Moron Motorists #3

open topic, for anything cycling related.

Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby human909 » Thu May 01, 2014 3:27 pm

dungee wrote:I'm not sure how the driving was appropriate? Anyhow back to riding up the middle of the road on Camp HIll, all those angry bus drivers can just queue up behind me at 21kph.


I would most definately reply back to them and escalate the issue. Was this the close pass video??? If so point out that passing somebody that closely is NOT safe and is in fact against the law in Queensland and there is a move to make it Australia wide.

Consider bringing it up with worksafe suggesting that their worksafe policies are clearly not up to scratch!
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by BNA » Thu May 01, 2014 3:53 pm

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jasonc » Thu May 01, 2014 3:53 pm

human909 wrote:
dungee wrote:I'm not sure how the driving was appropriate? Anyhow back to riding up the middle of the road on Camp HIll, all those angry bus drivers can just queue up behind me at 21kph.


I would most definitely reply back to them and escalate the issue.


Why reply back? just go straight to the police. they've have their opportunity and palmed him off.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby dungee » Thu May 01, 2014 3:57 pm

human909 wrote:
dungee wrote:I'm not sure how the driving was appropriate? Anyhow back to riding up the middle of the road on Camp HIll, all those angry bus drivers can just queue up behind me at 21kph.


I would most definately reply back to them and escalate the issue. Was this the close pass video??? If so point out that passing somebody that closely is NOT safe and is in fact against the law in Queensland and there is a move to make it Australia wide.

Consider bringing it up with worksafe suggesting that their worksafe policies are clearly not up to scratch!


For those that missed the link to the video - Close pass http://vimeo.com/92228195#t=0s action is about 50 seconds in.

Not sure if it's too late to send it to the police, it was in the 1st week of the new laws, the rego number of the bus was not visible, just the route number so I'm not sure if the police would do anything. I'd be happy if they said "yeah, that was bad, we'll talk to the driver" instead of the bulldust reply I got..
Last edited by dungee on Thu May 01, 2014 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby bernard.carpenter » Thu May 01, 2014 4:00 pm

warthog1 wrote:
bernard.carpenter wrote:My first post. Hills district Sydney. Unfortunately I encounter someone like this quite regularly.
http://youtu.be/8SXTzIWyvbE



BMW driver is a self entitled tosser :roll:

Bit OT sorry, but what rear tyre is that and how goes it, wear and puncture resistance wise?


Pics of my bike here : http://berniecarpenter.tumblr.com/post/ ... s-mountain

OT maybe, but what cyclist can resist the opportunity to talk about their bike. Mine is a late 80's mountain bike I converted to single speed when an accident stripped the thread on the derailleur hanger ring. My first (and favourite) bike. I ride this bike as my first choice and only use the go-faster (or my suspension mountain bike) when having the odd fang with friends on the weekend. Commuting, shopping and riding with the kids is always the single speed.

As suggested by others, the tyres are Schwalbe Big Apples which I put on Christmas 2012. Coincidentally I had my first flat this week - a large chunk of glass got through - in the past, glass has stuck in, made tapping noises as I rode and I was able to reach down and scrape it off before it pierced. Anyway, my commute is 8-9 km each way, 5 days a week with a few (10-50) kms on most weekends. So I'm guestimating one flat in 7000km ... not bad.

Love the fat platform for commuting with built in suspension. My bike is single speed and I ride hills everyday, so I'm not after speed - reliability is more important to me on my commute.

Anwyay, highly recommended.

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N00b question ... is there some way to set the picture size inline? The I initially posted a pic of my bike using the IMG button, but it came out stupidly big, so I put in a link instead.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby bernard.carpenter » Thu May 01, 2014 4:46 pm

dungee wrote:
human909 wrote:
dungee wrote:I'm not sure how the driving was appropriate? Anyhow back to riding up the middle of the road on Camp HIll, all those angry bus drivers can just queue up behind me at 21kph.


I would most definately reply back to them and escalate the issue. Was this the close pass video??? If so point out that passing somebody that closely is NOT safe and is in fact against the law in Queensland and there is a move to make it Australia wide.

Consider bringing it up with worksafe suggesting that their worksafe policies are clearly not up to scratch!


For those that missed the link to the video - Close pass http://vimeo.com/92228195#t=0s action is about 50 seconds in.

Not sure if it's too late to send it to the police, it was in the 1st week of the new laws, the rego number of the bus was not visible, just the route number so I'm not sure if the police would do anything. I'd be happy if they said "yeah, that was bad, we'll talk to the driver" instead of the bulldust reply I got..


If a company built a scaffold at their workplace and it fell down and killed someone, the company would be in a world of hurt. Even if it fell down and "nearly" killed someone, there would be a WHS investigation. I think stuff like this is EXACLTY the same thing. A traffic fine for a bus company is no threat at all, however, a WHS investigation might be. Try the cops, but you might want to think about your state's Dept. Work health and safety.

Maybe try something like this :

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Company Director
Bus Company Address

I would like to draw your attention to actions of the driver of your vehicle, which occurred on [DATE], at approximately [Time]. I refer to the following photograph which was taken with a camera attached to my vehicle :

[Picture]

While travelling South on [Road], [Suburb], my vehicle was closely passed by your
vehicle - registration number [Rego. Number]. I believe the vehicle was travelling at excessive speed for the road conditions and the driver’s actions posed a clear and immediate threat to my safety.

[Details why you felt you were in danger - include any road laws breached by the driver]

As a person conducting a business or undertaking I would like to remind you of the NSW Work, Health and Safety Act 2011.

By conducting your business of public roads, these public roads become part of your workplace as defined in Section 8 of Subdivision 2 of Division 3 of the Act 02. Therefore you have an obligation to take reasonable steps to ensure the safety of those who are forced to share this public space with your vehicles.

The Work Health and Safety Act is very clear with regards to your Primary Duty of Care. Division 2 of the Act outlines your responsibilities with regards to the safety of others03. I believe your employee and your vehicle were in breach of this Act today.

Division 2 of the ACT goes on to provide guidelines for the training and monitoring of your workers. You, as the person conducting a business, are required by law, to ensure your workers are properly trained with respect to maintaining a safe work environment. Further, you are required to monitor these workers to ensure that they apply this training and do not put others in danger.

Therefore, I would like to know :
(a) what assurances you can give me that myself, and others, are safe in the place where you choose to conduct your business.
(b) what re-training and counselling you will now provide the driver.
(c) how will you monitor the performance of this driver in the future.

Below I have provided some details of the NSW Road Regulations 2008 as well as sections of the Work Health and Safety Act 2011 to support this letter of complaint.

I have forwarded this complaint to [Your State's Government Work health and Safety Complaints department] and have urged them to investigate your company with regards to this incident. I posting details of this incident, including your company details, on the internet so that others who are similarly threatened by your employees can refer to this matter when making their own inquiry.

Sincerely,


[Your Name]
1
[Details of any road laws breached by the driver]

02 The Work Health and Safety Act defines workplace as follows:

Meaning of “workplace”
A workplace is a place where work is carried out for a business or undertaking and includes any place where a worker goes, or is likely to be, while at work … place includes:
(a) a vehicle, vessel, aircraft or other mobile structure


03 The Work Health and Safety Act defines Duty of Care as follows :

Primary duty of care
(2) A person conducting a business or undertaking must ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, that the health and safety of other persons is not put at risk from work carried out as part of the conduct of the business or undertaking.

04 With regards to Training and Monitoring

(3) Without limiting subsections (1) and (2), a person conducting a business or undertaking must ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable:
(f) the provision of any information, training, instruction or supervision that is necessary to protect all persons from risks to their health and safety arising from work carried out as part of the conduct of the business or undertaking, and
(g) that the health of workers and the conditions at the workplace are monitored for the purpose of preventing illness or injury of persons arising from the conduct of the business or undertaking.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby elantra » Thu May 01, 2014 5:13 pm

dungee wrote:
Marto wrote:
herzog wrote:Hopefully they do actually handle it internally rather than simple delete your email.

It's a bit concerning that the poster above commented that it's a generic form letter.

The fact that they even *have* a form letter for this suggests that it's happening frequently enough. It also suggests that whatever they are doing to 'handle it internally' isn't having much of an effect on the behaviour of the drivers.


I've also received that form letter (in response to the "I dont give a s**t about the legislation" episode). It probably sits on their intranet under complaint letters, named cyclist_bus_complaint.doc, with [insert bus route] in the appropriate place.

Doesn't inspire much confidence that anything was done.


Well I received another response for Translink... I suppose I should have expected this.

Thank you for your contact with TransLink about route 267’s bus driver.

As you may be aware, TransLink undertook an investigation into the matters you raised. In consulting with our delivery partner, we were provided with the below information:

“After viewing the footage provided and further consultation with the police, it has been deemed that the driver performed appropriately on this occasion”.

We do apologise for the inconvenience or frustration you have experienced.


I'm not sure how the driving was appropriate? Anyhow back to riding up the middle of the road on Camp HIll, all those angry bus drivers can just queue up behind me at 21kph.

[For those that missed the link to the video - Close pass http://vimeo.com/92228195#t=0s action is about 50 seconds in.]

Appropriate driving ?
Nothing appropriate about the response that you got, obviously they looked at the wrong video !
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby il padrone » Thu May 01, 2014 6:38 pm

Get in the centre of that lane man. Those bus drivers know what they are required to do - their licence depends on it. If you give them an inch they'll take the proverbial mile. I always ride wider at night than in daytime, because I need more room to spot road debris/potholes, and because with good lights and reflectives I know that I am even more conspicuous to drivers than in daylight.

Really, it works. On multilane roads you do not need to hug the gutter, but the buses are required to overtake within a full lane, so push them to change lanes fully.
Last edited by il padrone on Thu May 01, 2014 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby wellington_street » Thu May 01, 2014 6:56 pm

At the point the bus passes you, you are on the road shoulder, not in an actual lane, and are required to give way to the bus as you re-enter the road. That may have been what was picked up when Translink 'investigated' the footage.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby human909 » Thu May 01, 2014 7:12 pm

wellington_street wrote:At the point the bus passes you, you are on the road shoulder, not in an actual lane, and are required to give way to the bus as you re-enter the road. That may have been what was picked up when Translink 'investigated' the footage.


Quite true. But that is no excuse from the bus drivers nor Translink's actions.

Furthermore it should be noted that the safe passing laws still apply regardless. The bus was passing the cyclist while travelling in the same direction thus the bus needs to give the cyclists sufficient distance. The fact that the cyclist was in the shoulder is irrelevant to the actions of the bus driver.
Last edited by human909 on Thu May 01, 2014 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Lukeyboy » Thu May 01, 2014 7:13 pm

il padrone wrote:Those bus drivers know what they are required to do


Like trying to merge into passing traffic.... mounting the footpath.... with one hand on the steering wheel regardless if you are a cyclist or a car? :P (yes there was a car directly behind me in the video).

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby il padrone » Thu May 01, 2014 7:24 pm

Well, my experience with the much-maligned bus drivers, and the heavy vehicle drivers generally, on many different roads and cities, is that if you stand your ground - even do a bit of a well-timed wiggle - they will always err on the safe side to slow and change lanes fully. If you hug the gutter, in a predictable straight line they'll assume all is well and they can go past, often too close. I have been dealing with these guys in just such overtakes for years.

A bit different to the pull-out. That driver was failing to give way; however here in Melbourne drivers can pull out from a kerb-side stop, and other vehicles are required to give way, unlike with any other vehicle.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Lukeyboy » Thu May 01, 2014 7:33 pm

Same applies here in Queensland. It's the law but for it to be valid mr bus driver has to be on the same road going the same direction.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby dungee » Thu May 01, 2014 8:14 pm

human909 wrote:
wellington_street wrote:At the point the bus passes you, you are on the road shoulder, not in an actual lane, and are required to give way to the bus as you re-enter the road. That may have been what was picked up when Translink 'investigated' the footage.


Quite true. But that is no excuse from the bus drivers nor Translink's actions.

Furthermore it should be noted that the safe passing laws still apply regardless. The bus was passing the cyclist while travelling in the same direction thus the bus needs to give the cyclists sufficient distance. The fact that the cyclist was in the shoulder is irrelevant to the actions of the bus driver.


Yes I was on the shoulder, and the bus passed before I crossed the line, absolutely doesn't remove the requirement for safe passing distances. I'd looked back and was about to move wider once the bus passed. Not what I would have done the week before. I was hoping the new laws would make a difference. They did, everyone kept well clear, this idiot was the only close pass I had up Camp Hill that night.

Problem is it only take one person to maim you. I'll be trying to escalate this one. Pity the footage isn't clearer, by my calculations he was about 200mm from my shoulder as the back of the bus slid by. I doubt they went to the police I think they say that to bluff you.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby biker jk » Fri May 02, 2014 9:44 am

Where do I start? First, riding in the cycle lane of Centennial Park a car ahead signals left to exit and then while still across the cycle lane stops abruptly. I swerved around it to the right by leaving the cycle lane and taking the road. Second, I'm waiting to make a left turn from Oxford St into Glenmore Rd Paddington. Pedestrians are crossing so I have started the turn but stopped before the crossing lines. As it clears and I start off to complete the turn a car turns across my outside to get in front. :shock: I catch up with the driver and ask her why she passed me on the turn? She says I didn't signal a left turn! Firstly, I was in front of her with my bike pointing towards the street I was turning into. Second, there's no legal requirement to signal a left turn (in any case, I had signaled it before I started the turn). What a moron driver who should not hold a licence to drive. :evil:
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jasonc » Fri May 02, 2014 9:51 am

biker jk wrote:What a moron driver who should not hold a licence to drive. :evil:


it's ok, rego will fix it

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/duncan-gay-co ... zr2zf.html
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby ironhanglider » Fri May 02, 2014 9:53 am

biker jk wrote:Where do I start? First, riding in the cycle lane of Centennial Park a car ahead signals left to exit and then while still across the cycle lane stops abruptly. I swerved around it to the right by leaving the cycle lane and taking the road. Second, I'm waiting to make a left turn from Oxford St into Glenmore Rd Paddington. Pedestrians are crossing so I have started the turn but stopped before the crossing lines. As it clears and I start off to complete the turn a car turns across my outside to get in front. :shock: I catch up with the driver and ask her why she passed me on the turn? She says I didn't signal a left turn! Firstly, I was in front of her with my bike pointing towards the street I was turning into. Second, there's no legal requirement to signal a left turn (in any case, I had signaled it before I started the turn). What a moron driver who should not hold a licence to drive. :evil:


What an interesting excuse! So she intended for you to ride into the side of her car because if you weren't indicating you must have been going straight.

What makes you think she had a licence?

Cheers,

Cameron
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby wellington_street » Fri May 02, 2014 10:41 am

jasonc wrote:
biker jk wrote:What a moron driver who should not hold a licence to drive. :evil:


it's ok, rego will fix it

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/duncan-gay-co ... zr2zf.html


Cyclists need licences to address the behaviour of less than 1% of them? :roll:

Also, this is gold from the comments. Strong inverse user name to post content ratio :lol:

I agree we need more driver education, however the 1meter and 1.5meter rules are insane .. I have done the maths and with 2 cyclist riding abreast (as they are allowed to do) on a normal width road ... it become dangerous for any normal vehicle to pass. Example, in most situations on a single lane normal road, the driver will have to have part of their vehicle off the opposite side of the road .. in the gutter or on the verge to pass.

CommenterSensible Location Sydney Date and time May 02, 2014, 9:44AM
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Boognoss » Fri May 02, 2014 11:59 am

wellington_street wrote:
jasonc wrote:
biker jk wrote:What a moron driver who should not hold a licence to drive. :evil:


it's ok, rego will fix it

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/duncan-gay-co ... zr2zf.html


Cyclists need licences to address the behaviour of less than 1% of them? :roll:

Also, this is gold from the comments. Strong inverse user name to post content ratio :lol:

I agree we need more driver education, however the 1meter and 1.5meter rules are insane .. I have done the maths and with 2 cyclist riding abreast (as they are allowed to do) on a normal width road ... it become dangerous for any normal vehicle to pass. Example, in most situations on a single lane normal road, the driver will have to have part of their vehicle off the opposite side of the road .. in the gutter or on the verge to pass.

CommenterSensible Location Sydney Date and time May 02, 2014, 9:44AM


Let's keep this license discussion to the dedicated topic please.

Thanks.
n = 3 for now

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby dmwill » Fri May 02, 2014 6:38 pm

Riding along a 2km stretch of dual lane road this afternoon, no shoulder...so I'm sitting a foot or so out from the kerb. There is a dual use path adjacent but it's pretty rough due to the roots from all the Norfolk Pines that line the road. If the road was super busy, I'd probably be on the path, but only 10-12 cars passed over that 2km stretch, so no biggie.

The last car that passed me had to be an moron - old bloke all suited up in a Bentley Continental Convertible. Pointing to the path, dropped the F bomb among other things. I guess he had a bad day at work. Clearly, sitting in a $300k+ car and probably finishing up work early on a Friday was not good enough for him. Blowing him a kiss didn't seem to make him happier :?
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby herzog » Fri May 02, 2014 6:45 pm

It's probably about to be repossessed.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby il padrone » Fri May 02, 2014 7:03 pm

The driver-entitlement syndrome sitting high and proud :roll:
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby warthog1 » Fri May 02, 2014 8:30 pm

bernard.carpenter wrote:
Pics of my bike here : http://berniecarpenter.tumblr.com/post/ ... s-mountain

OT maybe, but what cyclist can resist the opportunity to talk about their bike. Mine is a late 80's mountain bike I converted to single speed when an accident stripped the thread on the derailleur hanger ring. My first (and favourite) bike. I ride this bike as my first choice and only use the go-faster (or my suspension mountain bike) when having the odd fang with friends on the weekend. Commuting, shopping and riding with the kids is always the single speed.

As suggested by others, the tyres are Schwalbe Big Apples which I put on Christmas 2012. Coincidentally I had my first flat this week - a large chunk of glass got through - in the past, glass has stuck in, made tapping noises as I rode and I was able to reach down and scrape it off before it pierced. Anyway, my commute is 8-9 km each way, 5 days a week with a few (10-50) kms on most weekends. So I'm guestimating one flat in 7000km ... not bad.

Love the fat platform for commuting with built in suspension. My bike is single speed and I ride hills everyday, so I'm not after speed - reliability is more important to me on my commute.

Anwyay, highly recommended.

EDIT -----------------------------------------------------------------
N00b question ... is there some way to set the picture size inline? The I initially posted a pic of my bike using the IMG button, but it came out stupidly big, so I put in a link instead.


Thanks for getting back to me, nice work on the bike, like what you've done :)

I like hearing how others go with tyres and am always on the look out for new tyres to try.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby kenwstr » Fri May 02, 2014 8:58 pm

cowled wrote:
kenwstr wrote:So I think that if cyclists want credible representation in the public arena, they must first clean up their own act or no one will listen.


Ken, you had me nodding in broad agreement until you said this. There is no amount of 'cleaning up our act' that will get through to folk who just don't want to listen. The only thing they will pay attention to is the possibility of having to pay a fine or lose their driving license.

I have lost count of the number of times I have been honked at when I was doing absolutely nothing wrong. See this video as just one example.



There will always be a group of motorists who harbour an irrational hatred of cyclists and will object to us even being on the road. We cannot do anything to get folk like that to listen.

Having said that, getting cyclists to clean up their act is a worthy campaign. Good luck with that.


Yeh, it's the old 80-20 rule. I agree there is nothing you, me or anyone can do about the 20% who are totally irrational, being absorbed in self importance. I said that for the sake of some of the 80% who are more or reasonable but may be swayed one way of the other depending on what they see us doing.

Regards,
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Marto » Tue May 06, 2014 12:10 am

A car overtaking me this morning didn't leave enough room to an oncoming car, resulting in a close call. They failed to judge the distance to the oncoming car, assuming they saw it. There were lots of shadows from the trees to the right, but if you cant see clearly for a sufficient distance, then you shouldn't overtake. Headlights are important in this sort of shady situation

I dont think my lane positioning influenced this incident, but maybe they wouldn't have overtaken a car in this situation. They were obviously cautious with me, but maybe not so watchful of the oncoming traffic.

If you press 6 during playback, you can see a plastic lid of some sort come flying towards me.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby foo on patrol » Tue May 06, 2014 5:29 am

Sunday Bunch Ride on Bribie. We are travelling along thr Espanade in single file with our lights on (sun is up) sunddenly everyone is going evertwhere and I looks up to see a red I30 has pulled out in front of us.:mad: No indicator was used, just pulled straight out. Red flag to a bull to me as I see they aren't going to getaway from us. I sprint after them and get the slipstream and kick along side to the drivers window. The driver is in not looking not looking mode as I give him a burst of WTH are you thing fool. I then kick again to pass him and then move back over to the left. When he finally goes past he gives me the finger, so he did see me.:lol:

The girls in the group watched on on astonishment at my little driver education sermon and thought, noway Foo is chasing him down but the were wrong and I said he now maybe more aware of cyclists and pulling out infront of them.:idea:

Foo

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