Moron Motorists #3

open topic, for anything cycling related.

Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby ldrcycles » Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:53 pm

human909 wrote:
The question is why do we tolerate driving mistakes so readily? I do recognise that driving is a dynamic environment that we allow non professionals to participate in so some tolerance is understandable. However the tolerance that we have towards injuring and maiming somebody with a motor vehicle has no parallel. In almost any other circumstance you would be charge with assault or criminal negligence.


Absolutely spot on, and it disgusts me. There is a great deal of anguish (and rightly so) about the 39 australian soldiers who have been killed in afghanistan, yet in just ONE year, 1,292 people were killed on the roads here. IMO that is many orders of magnitude more than can be attributed to a true 'accident', a completely unavoidable set of circumstances.
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by BNA » Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:54 pm

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby human909 » Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:54 pm

Yes. I didn't really mean to disagree with you. Just wanting to discus mistakes. :wink: The are many things we CAN'T afford to mistake as their consequences mean almost certain death. Competent people who take things seriously largely don't make mistakes in these areas. I outdoor rockclimb regularly and acceptance of mistakes in some aspects is totally intolerable as the consequence is certain death. I make mistakes often over some things due to lack of care, but when something matters I am confident in saying that I don't make mistakes. In fact I literally stake my life on it.

Driving on 100kph two lane roads is not too different really.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby maestro » Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:23 pm

This afternoon I had a black "mummy mobile" start to overtake. I was doing more than 45 in a 50 zone, so the overtake was slow. Just as her rear wheel was about level with my rear wheel, on comes the left indicator and she starts to slow. A quick blast of the AirZound got her attention and we both slowed and I went past when it looked safe. Then, for some reason she blasted me with her horn a few times. I've no idea why, maybe she didn't like her mistakes pointed out to her, but all I cared about was not getting wiped out, so I wasn't too worried at that point.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby lump_a_charcoal » Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:54 pm

I encountered a real dip-somaniac on the M4 tonight driving home...

I was in the left lane, and was overtaken by a dark Magna, who then merged into my lane about 1m off my bonnet. As his B pillar passed my front wheel, he was in my lane.

He then proceded to do the same to 3 more cars.
He would speed up to 140, then drop back down to 100 also. I think he might have been partaking a little more than wise.

With any luck, he will be removed from the gene pool soon - I just hope he doesn't take anyone else with him.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Lukeyboy » Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:53 pm

Went for a nice bike ride to Mount Nebo and back via Samford. Every car that passed gave more than plenty of room, a couple trucks gave a friendly toot from a distance back to let me know they were passing and some 4WD group with vic number plates blasted passed but still with some clearence. Ride back into Brisbane and suddenly the d***head drivers are out in force. As I'm coming to a stop at the intersection outside Ferny Grove Station some guy in a ute locks it up before the red lights. A few minutes later heading through Enoggera Park some stupid P plater thought he'd drive thru the intersection just as I was about to go flying thru at 50kph. I slam on the brakes and literally just miss t-boning dordling fool. I guess he didn't have the patience of waiting that extra couple seconds for me to go past. Just as I get off the bikeway heading thru the Edinburgh Castle Road roundabout another fool decides to try and beat me even through I had the right of way and was already using the roundabout but as he tries to get ahead realises that I'm moving pretty fast. His window was down so I yelled at him. The whole time i was looking at the driver and he kept his head looking straight ahead not looking at me on purpose but driving wide to get ahead. Must have looked in his mirror to see where I was as he ended up almost driving over the road island and into the car waiting there. Riding through Chermside with the green light and a ped decides to step out on the red. And just as I'm at the roundabout to access my street I'm as I enter the roundabout and intercating what way I want to go this time a woman decides to try to beat me and cut me off in the process. Floored it to get ahead, slowed down again to make the turn off down the hill and then she decides to brake check me before braking heavily again to turn off into a side street. Seriously something has to be done about these idiots :roll:
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby boss » Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:46 am

ldrcycles wrote:
human909 wrote:
The question is why do we tolerate driving mistakes so readily? I do recognise that driving is a dynamic environment that we allow non professionals to participate in so some tolerance is understandable. However the tolerance that we have towards injuring and maiming somebody with a motor vehicle has no parallel. In almost any other circumstance you would be charge with assault or criminal negligence.


Absolutely spot on, and it disgusts me. There is a great deal of anguish (and rightly so) about the 39 australian soldiers who have been killed in afghanistan, yet in just ONE year, 1,292 people were killed on the roads here. IMO that is many orders of magnitude more than can be attributed to a true 'accident', a completely unavoidable set of circumstances.


If there were as many soldiers in Afghanistan as there were road users in Australia, there would be a tonne more dead soldiers.

il padrone wrote:
human909 wrote:Most people if they take things SERIOUSLY enough then they don't make mistakes.

You missed my point about magnitude of consequences :wink:

Humans make mistakes..... always. We all do. It's a part of the human condition. Responsible humans however keep the consequences to a minimum, by concentrating attention on things that matter. Morons do not.


This is spot on.

I am all about getting mad (or fobbing them in) when somebody messes up and it could have had real and dire consequences, especially when the driving style displayed indicates such events occur regularly. But I'm not into crucifying someone for having a brain fade.

I am human, I'm not perfect. I give other humans the courtesy I'd hope to receive when I make a mistake that doesn't have remotely serious consequences for others.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby maestro » Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:14 am

Maybe not applicable to this thread as a court has determined them to be an "idiot" rather than a "moron".

Why you would drive on a footpath past a bus that's "unloading children" is incomprehensible!

http://www.smh.com.au/world/us-driver-ordered-to-wear-idiot-sign-by-court-20121107-28wsy.html
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jasonc » Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:31 am

maestro wrote:Maybe not applicable to this thread as a court has determined them to be an "idiot" rather than a "moron".

Why you would drive on a footpath past a bus that's "unloading children" is incomprehensible!

http://www.smh.com.au/world/us-driver-ordered-to-wear-idiot-sign-by-court-20121107-28wsy.html


that gives me an idea. just like the sex offenders register, have all (convicted) moron motorists have to register their movements..

of course, this would keep quite a few people employeed....
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby lump_a_charcoal » Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:39 am

maestro wrote:Maybe not applicable to this thread as a court has determined them to be an "idiot" rather than a "moron".

Why you would drive on a footpath past a bus that's "unloading children" is incomprehensible!

http://www.smh.com.au/world/us-driver-ordered-to-wear-idiot-sign-by-court-20121107-28wsy.html



[youtube]http://youtu.be/Yvj_acGhbPk[/youtube]
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Marto » Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:29 am

Lukeyboy wrote:Went for a nice bike ride to Mount Nebo and back via Samford. Every car that passed gave more than plenty of room, a couple trucks gave a friendly toot from a distance back to let me know they were passing and some 4WD group with vic number plates blasted passed but still with some clearence. Ride back into Brisbane and suddenly the d***head drivers are out in force. As I'm coming to a stop at the intersection outside Ferny Grove Station some guy in a ute locks it up before the red lights. A few minutes later heading through Enoggera Park some stupid P plater thought he'd drive thru the intersection just as I was about to go flying thru at 50kph. I slam on the brakes and literally just miss t-boning dordling fool. I guess he didn't have the patience of waiting that extra couple seconds for me to go past. Just as I get off the bikeway heading thru the Edinburgh Castle Road roundabout another fool decides to try and beat me even through I had the right of way and was already using the roundabout but as he tries to get ahead realises that I'm moving pretty fast. His window was down so I yelled at him. The whole time i was looking at the driver and he kept his head looking straight ahead not looking at me on purpose but driving wide to get ahead. Must have looked in his mirror to see where I was as he ended up almost driving over the road island and into the car waiting there. Riding through Chermside with the green light and a ped decides to step out on the red. And just as I'm at the roundabout to access my street I'm as I enter the roundabout and intercating what way I want to go this time a woman decides to try to beat me and cut me off in the process. Floored it to get ahead, slowed down again to make the turn off down the hill and then she decides to brake check me before braking heavily again to turn off into a side street. Seriously something has to be done about these idiots :roll:


That is about par for the course for Brisbane drivers. That might sound like I am downplaying the situation, but I'm not don't think it will improve real soon, so stupid, dangerous and unpredictable behaviour is too be expected. When you are cycling and see a motorist who has several options for how to drive in a situation, think of the most dangerous, unpredictable and inconsiderate option, and that is probably what they will do.

You might get a good run of motorist behaviour, and think things are on the up, but it is good to keep in mind that dangerous behaviour might occur anytime. It is scary to read Moron Motorist threads, and incident reports, but it does prompt you to keep up your awareness in traffic (and consider situations and responses you haven't encountered yet).
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby InTheWoods » Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:20 am

Marto wrote: It is scary to read Moron Motorist threads, and incident reports, but it does prompt you to keep up your awareness in traffic (and consider situations and responses you haven't encountered yet).


+1 Actually that is the main reason why I like the MM thread, because it lets me see things that haven't happened directly to me ... yet. Or come up with ways to reduce the chances of it happening in the first place.

Although I'd say the majority of Brisbane motorists (ie >50%) are ok, it would be unfair to say most of them will "probably" do the wrong thing in any situation. I ride as if they *might* do something silly but the majority of the time they don't. It may also be related to my route, but most of my problems are due to actual aggressiveness than simply not caring/paying attention etc. I've only had 2 SMIDSYs in recent memory, one of those I was expecting as I was hiding behind the car's "A" pillar (no excuse (I always check behind my pillars when driving) ... but predictable), and the other was a tricky situation where most drivers (me included) would not have seen the bike even though they needed to give way to it (so I'm aware of that particular place now).
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby find_bruce » Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:20 pm

maestro wrote:Maybe not applicable to this thread as a court has determined them to be an "idiot" rather than a "moron".

Why you would drive on a footpath past a bus that's "unloading children" is incomprehensible!

http://www.smh.com.au/world/us-driver-ordered-to-wear-idiot-sign-by-court-20121107-28wsy.html

But the really sad part is that in 30 days she will be back driving - I was going to say "on the road" but that was the problem in the first place.

Anyone who is so llacking in judgement shouldn't be allowed out of the house without adult supervision.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby lammy » Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:27 pm

I am shocked!... but not by the videos.

As a daily commuter I must becoming numb to moron motorists. I see dumb stuff like that every day now, drivers cutting me up, beeping horns, forcing me into the gutters and almost side swiping me out. Only very occasionally do I remember really stupid incidents, its those really close calls I only seem to register now. Thats pretty sad innit.

I would love to get a helmet or handlebar camera which is small and discreet, they all seem so large. Any suggestions? That said if I showed my wife a typical ride to work she would freak and ban me from my bike lol.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby InTheWoods » Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:37 pm

lammy wrote:I would love to get a helmet or handlebar camera which is small and discreet, they all seem so large. Any suggestions? That said if I showed my wife a typical ride to work she would freak and ban me from my bike lol.


See the video camera threads but the Jumbo 808 #11 type cameras (see ebay) are very discreet.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Lukeyboy » Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:43 pm

Oh I agree with you. Brisbane has some pretty dead stick drivers out there. I always play it safe when it comes to traffic but damn some of the drivers I've come across recently are just plain out of it. Most of the time I reckon they just don't understand how much distance and speed some cyclists can quickly cover and do, want to beat the traffic, just plain think they are faster than any cyclist because they are in a car with a motor or just plain don't give a damn as they are in a box surrounded by plastic and metal and I'm on a bike. All of those instances except the ped and the ute I wasn't expecting. The two roundabout cases both cars were breaking and slowing right down as I was already in the roundabout and then gunning it at the last minute infront of me forcing me to go right up the inside of the roundabout (The one close to home I didn't even brake once I got close to the inside as there was a crash not too long ago and there was oil and cement dust left over on the inside). The P plater still remained stopped for a couple seconds after all the cars had went through so I thought he saw me so I get back into the aero position and then he just starts to pull out as i'm about ~35m from the middle of the intersection (Whatever the distance is in the middle between the broken line and solid line heading east in the left hand lane) going about 50kph down hill which only takes about what just a tad over 2 seconds at the most to cover. Maybe they should introduce more awarness in regards to cyclists during driving exams/tests. It might not do anything short term but long term if drivers understand what cyclists are capable of they won't do such stupid and risky things infront of them.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby thomashouseman » Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:49 pm

Can I suggest for safetys sake, not to zoom through intersections at 50km/h even if you do have right of way?
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Undertow » Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:41 pm

thomashouseman wrote:Can I suggest for safetys sake, not to zoom through intersections at 50km/h even if you do have right of way?


Do you "zoom" through intersections at 50km/h in a car when you have right of way? Would you even class it as zooming?

Can I suggest for safetys sake that you never leave your house? Actually a plane might fall on it, just to be safe you should live in a bomb shelter that you never leave.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby thomashouseman » Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:51 pm

Sure do, but I have much better brakes in my car and I'm surrounded by a big steel cage with lots of safety features like seatbelts, airbags, crumple zones etc. and I'm a lot easier target to see as well. On a bicycle, it only takes a moment's inattention by a driver and your squashed all over the road.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Lukeyboy » Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:00 pm

thomashouseman wrote:Can I suggest for safetys sake, not to zoom through intersections at 50km/h even if you do have right of way?


If i was zooming through I'd be pushing 80kph :P The intersection is in a 60kph zone at the bottom of a hill with great visibility of all lanes into the intersection. Patricks Road is a single lane road that constantly has an up and down elevation with cars that usually park on both inside shoulders. You can either ride slower in the door zone/ripples in the road/gas covers/manhole cover areas with cars passing close by at 50-60kph or match the speed limit close as possible and take up more of the lane out of those zones. There isn't much choice considering the next intersection if you want to go right as you now have cars doing 50-60kph on the inside breaking for the shops and for a left turn only up ahead, the far right hand lane also has cars braking for the shops on the right and the middle lane/eventually the far right hand lane again takes all the traffic wanting to go right doing 60kph while just tapping the brakes for a right turn only. I wouldn't like to be stuck in the middle lane doing 30kph with cars left, right and behind still doing 60kph along a 230m stretch of road.

In my experience from using that road its best to stick to within 10kph of the speed limit from the top of the final hill (people cut into the left lane as people sometimes turn right) and then keeping to the speed limit as much as possible to claim the whole lane to avoid someone rear ending you in the left lane and eventually the middle lane as I've seen it almost happen to others on a few occassions before when they get caught out by the speed of traffic with the left and right only turns and once came across one downed rider (asked a bystander about what happened and apparently he was doing ~30kph on the left side in the middle lane and got clipped by someone changing from the left lane to the middle lane as the driver was unsighted because of the nature of the road and speed difference between them and the cyclist). If the rider doesn't feel comftable at maintaining speed with greens then by all means turn left at the intersection, use the footpaths, lights or even ride though the shop parkling lots to access the bikeway. Otherwise I say keep to the speed limit as much as possible.

But that's just me :P
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby thomashouseman » Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:58 pm

Fair enough, but it'd still freak me out ever time I saw a car approaching that intersection... will he see me or won't he?! EEEk!!!
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby il padrone » Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:03 pm

Lukeyboy wrote: I wouldn't like to be stuck in the middle lane doing 30kph with cars left, right and behind still doing 60kph along a 230m stretch of road

Why ever not??

You may need to take a more pro-active role in claiming your lane - sit in the middle leading up to the turn (if turning right), any vehicles overtaking can look after themselves in the other lane. I had a look at this Patricks Rd on Google Streetview, it does not look to be anything too diabolical really.

Watch this technique (in the USA so reverse left and right) from about 0:40 onwards
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Lukeyboy » Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:10 pm

il padrone wrote:
Lukeyboy wrote: I wouldn't like to be stuck in the middle lane doing 30kph with cars left, right and behind still doing 60kph along a 230m stretch of road

Why ever not??


Because all it takes is one person to change lanes at the speed limit to come flying into the back of me which has happened before (Not to me. 3 that I've heard of + 1 I've come across) along that ~230-250m section of road. Even on that video the silver BMW slows down and the black Escelade darts out to the right behind it (AT) 1.04. How would that be any different than someone braking to enter the shops on the left or a bus slowing down for its stop and have the car behind change lanes and then run up my backside or the driver wanted to go right instead of the left only so they change lanes with no traffic behind maintaining the 60kph limit only to run up my dordling backside because they were unsighted and I was going slower. You wouldn't think that someone would run into the back of me at a stop sign in a shopping centre carpark. Have someone in a car lock up the brakes behind me and dart off to the side just missing me in a marked bike lane or having someone reverse towards me at a set of red lights. You think that wouldn't happen but they all have happened to me. When I claim lanes I stick to the signed speed limit and park myself directly in the middle with a reasonable gap to any traffic in front. If you can't ride a bike fast enough in a 60kph zone in the middle lane of a built up area and then claim the lane (abeit riding to the left or bang in the middle) they shouldn't even be on that section of road in the first place. In Queensland its legal to ride on the footpath. Either try to match the speed of the traffic around you/posted speed limit or find a new route through that area/ride along the footpath to rejoin futher up the road instead of dordling blind in the middle lane.

It's a pretty simple road most of the time but when you start to have cars stopping and turning right on thru lanes, buses stopping on the left thru lanes, traffic building up on thur lanes to turn left/right, traffic entering/exiting the shopping centre and with the left only/right only lanes it starts to get dicey as traffic suddenly treats the blocked lanes like chicanes to get past or to be in the correct lane flooring it to get the green light.
Last edited by Lukeyboy on Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:35 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby il padrone » Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:22 pm

Lukeyboy wrote:If you can't ride a bike fast enough in a 60kph zone in the middle lane of a built up area.

Gee, mate, why aren't you on Green Edge ??
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Lukeyboy » Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:29 pm

il padrone wrote:
Lukeyboy wrote:If you can't ride a bike fast enough in a 60kph zone in the middle lane of a built up area.

Gee, mate, why aren't you on Green Edge ??


Missed the application date :lol: :lol:
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Ross » Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:29 am

il padrone wrote:
Lukeyboy wrote: I wouldn't like to be stuck in the middle lane doing 30kph with cars left, right and behind still doing 60kph along a 230m stretch of road

Why ever not??

You may need to take a more pro-active role in claiming your lane - sit in the middle leading up to the turn (if turning right), any vehicles overtaking can look after themselves in the other lane. I had a look at this Patricks Rd on Google Streetview, it does not look to be anything too diabolical really.

Watch this technique (in the USA so reverse left and right) from about 0:40 onwards


Wow. Why does the cyclist at the beginning of the clip "claim the lane" when theree is a perfectly good debris/car free cycle lane next to him? Luckily there doesn't seem to be a lot of traffic around and the motorists don't seem overly concerned about it (no audio but there doesn't appear to be any agression or close shaves) and of course there are other lanes for them to use, but still...
And then a bit later on in the clip the cyclist signals left and changes lane without a head check! He may have a mirror (I couldn't see one) but I would of thought a head check would be a mandantory safety thing. Would be for me. He does do a head check later in the clip when he decides to move left into the cycle lane for a while (but then changes out again with no head check!).
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