Moron Motorists #3

open topic, for anything cycling related.

Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby elantra » Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:09 am

il padrone wrote:I normally have a pretty blissful commute (well as blissful as you can expect in Melbourne peak suburban traffic), and few real issues. But today was a ripper..... and I have no camera to record it.

First one AM commute.......................

Second one PM commute. This was a doozy. I am riding along on a two-lane each way undivided road, coming up a slight rise towards some traffic lights. I ride the middle of the lane here, it's way too narrow to tempt drivers to 'share'. Suddenly a car flashed by what seemed extremely close and fast as well. Heart-in-mouth stuff. I catch up at the lights and look at the driver with a serious, peeved look. The response is one of "What was wrong?" (I really think he knew he was too close, despite what eventuated) Discussion ensued there along the lines of "Why were you riding so wide?" etc. I suggested he read the road rules, and met an angry response. I did take out the phone with a view to photographing the rego, and read it out to recall it. The lights went green at this stage and he said "Pull over down the road and we can talk about this". Riding on I thought I'd just ride past, but he was out of the car and very angry. Pulling over and getting off the bike was probably safer than a push as I went by, or a chasing hot-head. For a few minutes I really did think he was going to start bashing me, the temper was very high, so I got out the phone and dialled 000. Kind of silly perhaps but this was shaping up to be road-rage. I was not going to get into any further confrontational stuff.

Police took all details and were concerned that I was safe, then advised a car would be on its way. I waited nearby, and tried to avoid interacting with the driver - he was very keen to talk to the police too. Anyway, long-story-short, he spoke of how he was a cyclist and rode in the MS Ride yesterday. He could not understand how I could think riding in the centre of the lane was safe, that the organisers of the MS Ride emphasised to keep left. I told him about a good friend of mine who has MS and was in the ride with a dozen other friends, and how I didn't ride it because I had done a long ride the day before. Eventually things calmed down and I realised there was no road rage here, so I rang and cancelled the police call-out. The driver freely apologised for any worry he may have caused, maintained he did not think he was very close, but acknowledged he was pushed having just turned out onto the road with other cars coming up behind. Eventually we talked of cycling matters, safe riding techniques, and parted with a hand-shake.
I think this all goes to show that most drivers and many cyclists do not understand the rule on keeping left for cyclists - that it does not apply on multi-lane roads. Bicycle = vehicle, rider = driver.

I think it also shows what you probably already know, people confuse car ownership with road ownership.
I wonder how experienced a rider that guy is.
Certainly needs to brush up on some driving behaviours.
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by BNA » Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:13 am

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby BianchiCam » Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:13 am





Hmmm.....
Contact made to Pauls Milk.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby MisuVir » Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:26 am

Almost had an incident with a tradie in a ute on the way home last night. I was turning right at a roundabout in a suburban side-street. He was approaching from my left. I had already put out my right arm to indicate my turn as I approached the roundabout. As I entered the roundabout, he slowed and gave way... and then tailgated me through my right turn and cut past extremely closely. I gave him a salute and he pulled up on the left side of the road and proceeded to yell at me... except it wasn't the usual "get off the road" diatribe, he was telling me that I should have given a hand signal.

I gave him a wide berth and didn't slow down to chat, as his previous aggressive overtaking manoeuvre was a clear indicator of his knuckle-dragging status and potential behaviour. If I was more largely built, I would have stopped and explained that I DID give a hand signal and that it is completely impractical to continue giving a hand signal as I'm both trying to brake and trying to perform a turn. I would also have mentioned that he was required to give way to traffic already in the roundabout, and that any supposed failure to indicate on my part is NOT an excuse to behave aggressively and threaten me.

The whole thing just didn't make sense - he had already slowed down and was giving way, so why did he get annoyed at me continuing through the roundabout? Completely unnecessary, especially as this was on a quiet suburban backstreet.

/sigh
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jules21 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:32 am

MisuVir wrote:The whole thing just didn't make sense - he had already slowed down and was giving way, so why did he get annoyed at me continuing through the roundabout? Completely unnecessary, especially as this was on a quiet suburban backstreet.

we all know why..
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby BianchiCam » Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:34 am

I kid you not. Not 5 mins after getting in contact with Paul's Milk, I get a call from a concerned employee. Asking a few more details and telling me that the email would be forwarded onward to the appropriate department.
I'm impressed. This is the first ever reply to a complaint. No Agro, just a straightforward conversation.

My faith in humanity has been restored a bit.

Cam
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Tomca74 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:26 pm

I had a few errands in Moorooka and the city today so feeling brave (mainly because it was 10am and traffic had thinned) I hit Ipswich Rd through Moorooka and Annerley and on the climb to Chardons Corner an EL Falcon on the horn shaves me close and as he drives off on the horn I give him the salute. He jumps on the brakes hard and screeches to a stop 100m ahead of me and as he gets out of the car it was apparent someone got lost and looking for a way back to Woodridge. I'm nearly up to him when the fun police in a silver XR6 with hidden blue lights pulls up next to the loganite and order him to pull into the side street at Greg Grants. I follow and the coppers tell me to mind my own and keep moving...........

Bugger, I wanted to see if they were concerned about A) the punishment pass B) the use of the horn or C) for being a road raging dick.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jules21 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:30 pm

Tomca74 wrote:Bugger, I wanted to see if they were concerned about A) the punishment pass B) the use of the horn or C) for being a road raging dick.

what if you got a puncture? :)
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby WarbyD » Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:36 pm

Given that they wanted you gone I would suggest it probably wasn't actually anything to do with you that they were talking to him about.. Might have just caught their eye and realised they needed to have a chat with him about something else when checking rego.. If it was to do with the pass in any way I would have thought they'd at least get your details or want to talk to you too..
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jules21 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:48 pm

WarbyD wrote:If it was to do with the pass in any way I would have thought they'd at least get your details or want to talk to you too..

not necessarily. the cops can issue an infringement for a traffic offence, without testimony from other present parties. technically, you are not the victim of a close pass - you have no status in law associated with the offence. this is different to being punched in the face or having your property stolen, when you are a victim of a crime. i know this after taking up similar traffic complaints with the cops. i think it's a problem.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby WarbyD » Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:49 pm

Fair enough.. and yeah I agree, treating it as though it's a "victimless crime" isn't appropriate IMO.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby cowled » Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:56 pm

BianchiCam wrote:I kid you not. Not 5 mins after getting in contact with Paul's Milk, I get a call from a concerned employee. Asking a few more details and telling me that the email would be forwarded onward to the appropriate department.
I'm impressed. This is the first ever reply to a complaint. No Agro, just a straightforward conversation.

My faith in humanity has been restored a bit.

Cam


A few years ago I had a Paul's milk truckie on the horn and then passing way too close. I knew where there HQ was, so I went straight there and asked for their safety officer. He came out and had a good chat with me. He then committed to issuing a company wide alert about safety around cyclists as well as a Brisbane based toolbox talk. I didn't get the reg plates, but the safety officer did talk to all the drivers to find out who did it. Of course, none of them owned up, but I was very happy with Paul's handling of the incident. I bet they don't want to have anyone's blood on their hands.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby AUbicycles » Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:27 pm

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Ladies and Gentlemen,
A reminder that although many of us are adults and not particularly bothered by colourful language - in this forum we are keeping colourful language (and abbreviations) out of the discussion which lifts the tone and quality. Please also take care about comments which may be insulting.

Thank you
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby maestro » Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:39 pm

MisuVir wrote:Almost had an incident with a tradie in a ute on the way home last night. I was turning right at a roundabout in a suburban side-street. He was approaching from my left. I had already put out my right arm to indicate my turn as I approached the roundabout. As I entered the roundabout, he slowed and gave way... and then tailgated me through my right turn and cut past extremely closely. I gave him a salute and he pulled up on the left side of the road and proceeded to yell at me... except it wasn't the usual "get off the road" diatribe, he was telling me that I should have given a hand signal.

I gave him a wide berth and didn't slow down to chat, as his previous aggressive overtaking manoeuvre was a clear indicator of his knuckle-dragging status and potential behaviour. If I was more largely built, I would have stopped and explained that I DID give a hand signal and that it is completely impractical to continue giving a hand signal as I'm both trying to brake and trying to perform a turn. I would also have mentioned that he was required to give way to traffic already in the roundabout, and that any supposed failure to indicate on my part is NOT an excuse to behave aggressively and threaten me.

The whole thing just didn't make sense - he had already slowed down and was giving way, so why did he get annoyed at me continuing through the roundabout? Completely unnecessary, especially as this was on a quiet suburban backstreet.

/sigh


Road Rule 113 - you need to indicate right when approaching the roundabout. You need to continue to indicate until you are about to leave the roundabout, but only if your vehicle has indicators fitted
Road Rule 118 - You need to indicate when leaving a roundabout, unless your vehicle does not have indicators fitted.

I am assuming that you do not have indicators on your bicycle, therefore you haven't done anything wrong. Whether it is practical has nothing to do with it, you were not required to indicate any more than you say you have.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Cowcorner » Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:15 am

il padrone wrote:Anyway, long-story-short, he spoke of how he was a cyclist and rode in the MS Ride yesterday.


Trust me - judging by the general skill level and road craft I witnessed last Sunday, riding in the MS Melbourne Cycle does not necessarily make one a cyclist. 8)
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Cowcorner » Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:19 pm

Don't know what it is but I seem to get all my "exciting" episodes in a bunch. This on the way home...

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby il padrone » Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:11 am

This is where a rearview mirror is oh so useful. I keep an eye on the mirror when approaching roundabouts. If there are any cars coming up I claim the lane fully before they catch up, and hold this line through the roundabout. Never have any such problems as you suffered.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Laidlaym » Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:22 am

maestro wrote:
Road Rule 113 - you need to indicate right when approaching the roundabout. You need to continue to indicate until you are about to leave the roundabout, but only if your vehicle has indicators fitted
Road Rule 118 - You need to indicate when leaving a roundabout, unless your vehicle does not have indicators fitted.

I am assuming that you do not have indicators on your bicycle, therefore you haven't done anything wrong. Whether it is practical has nothing to do with it, you were not required to indicate any more than you say you have.


Surely rule 118 should say ".....indicate left when leaving a roundabout,......." to make it clear. About 2% of drivers get this right some of the time.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Toolish » Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:45 am

Cowcorner wrote:Don't know what it is but I seem to get all my "exciting" episodes in a bunch. This on the way home...



This is why at least 30m before a round about I attempt to get into the middle of the lane. Don't let drivers try to sneak up like that.

It is my belief that most drivers are not doing it out of spite or anything like that, they just don't see it as a problem. Get in the middle of the lane and you will be right.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Scarfy96 » Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:05 am

^^^ This.

Roundabouts really have to be approached from the centre of the lane, it is the only safe way to do it.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby outnabike » Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:09 am

Laidlaym wrote:
maestro wrote:
Road Rule 113 - you need to indicate right when approaching the roundabout. You need to continue to indicate until you are about to leave the roundabout, but only if your vehicle has indicators fitted
Road Rule 118 - You need to indicate when leaving a roundabout, unless your vehicle does not have indicators fitted.

I am assuming that you do not have indicators on your bicycle, therefore you haven't done anything wrong. Whether it is practical has nothing to do with it, you were not required to indicate any more than you say you have.


Surely rule 118 should say ".....indicate left when leaving a roundabout,......." to make it clear. About 2% of drivers get this right some of the time.

Mark


In this case no one was turning left though and both went straight through. No indicator would have been useful would it? That idiot tried to push the cyclist off the road in his unnecessary rush. :)
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby FatGuts » Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:25 am

il padrone wrote:This is where a rearview mirror is oh so useful. I keep an eye on the mirror when approaching roundabouts. If there are any cars coming up I claim the lane fully before they catch up, and hold this line through the roundabout. Never have any such problems as you suffered.




Yep!
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Laidlaym » Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:26 am

outnabike wrote:
Laidlaym wrote:
maestro wrote:
Road Rule 113 - you need to indicate right when approaching the roundabout. You need to continue to indicate until you are about to leave the roundabout, but only if your vehicle has indicators fitted
Road Rule 118 - You need to indicate when leaving a roundabout, unless your vehicle does not have indicators fitted.

I am assuming that you do not have indicators on your bicycle, therefore you haven't done anything wrong. Whether it is practical has nothing to do with it, you were not required to indicate any more than you say you have.


Surely rule 118 should say ".....indicate left when leaving a roundabout,......." to make it clear. About 2% of drivers get this right some of the time.

Mark


In this case no one was turning left though and both went straight through. No indicator would have been useful would it? That idiot tried to push the cyclist off the road in his unnecessary rush. :)


I did not comment on any specific incident, just the rule.

Mark
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby WarbyD » Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:51 am

il padrone wrote:This is where a rearview mirror is oh so useful. I keep an eye on the mirror when approaching roundabouts. If there are any cars coming up I claim the lane fully before they catch up, and hold this line through the roundabout. Never have any such problems as you suffered.


Quickly learned to do the same and love my mirror for this especially!

In fact, you know padrone.. I am going to eat humble pie with regard to some of the conversations I have had with you about road positioning. I am finding the more "selfish" I behave as a cyclist the better my experience is with other road users..

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby bychosis » Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:02 am

It's not selfish, but assertive.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby outnabike » Fri Feb 28, 2014 11:11 am

Mark[/quote]


I did not comment on any specific incident, just the rule.

Mark[/quote]

No problem, I was just disagreeing in that in this vision they both left the roundabout, but I cannot see the need for a signal when folks are going straight through. :)
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