Moron Motorists #3

open topic, for anything cycling related.

Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby InTheWoods » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:30 pm

ldrcycles wrote:The keyword is lawful instruction, it is legal to ride 2 abreast, so in that example telling you not to would not be a lawful instruction IMO.


Well its lawful to ride single file too so you would still be being told to do something that is lawful. Its not like you are being told to do something unlawful, like, I don't know, ride with no hands or sit somewhere that isn't the seat! :) Anyway I'll stop going OT and look it up sometime.
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by BNA » Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:08 pm

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby find_bruce » Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:08 pm

InTheWoods wrote:Sorry for going OT here but what does this mean? Hypothetically if you are riding and a police car gets on the loud hailer and tells you to do something like move further left (eg claiming a lane) or stop riding 2 abreast or something ... do you have to do it? What makes a "lawful instruction"? Edit: obviously this is without the blues and twos going, in which case you would do everything to get out of the way.

ldrcycles wrote:The keyword is lawful instruction, it is legal to ride 2 abreast, so in that example telling you not to would not be a lawful instruction IMO.

Not quite right lochy, lawful in this instance relates to the police having the power to make the direction. The most common usage is a direction to "move on", primarily used for youths, the homeless, drunks & persons of certain races.

All Australian police have similar powers, but the detail varies from State to State. In Queensland, most of the police powers are found in the Police Powers and Responsibilities Act 2000 (Qld) - eg the power to move on is in sections 44–48. The power in relation to vehicles & pedestrians is section 59
(1) A police officer may give to a driver of a vehicle or to a pedestrian on or about to enter a road, or to a passenger in a vehicle, any direction the police officer reasonably considers necessary for the safe and effective regulation of traffic on the road.

(2) Also, if an emergency exists, a police officer may give to a driver of or passenger in a train any direction the police officer reasonably considers necessary.

(3) Without limiting subsection (1), a police officer may act under that subsection if the police officer reasonably suspects an emergency exists or it is otherwise necessary to temporarily prohibit, divert or direct traffic and pedestrians.
Examples for subsection (3)—
1 a siege where firearms are being discharged and members of the public may be hurt
2 a serious or fatal road accident requiring treatment of injured persons, removal of bodies, wreckage to be cleared or evidence to be gathered for investigating the cause of the accident

(4) A direction under subsection (1) may include a direction to the owner or driver of a parked vehicle to move the vehicle as soon as practicable.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby find_bruce » Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:12 pm

InTheWoods wrote:Well its lawful to ride single file too so you would still be being told to do something that is lawful. Its not like you are being told to do something unlawful, like, I don't know, ride with no hands or sit somewhere that isn't the seat! :) Anyway I'll stop going OT and look it up sometime.

Actually Police can give you a direction to do something that would otherwise be unlawful - eg go the wrong way up a one way street.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby The 2nd Womble » Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:34 am

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby zero » Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:40 pm

Womble that one needs to go to the police.

It is not a "road rules" infringement, its an offence under CRIMES ACT 1900 - SECT 49A NSW.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby GeoffInBrisbane » Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:47 pm

Video evidence of that would be good! Hard to see the cops not taking a dim view of stuff like that.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby arkle » Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:31 pm

I have just come back from a month in the UK, most of which I spent in the northern city of Leeds. While I was there I borrowed a mountain bike and did 350km on it, on a mixture of urban, sub-urban and rural roads. In the entire time I was there I didn't experience any close passes, horn beeping or shouting, and heard only one loud exhaust system on a car. In fact, the motorists were almost embarrassingly polite; hanging back and waiting for safe overtaking opportunities even on the rural roads where the speed limit was 100km/h. Sometimes the oncoming cars slowed down and flashed their headlights to let the overtaking cars pass me safely. There was a lot of smiling and waving "thank you."

In the two days that I have been back in Adelaide I've covered 100km and it has been awful. Almost all the passes, including normal overtaking (i.e. not deliberate close passes) are too fast and too close for comfort and safety. It's shocking and depressing, and it seems like the problem is so universally and deeply engrained within the psyche of the Australian motorist that it is never going to change. Seriously, you don't realise just how much you've lowered your perception of what is normal, until you go somewhere else and experience the way it should be.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby The 2nd Womble » Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:36 pm

But we do have tans.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby BianchiCam » Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:45 pm

And excess beer cans apparently...
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby il padrone » Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:09 pm

arkle wrote:I have just come back from a month in the UK, most of which I spent in the northern city of Leeds. While I was there I borrowed a mountain bike and did 350km on it, on a mixture of urban, sub-urban and rural roads. In the entire time I was there I didn't experience any close passes, horn beeping or shouting, and heard only one loud exhaust system on a car. In fact, the motorists were almost embarrassingly polite; hanging back and waiting for safe overtaking opportunities even on the rural roads where the speed limit was 100km/h. Sometimes the oncoming cars slowed down and flashed their headlights to let the overtaking cars pass me safely. There was a lot of smiling and waving "thank you."

In the two days that I have been back in Adelaide I've covered 100km and it has been awful. Almost all the passes, including normal overtaking (i.e. not deliberate close passes) are too fast and too close for comfort and safety. It's shocking and depressing, and it seems like the problem is so universally and deeply engrained within the psyche of the Australian motorist that it is never going to change. Seriously, you don't realise just how much you've lowered your perception of what is normal, until you go somewhere else and experience the way it should be.

+1

Same sort of experience with our travels in Italy and France. We did have a driver blasting his horn aggressively at us on the west coast road on Isola d'Elba..... once in 3 months of cycling :o :wink:

Australian roads and drivers are hell in contrast.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby skull » Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:34 pm

il padrone wrote:]

Same sort of experience with our travels in Italy and France. We did have a driver blasting his horn aggressively at us on the west coast road on Isola d'Elba..... once in 3 months of cycling :o :wink:
.


Probably an Australian on holidays too
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby il padrone » Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:48 pm

Yeah, I did think that was a possibility :lol:
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby mattwilkinson » Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:13 pm

Put my Caller ID on blocked and was prepared to spam the !! BAN ME NOW FOR SWEARING !! out of the concrete guys phone but its turned off :(
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby ldrcycles » Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:27 pm

find_bruce wrote: stuff


Interesting reading, thanks for setting me straight :) .
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby foo on patrol » Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:48 pm

Just found out that one of my old foes fo the Gold Coast was hit today in a road rage incident.:evil: That's all I can say at the moment. Charges pending!

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby rogan » Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:08 pm

We need a "brown" list of businesses to boycott. These Ezi-Flow turkeys, Jim's Mowing, I could add a few... Hornsby Landscape Supplies, Marapet Electrical...
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby BianchiCam » Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:26 pm

and Peninsular Screens Pr*(AT)^s if you like although, this guy is just being reckless and impatient.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtQ9hYSY ... hxdyNpNhaQ


Copy of Mr Angry from Milton Keynes letter


Dear Sir,
I want to bring to your attention a driving matter that occurred on the above road between Winstone Estate and Glassblowers on Tuesday 24th Sept.

I was riding my bike up the hill and noticed a small tractor approaching. There was around 4-5 cars behind the tractor. This road is windy and also has double lines marked.
As I barely passed the tractor, a ute bearing your business name decided to overtake the tractor. The ute came extremely close to me causing me to change direction.
At no time did the ute indicate to overtake, but was also in such a rush as to not realize that this is also a blind bend and there are also double lines along that stretch.
If the driver had waited a minute or so more, the road straightens out where it is safer to overtake.
The ute was first in line. No other cars tried such a risky maneuver.

It is risky and illegal maneuvers such as this that get people killed.
I can only hope you could emphasize the importance of patience and professionalism being shown, especially when representing your companies name.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby cp123 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:47 pm

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby il padrone » Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:06 pm

rogan wrote:We need a "brown" list of businesses to boycott. These Ezi-Flow turkeys, Jim's Mowing, I could add a few... Hornsby Landscape Supplies, Marapet Electrical...

Mr Rabbot is going to make secondary boycotts illegal so you can't do that :P :|
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jules21 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:19 pm

il padrone wrote:Mr Rabbot is going to make secondary boycotts illegal so you can't do that :P :|

maybe a list of approved tenderers then ;)
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Xplora » Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:51 pm

il padrone wrote:
rogan wrote:We need a "brown" list of businesses to boycott. These Ezi-Flow turkeys, Jim's Mowing, I could add a few... Hornsby Landscape Supplies, Marapet Electrical...

Mr Rabbot is going to make secondary boycotts illegal so you can't do that :P :|

You can boycott companies directly, this right cannot be extinguished. If you were to boycott the suppliers for these businesses (if they all drove Holdens, for example) then there would be an issue. But your right to organise a primary boycott would not be affected by these rule changes.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby BastardSheep » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:13 pm

Xplora wrote:You can boycott companies directly, this right cannot be extinguished. If you were to boycott the suppliers for these businesses (if they all drove Holdens, for example) then there would be an issue. But your right to organise a primary boycott would not be affected by these rule changes.


You are the first person I've seen in the last 48 hours explain the secondary boycotts in a clear and concise manner. I finally know what they are talking about by it.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jasonc » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:17 pm

BastardSheep wrote:
Xplora wrote:You can boycott companies directly, this right cannot be extinguished. If you were to boycott the suppliers for these businesses (if they all drove Holdens, for example) then there would be an issue. But your right to organise a primary boycott would not be affected by these rule changes.


You are the first person I've seen in the last 48 hours explain the secondary boycotts in a clear and concise manner. I finally know what they are talking about by it.


I think I understand.
Does that mean the gay and bisexual community are not able to boycott "gloria jeans coffee" because they support the Liberal party who are against gay union?
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby il padrone » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:20 pm

Xplora wrote:
il padrone wrote:
rogan wrote:We need a "brown" list of businesses to boycott. These Ezi-Flow turkeys, Jim's Mowing, I could add a few... Hornsby Landscape Supplies, Marapet Electrical...

Mr Rabbot is going to make secondary boycotts illegal so you can't do that :P :|

You can boycott companies directly, this right cannot be extinguished. If you were to boycott the suppliers for these businesses (if they all drove Holdens, for example) then there would be an issue. But your right to organise a primary boycott would not be affected by these rule changes.

I think Mr Rabbot is trying to apply the 'secondary' aspect to lobbying organisations (environmental groups, social welfare groups), by preventing them organising their members/contacts to carry out a boycott of a business or other organisation. Any individual is free to boycott any business they choose ie. not buy stuff from them, but it is the organisation of such a mass boycott that they want to stop.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby il padrone » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:23 pm

jasonc wrote:I think I understand.
Does that mean the gay and bisexual community are not able to boycott "gloria jeans coffee" because they support the Liberal party who are against gay union?

That is exactly what the government wants to put a stop to. Individuals refusing to purchase cannot be prosecuted, it's the organisations involved that will be held liable eg. BNA
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