Moron Motorists #3

open topic, for anything cycling related.

Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby il padrone » Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:06 pm

Paul B wrote:Not silly at all. I am speaking from what I have seen and experienced over a number of years.

I can add thaat I have experienced bus drivers as some of the more considerate drivers on the roads. On my commute they always give me a lane space when passing. It has not always been the case, but in the past 5-6 years things have improved.... lots.

So where does that leave us with the generalisation??
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
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by BNA » Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:14 pm

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Kraeg » Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:14 pm

Bus drivers around my area are pretty good (some are also cyclists).

I'm not sure Paul B. and warthog1 were generalising, as they did write "some": "Some of the worst arrogance is shown by bus drivers" (i.e., some is shown by non-bus drivers), and "Some of them are up there with the worst" (i.e., some of them are up there with the best).
Or perhaps they meant to generalise and the word they were looking for was "most"?
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Dragster1 » Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:38 pm

Kraeg wrote:Bus drivers around my area are pretty good (some are also cyclists).

I'm not sure Paul B. and warthog1 were generalising, as they did write "some": "Some of the worst arrogance is shown by bus drivers" (i.e., some is shown by non-bus drivers), and "Some of them are up there with the worst" (i.e., some of them are up there with the best).
Or perhaps they meant to generalise and the word they were looking for was "most"?

Well I can add to the Brisbane bus drivers, I ride past a bus depot most days and they drive like your not there. They have pulled out in front of me on many occasions and even squeezed me into a gutter. Im sure they have some ill feeling about cyclists. Can agree with some of the "worst arrogance"
Last edited by Dragster1 on Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Mulger bill » Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:45 pm

il padrone wrote:
Paul B wrote:Not silly at all. I am speaking from what I have seen and experienced over a number of years.

I can add thaat I have experienced bus drivers as some of the more considerate drivers on the roads. On my commute they always give me a lane space when passing. It has not always been the case, but in the past 5-6 years things have improved.... lots.

So where does that leave us with the generalisation??


You've never met a Skybus have you Pete?
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby il padrone » Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:01 pm

No I have not Shaun.

Does not reduce my point, which is that the murderous bus-driver is a generalisation...... a bit like the lycra louts running red lights. Neither is valid.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Lukeyboy » Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:03 pm

In Brisbane I find the buses running out of different depots tend to have very different attitudes. Drivers from Eagle Farm and Virginia depots tend to be pretty courteous towards most cyclists (not sure if it's because I see a few cyclists riding into and out of those depots making the culture a bit more bike friendly) compared to when I have ridden in areas with buses from other depots ie southside and Oxley bound. But just as you let your guard down that's when the joker appears from either the Eagle Farm or the Virginia deopt and squeezes you out into a curb.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby warthog1 » Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:05 pm

MisuVir wrote:
warthog1 wrote:
Paul B wrote:Some of the worst arrogance is shown by bus drivers. They treat all other road users with contempt.

Some of them are up there with the worst.


Silly statements. You could say the same thing about cyclists, pedestrians, dog-walkers, and elderly ladies. :P


Well it is a broad statement. Fair enough. I have had some recent close shaves by bus drivers. One resulted in me confronting him at the next stop and subsequently visiting his employer. I find some of them aggressive and impatient. I understand they have schedules but they also have a duty of care to other road users.


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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby elantra » Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:37 pm

Ross wrote:Just went for a drive to my local supermarket to pick up some bananas in prepearation for a ride tomorrow. It's about a 15mins drive (CBF lycraing up to ride plus roads were wet). Get there without any dramas except when I drive into the underground car park there is a MM in a LandBruiser coming straight at me the wrong way in a one way aisle. There's a 2 metre long yellow arrow painted painted on the ground but apparently that doesn't apply to this MM. I stand my ground even though I only have a small Mazda and force MM to swerve around me. No acknowledgement by them that they were doing anything wrong. Just business as usual for them.

Go into supermarket and buy my bananas and then get back in car and proceed to drive out. There is a concrete ramp leading out of the carpark onto the road that's maybe 100m long and 10% or so gradient. I start to follow this girl in a Hyundai up the ramp. Halfway up she stops and then starts to roll back. I stop then she rolls back some more. So I roll back a car length and then she rolls back more, nearly hitting my car. So we end up rolling right back down to the flat section at the bottom and a vehicle behind me has to reverse back as well, just because this MM can't do the most basic of basic car control manoeuvers - a hill start. Even if her handbrake didn't work (which it damn well should) it really is very basic to take off up the hill just using the accellerator and the clutch. How this girl ever got a licence is totally beyond me. I wonder what else she can't do in the car?

Well thats the problem isn't it.
Getting a drivers licence is way too easy.
Raise the driving age. Or the drinking age. Or both.

Seriously, the logbook route to getting a driver's licence in Queensland is a joke.
It teaches young people that they can get away with fraud.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby myforwik » Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:58 pm

Lukeyboy wrote:In Brisbane I find the buses running out of different depots tend to have very different attitudes. Drivers from Eagle Farm and Virginia depots tend to be pretty courteous towards most cyclists (not sure if it's because I see a few cyclists riding into and out of those depots making the culture a bit more bike friendly) compared to when I have ridden in areas with buses from other depots ie southside and Oxley bound. But just as you let your guard down that's when the joker appears from either the Eagle Farm or the Virginia deopt and squeezes you out into a curb.


South side bus drivers are the worst by far.

Complete ignorance of road rules, beeping you to get out of bus lanes etc.

I have endless issues with a single clarks bus that passes me. The driver refuses to move to the right lane, which is empty, and makes a point I believe as passing as close as possible, especially if I am claiming the lane. He does this on a 2 lane road almost every day is empty. I decided to be patient and wait for the 1m rule to come so at least he will actually be fined.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Aushiker » Sat Mar 29, 2014 5:16 pm

If you are bored ... you can vote on whether Summerknight was in the wrong or not at this car website ... I am sure they would appreciate the interest :)

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby lobstermash » Sat Mar 29, 2014 7:23 pm

I love how their highly intelligent readership have mostly voted that it was the cyclist's fault, in spite of the article quoting a policeman saying she was entitled to be there and the article pointing out that dooring is an offence...
Passing on your right - me, said just about never...
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby biker jk » Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:09 pm

lobstermash wrote:I love how their highly intelligent readership have mostly voted that it was the cyclist's fault, in spite of the article quoting a policeman saying she was entitled to be there and the article pointing out that dooring is an offence...


Stupid is as stupid does. To quote Forest Gump's mother.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Mulger bill » Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:45 pm

Aushiker wrote:If you are bored ... you can vote on whether Summerknight was in the wrong or not at this car website ... I am sure they would appreciate the interest :)

Andrew

Thanks Andrew, voted and sent off a few messages too.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby wellington_street » Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:32 pm

I like yes/no votes on facts. Shows who really is a moron
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Ross » Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:28 am

Drink driver caught three times in five hours

http://www.police.act.gov.au/media-cent ... hours.aspx
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby biker jk » Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:59 am

Ross wrote:Drink driver caught three times in five hours

http://www.police.act.gov.au/media-cent ... hours.aspx


Just goes to show how stupid the law is when the police should be permitted to impound the vehicle after a first offence of high range drink driving. A bit like the anti-hoon laws where 3,300 "drivers" have avoided having the car impounded because it's registered in another name (usually grandparents).
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby bychosis » Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:20 am

At the very least he needed locking up until sober after the second.
bychosis (bahy-koh-sis): A mental disorder of delusions indicating impaired contact with a reality of no bicycles.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Summernight » Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:00 am

cp123 wrote:Can I ask a question - summer - did mr fat grumpy businessman in a pink tie ever get charged with anything? Did he ever personally contact you and say sorry - not the "i'm sorry I behaved the way I did" which means its completely passive and fake.


The ~$350 dooring fine is apparently winging its way in the mail to him. The police told me they investigated all the other road rule/criminal offences in addition to the dooring offence that might be applicable (ie. hit and run etc.) but they told me these rules refer to the 'driver' of the vehicle only (see 287 of the Road Rules) and therefore the passenger who caused the issue cannot be fined for said offences and if the police tried this it would be thrown out of court. They are also not taking him to court for the steeper dooring penalty (although he may choose to object to the fine and it'll go to court that way).

Which is a major hole in the law, IMO, being as the taxi driver isn't the one who caused the problem (in this case anyway) and the dooring legislation DOES apply to passengers instead of just drivers. And because I wasn't seriously injured they aren't looking any further.

If anyone wants to waste some time on the Vic Road Rules or Vic Crimes Act and point out a relevant section that might apply I'd be interested. (eg. section 18 Crimes Act - causing injury intentionally or recklessly???).

No personal contact (although the police did tell me due to privacy laws they wouldn't be able to tell him my details anyway if he were minded to make such an apology).

According to the police he is an ordinary, affable bloke who isn't a cyclist hater. Which is pretty much the case with most incidents - regular ordinary people who are frustrated by certain things, don't understand the correct road rules or just don't bother to look and thereby do something they shouldn't.

To get reimbursed the <$100 for the repair of my damaged bike I have to make a FOI application or something to get his details and then go through the civil claims process for reimbursement.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby wellington_street » Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:17 am

Not good :(
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Percrime » Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:19 am

I 'think' I would go through a lawyer for that. And of course he should get stuck with the lawyer cost on top of that. Try Slater and Gordon... they will very likely be interested in no win no fee chasing that through for you. They may actually have a genuine social interest in pursuing this sort of thing.. they certainly advertise in motorcycling forums to this effect... and I would be very interested in the response. At this point I don,t think you can let it go.

I have to agree with you about the hole in the law. Makes me wonder what the legal situation might be if I for example released the handbrake on a parked car from the passenger seat (as opposed to the driver seat) or banged it into drive and ran someone down. Would I be exempt as a passenger?
Last edited by Percrime on Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jasonc » Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:20 am

Summernight wrote:To get reimbursed the <$100 for the repair of my damaged bike I have to make a FOI application or something to get his details and then go through the civil claims process for reimbursement.


doing it out of principle?
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby maestro » Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:21 am

Summernight wrote:The ~$350 dooring fine is apparently winging its way in the mail to him. The police told me they investigated all the other road rule/criminal offences in addition to the dooring offence that might be applicable (ie. hit and run etc.) but they told me these rules refer to the 'driver' of the vehicle only (see 287 of the Road Rules) and therefore the passenger who caused the issue cannot be fined for said offences and if the police tried this it would be thrown out of court. They are also not taking him to court for the steeper dooring penalty (although he may choose to object to the fine and it'll go to court that way).

Excellent result... Particularly after he stubbornly avoided any admission of wrongdoing on the dooring when he was interviewed later, and quite ironic that the only thing he admitted doing wrong isn't, apparently, illegal!

Summernight wrote:To get reimbursed the <$100 for the repair of my damaged bike I have to make a FOI application or something to get his details and then go through the civil claims process for reimbursement.

Either that, or you can track him down yourself. You could probably just send an email to the toy company, it wouldn't be in his interest to ignore it considering the small amount of money involved and the possible damage to his reputation if he refuses, especially after being fined.
Also, it might be possible to recover any costs involved with FOI from him, although I have vague memories of other threads in here where people have persisted with the police and found that they were able to get details without an FOI request.

Good luck
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Percrime » Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:40 am

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby antigee » Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:33 pm

on a lighter note....

out for sunday afternoon ride on minor road approaching a major road - car passes and stays to right indicating right at the giveway

I move out to "take the lane" on his inside to go straight ahead - car forces way past through too narrow gap indicating left (BMW/Mini for those that like to stereotype drivers) but has to stop at giveway on inside of first car

car indicating right then turns left into the Mini on its inside

oh how I laughed and left them to sort it out - might have laughed a bit harder if hadn't shown such bad driving skills by both parties
plus count myself lucky I wasn't on the inside of the driver that changed his mind
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Percrime » Mon Mar 31, 2014 2:38 pm

I would have laughed and taken pics.
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