Moron Motorists #3

open topic, for anything cycling related.

Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby London Boy » Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:04 pm

Summernight wrote:The ~$350 dooring fine is apparently winging its way in the mail to him. The police told me they investigated all the other road rule/criminal offences in addition to the dooring offence that might be applicable (ie. hit and run etc.) but they told me these rules refer to the 'driver' of the vehicle only (see 287 of the Road Rules) and therefore the passenger who caused the issue cannot be fined for said offences and if the police tried this it would be thrown out of court. They are also not taking him to court for the steeper dooring penalty (although he may choose to object to the fine and it'll go to court that way).

If anyone wants to waste some time on the Vic Road Rules or Vic Crimes Act and point out a relevant section that might apply I'd be interested. (eg. section 18 Crimes Act - causing injury intentionally or recklessly???).

Ok, so it's s269(3) for the dooring. You might also get the other passengers under s269(1) for getting out of a moving vehicle. You might get away with that, just depending on the police attitude to testing it in court.

Try also s265 "A passenger in or on a motor vehicle that is moving, or that is stationary but not parked, must [...] wear the seatbelt properly adjusted and fastened". I'd like to see them do that while getting out of the cab. That would go for all three passengers.

And if they argue the cab was parked, then the driver has committed an offence because it was a no stopping area, see s167.

I'd also want to know about when these guys paid the fare. If the cab driver was taking payment immediately before they got out, then s297 seems relevant, "A driver must not drive a vehicle unless the driver has proper control of the vehicle". You don't have that when you're reading a meter or fiddling with change. I'd guess you use the same logic as for mobile phones. You can't use them even if you are held up in traffic.

Summernight wrote:To get reimbursed the <$100 for the repair of my damaged bike I have to make a FOI application or something to get his details and then go through the civil claims process for reimbursement.

Have you tried the taxi driver's insurer? Otherwise it would be a letter of demand to the passenger who opened the door.
User avatar
London Boy
 
Posts: 603
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:43 pm

by BNA » Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:33 pm

BNA
 

Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Dragster1 » Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:33 pm

London Boy wrote:
Summernight wrote:The ~$350 dooring fine is apparently winging its way in the mail to him. The police told me they investigated all the other road rule/criminal offences in addition to the dooring offence that might be applicable (ie. hit and run etc.) but they told me these rules refer to the 'driver' of the vehicle only (see 287 of the Road Rules) and therefore the passenger who caused the issue cannot be fined for said offences and if the police tried this it would be thrown out of court. They are also not taking him to court for the steeper dooring penalty (although he may choose to object to the fine and it'll go to court that way).

If anyone wants to waste some time on the Vic Road Rules or Vic Crimes Act and point out a relevant section that might apply I'd be interested. (eg. section 18 Crimes Act - causing injury intentionally or recklessly???).

Ok, so it's s269(3) for the dooring. You might also get the other passengers under s269(1) for getting out of a moving vehicle. You might get away with that, just depending on the police attitude to testing it in court.

Try also s265 "A passenger in or on a motor vehicle that is moving, or that is stationary but not parked, must [...] wear the seatbelt properly adjusted and fastened". I'd like to see them do that while getting out of the cab. That would go for all three passengers.

And if they argue the cab was parked, then the driver has committed an offence because it was a no stopping area, see s167.

I'd also want to know about when these guys paid the fare. If the cab driver was taking payment immediately before they got out, then s297 seems relevant, "A driver must not drive a vehicle unless the driver has proper control of the vehicle". You don't have that when you're reading a meter or fiddling with change. I'd guess you use the same logic as for mobile phones. You can't use them even if you are held up in traffic.

Summernight wrote:To get reimbursed the <$100 for the repair of my damaged bike I have to make a FOI application or something to get his details and then go through the civil claims process for reimbursement.

Have you tried the taxi driver's insurer? Otherwise it would be a letter of demand to the passenger who opened the door.

I think you are onto something here
User avatar
Dragster1
 
Posts: 983
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:46 pm
Location: Eluding motorist in Brisbane

Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Percrime » Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:52 pm

I dont. The cab driver specifically warned them to not get out. He has been on side completely. And could not have done more. You have no chance against a cab insurance company where they can raise doubt... these are not beginners at the dealing with accidents business and you will have put them seriously off side in this case. Its even possible that the cab driver can produce video showing a twenty shoved at him.. him telling the passengers to not get out and them then getting out. If it had been me I would have saved that video. There seems to me no chance of winning against the cab driver. And trying will pretty much guarantee no cab driver being helpful again.
Percrime
 
Posts: 974
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:41 am

Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby AUbicycles » Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:06 pm

You may need a lot of luck claiming from the taxi driver.

Back to moron motorists, my bus driver on the Northern beaches this evening must have got out of bed on the wrong side and demonstrated significant frustration with cyclists riding legally who didn't actually hold up traffic. Thankfully didn't appear to convert his anger in a way to disrupt ot intimidate the cyclist.
User avatar
AUbicycles
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 9132
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:14 am
Location: Sydney

Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby find_bruce » Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:48 pm

Had a lovely quiet week or so. This afternoon's moron, overtakes across an unbroken line, into the face of oncoming traffic before immediately having to jump on the brakes as the lane he wants to be in is stopped just 50 m later
Image
Image
User avatar
find_bruce
 
Posts: 3728
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 8:42 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby il padrone » Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:12 pm

Plumbers van



Intellectual powerhouses of boganville :roll: :|
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 18388
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby trailgumby » Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:49 pm

Summernight wrote:The ~$350 dooring fine is apparently winging its way in the mail to him. The police told me they investigated all the other road rule/criminal offences in addition to the dooring offence that might be applicable (ie. hit and run etc.) but they told me these rules refer to the 'driver' of the vehicle only (see 287 of the Road Rules) and therefore the passenger who caused the issue cannot be fined for said offences and if the police tried this it would be thrown out of court. They are also not taking him to court for the steeper dooring penalty (although he may choose to object to the fine and it'll go to court that way).

If anyone wants to waste some time on the Vic Road Rules or Vic Crimes Act and point out a relevant section that might apply I'd be interested. (eg. section 18 Crimes Act - causing injury intentionally or recklessly???).

Great outcome summernight. Once he gets the fine, I'd send him a letter of demand care of his work address. That should be sufficient, given that he has outed himself in the public domain.
"People have a right to their own opinions, but not their own facts. Evidence must be located, not created, and opinions not backed by evidence cannot be given much weight." -- James W Loewen

http://www.facebook.com/Drive2WorkDay
User avatar
trailgumby
 
Posts: 10305
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:30 pm
Location: Northern Beaches, Sydney

Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby warthog1 » Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:49 pm

I don't think its ethical to claim against the taxi driver even if possible. He was a good guy from what I read.


Blame tapatalk
User avatar
warthog1
 
Posts: 2834
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:40 pm

Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby trailgumby » Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:52 pm

warthog1 wrote:I don't think its ethical to claim against the taxi driver even if possible. He was a good guy from what I read.
Blame tapatalk

I'm pretty sure summer isn't intending to do that. I certainly wouldn't be wanting to punish him in that way for his helpfulness.
"People have a right to their own opinions, but not their own facts. Evidence must be located, not created, and opinions not backed by evidence cannot be given much weight." -- James W Loewen

http://www.facebook.com/Drive2WorkDay
User avatar
trailgumby
 
Posts: 10305
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:30 pm
Location: Northern Beaches, Sydney

Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby warthog1 » Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:53 pm

No I didn't get the feeling she was. The suggestion didn't come from her.


Blame tapatalk
User avatar
warthog1
 
Posts: 2834
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:40 pm

Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby London Boy » Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:12 pm

Percrime wrote:I dont. The cab driver specifically warned them to not get out. He has been on side completely. And could not have done more. You have no chance against a cab insurance company where they can raise doubt... these are not beginners at the dealing with accidents business and you will have put them seriously off side in this case. Its even possible that the cab driver can produce video showing a twenty shoved at him.. him telling the passengers to not get out and them then getting out. If it had been me I would have saved that video. There seems to me no chance of winning against the cab driver. And trying will pretty much guarantee no cab driver being helpful again.

I'd like to see that video. But all that aside, are you quoting facts or suppositions? I ask mostly because I keep receiving advice from credible sources that insurers frequently pay out when there is doubt as to liability. This seems to relate to some kind of business logic, I'd guess cost avoidance.

Regardless of that, you can relax. It was an off the cuff comment, made on the basis that insurers are almost always worth a look whether or not you actually end up making a claim. It is what the are for...
User avatar
London Boy
 
Posts: 603
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:43 pm

Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby malnar » Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:57 am

Bloke on the shared path approaching me riding an internal combustion engine-powered bicycle towing a kiddie carrier trailer. He was doing about 35 ks & didn't slow down or deviate his line. No helmet. Head like a moron's. Noisy and stinky vehicle.
malnar
 
Posts: 240
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 2:46 pm
Location: Melb - Werribee - City

Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Percrime » Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:28 am

All my experience with cab companies is 10 years out of date. Most cab companies (well big owners really) self insure .. are REALLY good at holding a grudge... have tame panel shops and as a general rule can make money while the car is off the road cos of an accident. They know when you have a case and they know when you are bluffing. And they really really know how to play hardball if they are pi$$ed off.

In my time driving cabs I destroyed more cars than you have driven. I think one or two taps were actually my fault. But I wrote off at least a half dozen in completely not at fault accidents. And I think every one of those made my owner money. I dealt with a bunch more accidents involving other cabs. We had stuff happen like.. Semi over cab parked out the front of my house. Swerve to miss a car coming out of side street through stop sign at 70 kph on wet road.. just clipped him.. cab spun and while traveling backwards was hit on the nose by the navarre following it. Drunk overtaking across double white lines 100 metres away in 90 zone Rear ended at high speed by land cruiser in bumper to bumper traffic at 9:00 pm friday night in Chapel st (That one ended in a punch up) Rear ended at high speed while parked at Glenroy cab rank. She wanted me charged. Etc Etc.

I had the identical accident while driving a cab actually. I warned the passenger ... he opened the door anyway. the cyclist swore at him... picked himself up and rode off. The passenger started mouthing off about cyclists. I ummm. It ended in a punch up. I won. And I got paid
Percrime
 
Posts: 974
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:41 am

Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Summernight » Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:49 am

Thanks guys, the comments are appreciated.

The taxi driver was helpful and I believe him when he said what he said at the time about warning them from getting out at that spot. When I was speaking to the police they said that technically they could charge the driver with a few offences relating to letting out passengers in the wrong spot or something but the police and I were in agreement that he seems to have done everything right and it wasn't his fault. It's not as if he can lock the doors and prevent passengers from getting out (apparently that can be done in London).

My silly motorist this morning was the under 16 year old boy on the electric motorbike-thing without a licence plate riding on the peak hour road at about 25kph (in a 60 zone so at least the speed difference wasn't too great). The motorbike was a tiny green thing with mirrors, indicators and everything motorbike-y (except it didn't look like it had those bike pedals or a place to rest his feet). He was in the left lane of a busy two lane street hugging the gutter and then he moved across two lanes and was sitting behind me (in my car at the time) waiting for the right hand turn light. Once we'd completed the right hand turn he plonked himself in the bike lane and wasn't going above 25kph.

I had a good look at his face under his motorbike helmet while waiting at the lights and he looked young. I think this is the second time I've seen this mini motorbike (or something similar) because on the weekend an older man was riding what looked like the same motorbike (also without plates) without a helmet down a designated bike lane in another part of inner city Melbourne.

If the cops pick this boy up it'll be a steep and nasty learning curve that it is illegal to ride unlicensed, and on an unregistered motorbike. At least he had a motorbike helmet on. :roll:
User avatar
Summernight
 
Posts: 1653
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:40 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Ross » Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:18 pm

Three men travelling in the same vehicle booked for drink-driving in the same night

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/n ... 6870659946
Image
User avatar
Ross
 
Posts: 3752
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:53 pm

Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby bychosis » Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:21 pm

Ross wrote:Three men travelling in the same vehicle booked for drink-driving in the same night

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/n ... 6870659946

Similar thing happened on one of those highway patrol shows. Female driver goes over. Passenger asks if he can have a breath test before continuing on. Officer says "no, I can't do that but if you drive off then I will" the couple wait in the parked car for a couple of hours. They swap positions and the passenger goes to drive off. Mr policeman duly tests the second driver and finds him over. Some people just aren't smart.
bychosis (bahy-koh-sis): A mental disorder of delusions indicating impaired contact with a reality of no bicycles.
User avatar
bychosis
 
Posts: 2279
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:10 pm
Location: Lake Macquarie

Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby toolonglegs » Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:11 pm

Law here is you must have two disposable breath test kits in the car at all times... which is good because the chances of being pulled over are pretty close to zero.
Image
User avatar
toolonglegs
 
Posts: 14380
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:49 pm
Location: Somewhere with padded walls and really big hills!

Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby casual_cyclist » Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:54 pm

malnar wrote:Bloke on the shared path approaching me riding an internal combustion engine-powered bicycle towing a kiddie carrier trailer. He was doing about 35 ks & didn't slow down or deviate his line. No helmet. Head like a moron's. Noisy and stinky vehicle.

I had the opposite yesterday. Bloke on a shared path approaching me riding an internal combusion engine-powered bicycle... cut off the motor before he got too close, pedalled past and didn't restart until there was a sufficient gap. I appreciated that because they are noisy and stinky. It just demonstrates how little effort it takes to be considerate.
<removed by request>
User avatar
casual_cyclist
 
Posts: 7328
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:41 am
Location: Kewdale

Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby casual_cyclist » Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:57 pm

Moron motorists yesterday at the Roe St, Barrack St intersection x4 turning right on the red arrow into an intersection where the cyclist/ped light had turned green and cyclists and peds had already started moving into the intersection! :oops:

Yes, mayhem ensued which was only exacerbated when other MMs on Roe St started tooting the motorists in front of them for not moving into an intersection that was already blocked!
<removed by request>
User avatar
casual_cyclist
 
Posts: 7328
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:41 am
Location: Kewdale

Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby herzog » Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:40 pm

Ok, my story is from a couple of weeks ago, but it now appears to have played out well, so here goes:


Riding to work, in a busy part of the Sydney CBD, a MM is being an absolute git behind me.

Tailgating, revving, and honking the horn. All because he had a cyclist in front of him. It's not like I was holding him up, there was one red light after another.

Anyway I get to near my office and the road opens up a bit. He screams past, yelling idiotic garbage out the window.

As I'm dismounting to go into the office, I notice him parking a hundred metres or so down the road.

He gets out of the car, looks around in both directions to see if anyone's watching, then flicks something on the dashboard. Then locks up the car and walks off.

I check out the car - he's chucked Granny's handicap permit on the dashboard, so he can park all day long in the CBD for free.

Next step, I ring the Mobility Cheats Hotline (yes it's a thing). Give all the details to the lady, including the permit number, etc and a description of the driver (30's male, clearly non handicapped). She says this sounds nothing like the permit holder and will forward for enforcement action.

The car is parked in a similar spot on the street each day for the next 3 or 4 days, so he's clearly a repeat offender. Then I'm guessing a letter arrived from the Police - he hasn't been back since. And I suspect granny is pretty cranky with him too...

KARMA


Mobility Cheats Hotline is on:

1300 884 899

http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/newsevents/20 ... tline.html
User avatar
herzog
 
Posts: 1712
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:50 pm

Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Xplora » Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:00 pm

herzog wrote:KARMA is a bitch

:mrgreen:
Xplora
 
Posts: 6080
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:33 pm
Location: TL;DR

Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby casual_cyclist » Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:31 pm

herzog wrote:Next step, I ring the Mobility Cheats Hotline (yes it's a thing). Give all the details to the lady, including the permit number, etc and a description of the driver (30's male, clearly non handicapped). She says this sounds nothing like the permit holder and will forward for enforcement action.

Gold! Just Gold!
<removed by request>
User avatar
casual_cyclist
 
Posts: 7328
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:41 am
Location: Kewdale

Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby trailgumby » Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:50 pm

casual_cyclist wrote:
herzog wrote:Next step, I ring the Mobility Cheats Hotline (yes it's a thing). Give all the details to the lady, including the permit number, etc and a description of the driver (30's male, clearly non handicapped). She says this sounds nothing like the permit holder and will forward for enforcement action.

Gold! Just Gold!

+1. Nice work herzog.

The behaviour on the road and the cheating on the permit are just flip sides of the same entitlement mentality.
"People have a right to their own opinions, but not their own facts. Evidence must be located, not created, and opinions not backed by evidence cannot be given much weight." -- James W Loewen

http://www.facebook.com/Drive2WorkDay
User avatar
trailgumby
 
Posts: 10305
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:30 pm
Location: Northern Beaches, Sydney

Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:32 pm

trailgumby wrote:
The behaviour on the road and the cheating on the permit are just flip sides of the same entitlement mentality.

Yep, some people are just more important than the rest of us. The ones that jump queues, ride past traffic in the emergency lane, cross over corner petrol stations to miss the lights, etc etc.
Unchain yourself - Ride a unicycle .Image
User avatar
ColinOldnCranky
 
Posts: 4697
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:58 pm

Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby London Boy » Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:16 pm

Summernight wrote:The taxi driver was helpful and I believe him when he said what he said at the time about warning them from getting out at that spot. [...] It's not as if he can lock the doors and prevent passengers from getting out (apparently that can be done in London).

It used to be automatic in the black cabs. Doors lock once you're on your way, they unlock so you can get out when the cab is parked and you've paid the fare. As far as I know, it is still the practice.
User avatar
London Boy
 
Posts: 603
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:43 pm

PreviousNext

Return to General discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Dropbear20



Popular Bike Shops
Torpedo 7 Torpedo7 AU
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Ebay Ebay AU

“Bicycles BNA Twitter
“Bicycles BNA Facebook
“Google+ BNA Google+
“Bicycles BNA Newsletter

> FREE BNA Stickers
> BNA Cycling Kit