "ride past" nor "overtake" a vehicle on the left that is indicating and turning left. The "ride past" bit is key. It doesn't matter if you're in a bike lane, you can't "ride past".

No, definitely not the case. If you are in a bike lane you are in a separate lane, period.

Anyone seeking to merge or cross must give way just like you were any other vehicle in any other lane. The no overtaking on the left when a vehicle is indicating left applies when overtaking in the same lane and only to bicycles since they are specifically noted in the rules as the only vehicles allowed to overtake on the left. However, if you are not in the same lane you are not classed as overtaking on the left..

The consequence if inthewoods assertion is true is that every vehicle in the lane to the left of the indicating vehicle is obligated to yield. This is not correct. The vehicle changing lanes is obligated to give way to any vehicle already in the lane.

What that green truck did is worth following up with the cops as it would result in a TIN in any of the states Qld included.
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by BNA » Sat Aug 03, 2013 6:19 pm

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby InTheWoods » Sat Aug 03, 2013 6:19 pm

Today just kept getting worse.

First half of the ride was fine, apart from the bogan in a monaro or something decided to show off his engine on the way past me - only to almost smash into the back of the car in front.

Then got a series of close shaves on waterworks road. For one of them I had to drive over a drainage grate as there was just no space. So now it was no longer a nice day, I went back to claiming the lane. And got this idiot.



Who overtakes me *on the left* using a school bus stop. The right lane was moving slower than I was so he figured he'd just get in front...
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Sat Aug 03, 2013 6:33 pm

InTheWoods wrote:Today just kept getting worse.

First half of the ride was fine, apart from the bogan in a monaro or something decided to show off his engine on the way past me - only to almost smash into the back of the car in front.

Then got a series of close shaves on waterworks road. For one of them I had to drive over a drainage grate as there was just no space. So now it was no longer a nice day, I went back to claiming the lane. And got this idiot.



Who overtakes me *on the left* using a school bus stop. The right lane was moving slower than I was so he figured he'd just get in front...
That is one that I think should be handed to the constabulary.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jasonc » Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:12 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote:That is one that I think should be handed to the constabulary.

+1

or submit it to Channel 7 - they seem to be running bike stories at the moment

BTW - the problem with InTheWoods is he lives on the wrong side of Brisbane ;)
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby InTheWoods » Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:52 pm

Yeh it'll go to the plod. I was a bit gobsmacked.

While I'm on a roll...

On the backstreets going to work, having to content with rat-runners. This ute overtakes me while going around a sharp bend in the middle of a traffic calming chicane. I think there was some writing on the side, but stupid camera is playing up so I can't see it. I wonder what 999 TCA is though...


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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby trailgumby » Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:59 pm

Wow you are on a roll

Think the addition of a front cam would make the video a lot more impactful.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby VRE » Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:04 pm

jasonc wrote:
ColinOldnCranky wrote:That is one that I think should be handed to the constabulary.

+1

or submit it to Channel 7 - they seem to be running bike stories at the moment

BTW - the problem with InTheWoods is he lives on the wrong side of Brisbane ;)

No, he lives on the wrong side of Amsterdam (we all do) :( .
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby InTheWoods » Sun Aug 04, 2013 1:36 pm

VRE wrote:No, he lives on the wrong side of Amsterdam (we all do) :( .


:(

On another note here's a story http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sout ... 6690743501

What she did cost somebody their leg, but it seems few people today would be willing to take responsibility for it like she has. Usually there's somebody else or something else to blame. Or it was just an "accident".
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby trailgumby » Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:28 pm

Had a ripper riding back from Cascades trails at Belrose today.

Got T-boned by an old woman in a silver Golf at the roundabout cnr Rodborough and Allambie Rds. It turns out she just didn't look. Unfortunately she fooled me into thinking she'd seen me by driving so slowly.

Fortunately it was a low speed impact. No damage to bike or other body parts but she ran over my foot which I'd unclipped to keep my balance.

She looked confused and initially didn't want to pull over and then when she did and we were talking she had the attitude it was my fault that she didn't see me. So that prompted a call to the cops, who attended. I'm guessing they'll issue a TIN but will hear tonight. I also raised concerns regarding her fitness to drive.

Foot is a little sore but I don't think anything is broken. Will go to med centre tonight when the missus returns from visiting family.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby trailgumby » Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:43 pm

... will only be enhanced. :(

Very cranky my son had to see this happen.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Dragster1 » Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:11 pm

trailgumby wrote:Had a ripper riding back from Cascades trails at Belrose today.

Got T-boned by an old woman in a silver Golf at the roundabout cnr Rodborough and Allambie Rds. It turns out she just didn't look. Unfortunately she fooled me into thinking she'd seen me by driving so slowly.

Fortunately it was a low speed impact. No damage to bike or other body parts but she ran over my foot which I'd unclipped to keep my balance.

She looked confused and initially didn't want to pull over and then when she did and we were talking she had the attitude it was my fault that she didn't see me. So that prompted a call to the cops, who attended. I'm guessing they'll issue a TIN but will hear tonight. I also raised concerns regarding her fitness to drive.

Foot is a little sore but I don't think anything is broken. Will go to med centre tonight when the missus returns from visiting family.

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Hope you get better soon. When I see old people I keep well away from them, specially when they open car doors they never seem to look.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jules21 » Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:18 pm

Daisy Abela follows in Emma Way's footsteps with tweets of intentional collision with cyclist
(warning: poor language)
August 3, 2013
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After the news two weeks ago that Emma Way was to face charges of driving without due care and attention and leaving the scene of a collision after her #bloodycyclists outburst on twitter, Daisy Abela seems to be treading a worryingly similar path after tweeting today that she intentionally ran over a cylist after an altercation.

It's been noted before that a disproportionate amount of the anger towards cyclists on twitter – as collated by the twitter account @cyclehatred – comes from young female drivers. There have been different theories put forward as to why this might be so; everything from a feeling of vulnerability to the simple fact of young females being over-represented on twitter. But once again it's a young female driver involved, this time seemingly admitting to deliberately running down a cyclist.

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She also states in her timeline that she was "definitely still drunk" and of course that she hates cyclists.

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The altercation seemingly cost her a wing mirror.

Emma Way's case was investigated by Norfolk Police after the cyclist, Toby Hockley, came forward to say he'd been knocked off his bike whilst taking part in a sportive. The tweet subsequently went viral, with Ms Way appearing on local radio and BBC breakfast television to apologise. For the tweet, we might add, not the incident or the attitude.

Daisy Abela seems to hail from near Bromley in Greater London. So if you were involved in an altercation with a female driver anywhere in that vicinity this morning, that ended with you being run down, it might be worth getting in touch with your local constabulary.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Sun Aug 04, 2013 6:29 pm

I'm just a little suspicious that it is a troll havign mischeif. Account is locked down now so I can't say if it is a very new account or not. (A facedbook page that, on first glance, is the same persion is a couple of months old.)
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby zero » Sun Aug 04, 2013 11:12 pm

I was walking back to work tonight, when a ute driver sideswipes the car alongside me, and then proceeds to slam into the rear of the next parked car.

Thats all well and good but as I walk back towards him, he guns the engine, runs back 10m, then tries to overtake the parked car, and slams into it again. Not content with 2 failures that the overtaking the parked car game, he reverses up a third time and does it again. By now he's pushed the back of the car he hit in so hard from the 3 hits that its basically squashed back to the c-pillar. After the third attempt, with his left wheel stuck 90 degrees out of whack, he then squeals up the road at 35.

Police caught him not far away. Apparently sober.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby find_bruce » Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:41 am

zero wrote:Police caught him not far away. Apparently sober.
Only one of these things is surprising. Sadly it means he can't improve his driving merely by being sober
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby BianchiCam » Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:23 pm

Yet another.....

Returning home from a windy ride i encounter this moron. Riding towards the downhill part of this stretch towards Mornington, the road narrows some what at the beginning of the downhill part which is like a funnel with high hedges on both sides and a 'token' bike lane. Gutter area is crap to say the least (riddled with cracks, gaps and black snaking join line 'fixes') so I claim the lane near the approach after checking for cars approaching. Commodore is quite a way behind when I check. Before I know it, this nob head shoots past travelling at well over the 80kph limit at the beginning of the descent. Way to fast, WAY to close. The wide angle on the lens makes it seem further away. Cars behind him are better and one even indicates before passing me. This hill is such a pia most times. This shook me up somewhat!

http://youtu.be/cbgknf-w960

To put the finishing touch to my ride, I was almost collected by an Audi 4X4 as i was turning right into my road. Entered the center of the road after signalling. She comes to the T and stops. "Great she's seen me" continue to cross the front of her USV and she's bloody pulling out! Jaysus! Look at her through the window and she is all, "sorry, sorry" Grrrrrrrrrrrr! :twisted:
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Summernight » Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:52 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote:Where is the drama? Nothing dangerous, parked at an angle well over so they can see that there is no one in imminent danger to be decked by the door before opening it. You were nowhere near in danger, you were well back and the only "hazard" was the loss of a little time.

All I see is a driver and passenger taking a safe opportunity to carry out a necessary action for which there are not too many chances. And, if I read it right, the car park further up the road that you allude to on Youtube is neither here nor there as, in peak traffic, it is just as likely not to be there when the driver arrives, if the driver can even see it that far in advance.

Put yourself in the other party's shoes. It is difficult enough out there for both drivers and riders without a little give and take.

You were driving attentively and at a moderate speed - very sensible. So, in answer to your question, I wouldn't put it in either the dumb cyclists or the moron motorists thread.


So it is okay to illegally open a door without looking while waiting in traffic, hop out of a running car whenever and wherever you'd like, stroll around taking your time without looking while you block other road users and are standing on a road? Sounds like an extremely selfish outlook.

When I refer to parking spots, I also refer to the fact that if you want to stop and let off a passenger in a much safer manner, turn left at an intersection (and there are plenty in the CBD) and park close to the gutter, looking that you aren't cutting off someone at the time and unload there. Still probably illegal if you don't park in a parking spot (there are also a fair few taxi zones and loading zones around there that you could use), but much safer for all than throwing open a door over a bike lane. An even better way if you can't manage the extra 50 metres is to completely block the bike lane with your car (which some drivers do without realising and taxi drivers do as a matter of course) and then have the passenger stepping out on the footpath. That may still be illegal and you'll get abused for blocking the bike lane, but hey, safer for all, right? :roll:

The problem I have with people doing this and me saying "that's okay, he only held me up a couple of seconds." (which didn't even register in my mind, BTW) without raising awareness of the issue is that it becomes a habit if this is a regular drop-off point for this car and passenger combination and if he continues to fail to look before opening the door then he WILL hit or be hit by a cyclist at some point as this route is busy.

So yes, for the impatience of not waiting for a safe time to unload a passenger, I believes he deserves a spot in a Moron thread somewhere. I have been doored at slow speed because of someone doing exactly this in the other direction on this street with the same width bike lane beside a tram superstop, so I don't have sympathy for your viewpoint.

I would have more sympathy for the passenger if he'd hopped out and quickly closed the door and held himself flush to the car as it would show he was aware of his surroundings and others. As it was he didn't even bother looking.

Speaking of this exact same tram superstop, this is this morning (although I'm not sure whether it is that easy to see):



The taxi fails to look before cutting the bike lane (and the lady cyclist in it) off. She was up to his rear passenger door when he started to merge into her (the positioning of the camera lower down under my handlebars doesn't give a good perspective of this like I saw from up top) so she almost overbalanced into the gutter/footpath verge before braking to get out of the situation.

VRE wrote:Is that Collins St in the CBD? Isn't there any alternative route you can take? That pathetic excuse for a 'bike lane' is probably the worst one I've ever seen.


Yes, Collins St CBD. And no, not really to the alternatives (there is the MYT but it would triple the distance). The width of the bike lane is all thanks to the tram superstops. You have to be good at holding your line. When there is no traffic banked up I am out of the lane in the vehicle lane which isn't so bad. If people stay in their lane, look before doing anything and don't open doors over the bike lane it works fine.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby TraceyG » Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:56 pm

Riding in Melbourne with a large group yesterday and a young male driver had to wait to make his right hand turn because we were crossing the intersection on the green light so he let rip with a mouthful of verbal abuse. I just wonder if he would have had the same attitude if it was other cars holding him up? We just laughed it off and noted that we were clearly having a better day than he was!
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby InTheWoods » Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:38 pm

Summernight wrote:The taxi fails to look before cutting the bike lane (and the lady cyclist in it) off. She was up to his rear passenger door when he started to merge into her (the positioning of the camera lower down under my handlebars doesn't give a good perspective of this like I saw from up top) so she almost overbalanced into the gutter/footpath verge before braking to get out of the situation.


Am I misinterpreting that? The taxi is indicating left before the bike gets to it and then rider then tries to pass on the left?

141 (2) The rider of a bicycle must not ride past, or
overtake, to the left of a vehicle that is turning left
and is giving a left change of direction signal.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Summernight » Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:41 pm

InTheWoods wrote:
Summernight wrote:The taxi fails to look before cutting the bike lane (and the lady cyclist in it) off. She was up to his rear passenger door when he started to merge into her (the positioning of the camera lower down under my handlebars doesn't give a good perspective of this like I saw from up top) so she almost overbalanced into the gutter/footpath verge before braking to get out of the situation.


Am I misinterpreting that? The taxi is indicating left before the bike gets to it and then rider then tries to pass on the left?

141 (2) The rider of a bicycle must not ride past, or
overtake, to the left of a vehicle that is turning left
and is giving a left change of direction signal.


Yes - that is a bike lane with dotted lines on the ground between the lane and the moving vehicle lane to say to cars that they must give way to vehicles in the bike lane. She was already alongside him prior to him indicating and him moving over said dotted line.

I hope I made sense. If not try this: the taxi must cross a dotted line on the road prior to him moving left. He is changing lanes and must give-way to all vehicles already in said lane that he is moving into.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby InTheWoods » Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:50 pm

Summernight wrote:Yes - that is a bike lane with dotted lines on the ground between the lane and the moving vehicle lane to say to cars that they must give way to vehicles in the bike lane. She was already alongside him prior to him indicating and him moving over said dotted line.

I hope I made sense. If not try this: the taxi must cross a dotted line on the road prior to him moving left. He is changing lanes and must give-way to all vehicles already in said lane that he is moving into.


I watched the video slowly a couple of times. The indicator is on before the bike tries to pass.

I agree that you need to give way when changing lanes. But the rules also say a bicycle cannot "ride past" a left turning&indicating vehicle on the left - it doesn't mention bike lanes, it just says "must not ride past" - bike lane or no bike lane it doesn't matter. I'm not sure which one takes precedence. But I think the "spirit" of law at least is that the bike should haven't tried to pass then. Could be wrong.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby hannos » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:07 pm

InTheWoods wrote:
Summernight wrote:Yes - that is a bike lane with dotted lines on the ground between the lane and the moving vehicle lane to say to cars that they must give way to vehicles in the bike lane. She was already alongside him prior to him indicating and him moving over said dotted line.

I hope I made sense. If not try this: the taxi must cross a dotted line on the road prior to him moving left. He is changing lanes and must give-way to all vehicles already in said lane that he is moving into.


I watched the video slowly a couple of times. The indicator is on before the bike tries to pass.

I agree that you need to give way when changing lanes. But the rules also say a bicycle cannot "ride past" a left turning&indicating vehicle on the left - it doesn't mention bike lanes, it just says "must not ride past" - bike lane or no bike lane it doesn't matter. I'm not sure which one takes precedence. But I think the "spirit" of law at least is that the bike should haven't tried to pass then. Could be wrong.



The bicycle is in its own lane. This lane is treated exactly the same as any other lane a car would drive in, ie those merging INTO the lane MUST give way.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Summernight » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:16 pm

InTheWoods wrote:
Summernight wrote:Yes - that is a bike lane with dotted lines on the ground between the lane and the moving vehicle lane to say to cars that they must give way to vehicles in the bike lane. She was already alongside him prior to him indicating and him moving over said dotted line.

I hope I made sense. If not try this: the taxi must cross a dotted line on the road prior to him moving left. He is changing lanes and must give-way to all vehicles already in said lane that he is moving into.


I watched the video slowly a couple of times. The indicator is on before the bike tries to pass.

I agree that you need to give way when changing lanes. But the rules also say a bicycle cannot "ride past" a left turning&indicating vehicle on the left - it doesn't mention bike lanes, it just says "must not ride past" - bike lane or no bike lane it doesn't matter. I'm not sure which one takes precedence. But I think the "spirit" of law at least is that the bike should haven't tried to pass then. Could be wrong.


She was beside the taxi when the indicator went on - I saw the whole thing from a metre or more higher up than the camera angle. The taxi was changing lanes. Putting aside whether or not she was beside the taxi and whether or not he saw her (which he didn't), do you change lanes into another lane when you can see a car coming up on you that will have to brake to allow you in? Failing to give way to vehicles already in a lane is an offence.

Vic Road Rules wrote:148 Giving way when moving from one marked lane or line of traffic to another marked lane or line of traffic
(1) A driver who is moving from one marked lane (whether or not the lane is ending) to another marked lane must give way to any vehicle travelling in the same direction as the driver in the marked lane to which the driver is moving.
Penalty: 5 penalty units.
Notes
1 Marked lane and multi-lane road are defined in the dictionary.
2 For this rule, give way means the driver must slow down and, if necessary, stop to avoid a collision—see the definition in the dictionary.
Examples
Giving way when moving from one marked lane to anothermarked lane
Example 1 Example 2
In these examples, vehicle B must give way to vehicle A.
(2) A driver on a road with 2 or more lines of traffic travelling in the same direction as the driver, and who is moving from one line of traffic to another line of traffic, must give way to any vehicle travelling in the same direction as the driver in the line of traffic to which the driver is moving.
Penalty: 5 penalty units.
(3) Subrule (2) does not apply to a driver if the line of traffic in which the driver is driving is merging with the line of traffic to which the driver is moving.

Dictionary definition of a marked lane: marked lane means an area of a road marked by continuous or broken lines, or rows of studs or markers, on the road surface that is designed for use by a single line of vehicles


The actual legislation from the Victorian Parliamentary website also includes diagrams. http://www.legislation.vic.gov.au/domin ... 4sr003.pdf

If the legislation is similar for the Sylvan Rd video posted by Bah77 and discussed above then I'd say the same thing of the left-hooker - he failed to give way to the cyclist when changing lanes over a solid line.
Last edited by Summernight on Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jules21 » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:20 pm

one thing to remember is that it is possible for both road users to be committing an offence, at the same time. (not saying that's the case here, but it's a point which is very poorly understood - particularly by police).
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby zero » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:47 pm

InTheWoods wrote:
Summernight wrote:The taxi fails to look before cutting the bike lane (and the lady cyclist in it) off. She was up to his rear passenger door when he started to merge into her (the positioning of the camera lower down under my handlebars doesn't give a good perspective of this like I saw from up top) so she almost overbalanced into the gutter/footpath verge before braking to get out of the situation.


Am I misinterpreting that? The taxi is indicating left before the bike gets to it and then rider then tries to pass on the left?

141 (2) The rider of a bicycle must not ride past, or
overtake, to the left of a vehicle that is turning left
and is giving a left change of direction signal.


You are a left turning vehicle when you move to a different road, or leave the roadway. You aren't a left turning vehicle when changing lanes. You also aren't a left turning vehicle 20m away from the apex changing lanes to make an actual turn, but bear in mind different jurisdictions in the country have potentially different interpretations of that scenario.

In any case she may have braked from the moment she saw the indicator.
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