Moron Motorists #3

open topic, for anything cycling related.

Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby kenwstr » Tue May 13, 2014 6:29 pm

biker jk wrote:
g-boaf wrote:Lights don't look that great compared to the bright ones we use. I haven't watched the whole video - but if he was drunk, or for that matter had any alcohol, then don't get on a bike.


He was drunk as a skunk, with next to no lights but did wear a helmet. :lol:


Yes he was wearing a helmet though it doesn't appear to have been protecting anything he uses regularly. :wink:


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by BNA » Tue May 13, 2014 6:37 pm

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby bernard.carpenter » Tue May 13, 2014 6:37 pm


Menacing Driving. If you are wondering why he stopped I gestured WT? with my hand .
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby wellington_street » Tue May 13, 2014 6:52 pm

Straight to the police with that one?
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby bernard.carpenter » Tue May 13, 2014 7:10 pm

Tomorrow morning first thing.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby duncanm » Tue May 13, 2014 7:58 pm

bernard.carpenter wrote:Tomorrow morning first thing.


ok.. so the guy is clearly a male chicken.

But -- can I ask why you cut across to that lane at the light? There looks like plenty of room to safely cross and merge / let cars past from the kerbside lane.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby zero » Tue May 13, 2014 8:09 pm

duncanm wrote:
bernard.carpenter wrote:Tomorrow morning first thing.


ok.. so the guy is clearly a male chicken.

But -- can I ask why you cut across to that lane at the light? There looks like plenty of room to safely cross and merge / let cars past from the kerbside lane.


He changed lanes because the traffic lights have a turning arrow sequence that would see him blocking turning traffic if he didn't - its visible on the footage. I've no doubt that the had the Ute driver wanted to turn, and had the cyclist stayed in the left lane there would have been a similar confrontation and much horn use. If I knew the usual traffic light sequence, I would have done same - but made the move far more clearly to the right.

Sometimes you do that, and no turning traffic appears.

The driver being a foolish p-plater did not recognize that the riding was actually being generally courteous to other road users, and that should definitely not be rewarded with extreme close use of the car and then an act that risks him being charged with predatory driving, which really does require the police to have a word in his ear about his onroad behavior.

Yes the rider could have made a clearer move to a better location in the lane.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby bernard.carpenter » Tue May 13, 2014 8:15 pm

If you watch the light there is a left hand turn arrow. If you sit in the left lane when the straight on light is red, but the left arrow is green, you cop abuse. If you move completely over to the gutter you risk a left hook once the straight on green goes as the cars will surge around you like the tide.

I recorded this wonderful interaction at the same traffic light a little over 12 months ago. In this situation I took the left lane, which I'm legally entitled to do. I have cycled this route each day for almost 10 years ... The light cycle is about 15 seconds.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=oBv8JLZQLKk

Also, the late lane change today was because it was a beautiful afternoon, I was heading home from work and I was daydreaming. I didn't notice the light change until quite late. Definately should have taken more of the lane.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby duncanm » Tue May 13, 2014 8:26 pm

yeh - I noticed the turn arrow upon second viewing.. in that situation I usually position myself to the far right (and forward) in the left lane, which leaves enough space in most cases.

ahhh.. damned if you do, damned if you don't.

It is any surprise both of these 'wits were in Utes?
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby yugyug » Tue May 13, 2014 9:31 pm

duncanm wrote:. in that situation I usually position myself to the far right (and forward) in the left lane, which leaves enough space in most cases.


yeah but that can leave you quite vulnerable as left turning cars and trucks from further back who haven't seen you (or don't care that you are there) start to stream close past you. Its then compounded if the cars in the right lane take off at speed leaving you sandwiched between two lanes.

I tend to claim the right lane, but if I'm overtaking the right lane queue from the left lane and the lights change or I'm otherwise caught out with left turning cars stuck behind me, I'll position myself dead in front of the car at the front of the right lane queue. This is illegal, cos I've gone past the line, but I'd be comfortable explaining to a cop why I did it for my own safety. Avoiding abuse from d-heads in utes is part of my harm minimisation strategy too, because I don't tend to react with the same kind of politeness shown by bernard: "have a nice day" - ur a saint! :)
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby il padrone » Tue May 13, 2014 10:58 pm

zero wrote:He changed lanes because the traffic lights have a turning arrow sequence that would see him blocking turning traffic if he didn't - its visible on the footage. I've no doubt that the had the Ute driver wanted to turn, and had the cyclist stayed in the left lane there would have been a similar confrontation and much horn use. If I knew the usual traffic light sequence, I would have done same - but made the move far more clearly to the right.

I encounter just such an intersection at three places each way on my commute. No 'left-turn only' lane, so I sit square in the left lane. Traffic behind gets to suck it up. If someone comes up and blasts the horn I sit there and look quizzical; if someone comes up quietly and waits I may move if there is time before the light goes red again. I have minimal grief with this. On quiet roads, when you take the right lane, even where it is sensible and prefectly legal, most drivers just can't cope...... thus aggro behaviour ensues.

I enjoy the quieter life these days.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby DavidS » Tue May 13, 2014 11:36 pm

Riding between campuses today, over Princes Bridge in Melbourne going North. Coming up to the lights at Fed Square. Truck changes lanes into the newish wide bike lane right in front of me. I could hardly believe it, haven't seen anyone do this in that lane before. I managed to get in front of him but it was a squeeze. It was a pity I was late for a meeting as otherwise I would have just sat there in front of him until he returned to the lane he is allowed in. I can't believe these idiots, the sense of entitlement of motor vehicle drivers is clearly offended by giving space to bicycles.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby yugyug » Tue May 13, 2014 11:51 pm

il padrone wrote:I encounter just such an intersection at three places each way on my commute. No 'left-turn only' lane, so I sit square in the left lane. Traffic behind gets to suck it up.


Just out of interest, when it is a 'left-turn only' lane, is there any special provision for cyclists to go straight ahead from the left lane?

I would guess we follow the same rules as cars, but I'm just wondering because we seem to be also allowed to ride in the door lane (seem to be encouraged to do so according to all those funny little bicycle drawings on the road), something cars can't do, but yet it seems be the door lane/parking lane which transitions to left-turn only lanes at many intersections. Obviously vehicular cycling indicates we would then change lanes to the right lane in order to go straight, but this can be difficult at times.... I don't ride in the door lane anymore so my question is just for interest's sake.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby human909 » Wed May 14, 2014 12:18 am

yugyug wrote:Just out of interest, when it is a 'left-turn only' lane, is there any special provision for cyclists to go straight ahead from the left lane?

No there is not. It is technically illegal.

But personally I apply a liberal does of common sense and my apply my normal attitude to rules. On occasion it simply makes more sense to stay left. But that really depends on conditions on the opposite side of the road. On streets where the left turn lane has been retrofitted it often lines up with an empty lane/bike lane on the opposite side so there is plenty of room. If it does not and you have to merge into a stream of traffic mid intersection then not only is it illegal but plainly unsafe.

This common sense behavior is even sometimes enshrined in the road markings in Melbourne. Often left turn lanes have bike boxes in front of them for bikes travelling straight. This is one such example, the left lane is left turn only now the google streetview is out of date.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby cowled » Wed May 14, 2014 10:05 am

human909 wrote:
yugyug wrote:Just out of interest, when it is a 'left-turn only' lane, is there any special provision for cyclists to go straight ahead from the left lane?

No there is not. It is technically illegal.


Agreed. Some years back I had this conversation with a police officer when reporting a close pass. The intersection is here (https://maps.google.com.au/?ll=-27.439346,153.063901&spn=0.000529,0.001032&t=h&z=21&layer=c&cbll=-27.439309,153.06398&panoid=I2LPwJb6juqubX8Ju4Oufw&cbp=12,67.99,,0,14.21). I was told by the police officer that, if I am heading straight on, I must stay out of the left turn only lane. I was told that it could be dangerous if I went straight through from the left turn only lane because motorists may try to overtake and turn left without realising that I intend on going straight through.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby snortin » Wed May 14, 2014 10:58 am

There are a number of locations in Sydney where it is legal for cyclists to be in the left turn lane and continue straight. They are all marked with the signs "Left Lane Must Turn Left" and one below it "Cyclists Excepted". Most often there is also exemption for buses - indicated by the sign "Buses Excepted".

see for example this one at St Leonard on the Pacific Highway northbound https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-33.824741,151.189241,3a,75y,261.54h,62.57t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sPa4EJN_or-IQor2O6pH6cw!2e0
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby wellington_street » Wed May 14, 2014 11:14 am

snortin wrote:There are a number of locations in Sydney where it is legal for cyclists to be in the left turn lane and continue straight. They are all marked with the signs "Left Lane Must Turn Left" and one below it "Cyclists Excepted". Most often there is also exemption for buses - indicated by the sign "Buses Excepted".

see for example this one at St Leonard on the Pacific Highway northbound https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-33.824741,151.189241,3a,75y,261.54h,62.57t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sPa4EJN_or-IQor2O6pH6cw!2e0


Yep, this is correct. The appropriate regulatory signage is required to exempt a vehicle from the requirement to turn left. You can remember it by this easy acronym "LLMTLBE" :lol:
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Aushiker » Wed May 14, 2014 1:39 pm

yugyug wrote:Just out of interest, when it is a 'left-turn only' lane, is there any special provision for cyclists to go straight ahead from the left lane?


In WA I am aware of at least one such intersection signed with an exemption for cyclists to proceed straight through the intersection. The example I am aware of is at the Ord Street/Hampton Road intersection in Fremantle.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby yugyug » Wed May 14, 2014 9:38 pm

Cool, thanks for all the responses everyone.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby rustychisel » Thu May 15, 2014 11:25 am

yugyug wrote:Cool, thanks for all the responses everyone.


there are many around Adelaide, one which I traverse frequently is North Terrace (heading west) and Pulteney St intersection. There's a left only lane onto Pulteney, heavily used by all traffic including buses. Usually I take the lane, then make it clear I'm moving my bike forward and to the right to ALLOW them to pass by me without obstruction.

Anyone who thinks otherwise or remonstrates gets stopped and glared at or my special signal to indicate their intellectual status.

Hi yugyug... all good?
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby wellington_street » Thu May 15, 2014 12:42 pm

rustychisel wrote:there are many around Adelaide, one which I traverse frequently is North Terrace (heading west) and Pulteney St intersection. There's a left only lane onto Pulteney, heavily used by all traffic including buses. Usually I take the lane, then make it clear I'm moving my bike forward and to the right to ALLOW them to pass by me without obstruction.


Has that one been updated with 'Bicycles Excepted' signs? On street view there's only 'Buses Excepted' signs.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby yugyug » Thu May 15, 2014 4:58 pm

rustychisel wrote:
yugyug wrote:Cool, thanks for all the responses everyone.


there are many around Adelaide, one which I traverse frequently is North Terrace (heading west) and Pulteney St intersection. There's a left only lane onto Pulteney, heavily used by all traffic including buses. Usually I take the lane, then make it clear I'm moving my bike forward and to the right to ALLOW them to pass by me without obstruction.

Anyone who thinks otherwise or remonstrates gets stopped and glared at or my special signal to indicate their intellectual status.

Hi yugyug... all good?


hi rustychisel - yeah all good and thanks for that info about Adelaide too. Though you might guess that when I soon start riding a lot in Adelaide and get pulled over by the cops it won't be because I went straight from a left-turn only lane! :lol:
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby bernard.carpenter » Thu May 15, 2014 5:44 pm

il padrone wrote:
zero wrote:He changed lanes because the traffic lights have a turning arrow sequence that would see him blocking turning traffic if he didn't - its visible on the footage. I've no doubt that the had the Ute driver wanted to turn, and had the cyclist stayed in the left lane there would have been a similar confrontation and much horn use. If I knew the usual traffic light sequence, I would have done same - but made the move far more clearly to the right.

I encounter just such an intersection at three places each way on my commute. No 'left-turn only' lane, so I sit square in the left lane. Traffic behind gets to suck it up. If someone comes up and blasts the horn I sit there and look quizzical; if someone comes up quietly and waits I may move if there is time before the light goes red again. I have minimal grief with this. On quiet roads, when you take the right lane, even where it is sensible and prefectly legal, most drivers just can't cope...... thus aggro behaviour ensues.

I enjoy the quieter life these days.


Thanks for the advice Il Padrone.

The day this occured was unusual with respect to cars parked outside the petrol station on the left. Usually there are more cars and so, from the left lane, I will be forced to merge less than 20m beyond the intersection. In situations where I am clearly first to arrive at the intersection, I will take the right lane to avoid this nasty squeeze point a little further along (in the video my technique was less than perfect).

Alternatively, If I am late to the queue (and hence there isnt much time left on the 15 second left arrow timer), I will slowly approach the intersection from the left lane (signaling a stop with my right hand) - but try to time it so I avoid actually having to stop (9 times out of 10 the light will change to green). I will then pedal slowly through the intersection and beyond, giving traffic in the right lane time to pass. This tactic usually allows me to to merge without having to dodge any traffic. Things didnt go so smoothly on the day of this video.

I too (usually) enjoy the quieter life these days.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby GeoffInBrisbane » Thu May 15, 2014 5:50 pm

2 MM encounters within 2 minutes this afternoon. Approaching a three road roundabout, 4WD on my tail, I indicate right and move somewhat right into the lane (usually I claim it totally, something made me move over less on this occasion, maybe I just felt I would end up under the bumper). Old lady driving said 4WD pulls alongside and indicates LEFT as she is alongside me. Luckily she realises if she actually does turn left I'm dead, and stays wide then waits for me to pass again before she makes her turn. I was alarmed and waved my arm about a bit as I went by. I wonder if MM number 2 saw this and decided to have some fun. Riding up Lambert Rd, just passed a workmate on his bike, not enough room to chat with parked cars so I went ahead. P-Plate girl and friend come by, subtly drifting left as they pass. So subtly I wasn't sure if I imagined it. However as the light further up is red and cars are queued, she is approaching the back of the queue and I am going to pass on the left (loads of room between her and parked cars)...and as I do so, she drifts left not subtly at all. She got a yell and a lot of gesticulation. They passed later grinning. My workmate saw it all and couldn't believe it. Should have stopped for words, I'm sure with some suitably pointed comments they would have realised why stuff like that isn't funny.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Summernight » Thu May 15, 2014 6:08 pm

yugyug wrote:I tend to claim the right lane, but if I'm overtaking the right lane queue from the left lane and the lights change or I'm otherwise caught out with left turning cars stuck behind me, I'll position myself dead in front of the car at the front of the right lane queue. This is illegal, cos I've gone past the line, but I'd be comfortable explaining to a cop why I did it for my own safety. ...


I emphasised the part of your post I thought was interesting.

Are you sure what you are doing is actually illegal? I'm pretty sure (at least in Victoria) that there was a clarification of the rules a couple of years back that meant that motorists must stop before the first stop line on the ground, but cyclists must stop behind the second line on the ground before an intersection and can ride past the first stop line, meaning that if cars do as they are supposed to, then there is space to plonk you and your trusty bicycle in front of the car at all intersections and you're still not entering the pedestrian crossing section of the intersection. If you're doing this I believe you're acting legally but I can't be bothered reading the road rules to confirm so someone is welcome to prove me wrong.

It is why bike boxes have two stop lines - the first for the motorist and the second for the cyclist. Where there aren't bike boxes the second line is the first line for the pedestrian crossing area.

* * * *
MM story of mine was a happy ending (for everyone) last Friday morning.

I was first at the Bourke St lights, on Elizabeth St. As the lights changed a cyclist overtakes me and all the other cyclists waiting in the queue because he is clearly faster than me. Whatever, I'll let that go because I wear a skirt. He is wearing very a nice black and pink Rapha cycling jersey and matching knicks.

Anyway, as he passes me and approaches the Elizabeth/Little Bourke Street intersection right in front of me he is almost t-boned by a right turning car who failed to give way to him. Lucky for the cyclist that he was also turning left into the same street the car turned right into so the collision was avoided. The cyclist was right at the passenger door. Mr Cyclist didn't retaliate on the breaking of the road rules as he's probably used to that (riding a bike in the CBD and all). I'm pretty sure that MM didn't see the cyclist whatsoever. Unfortunately (or fortunately, really) for the motorist he happened to park in the exact building I park my bike so I politely explained to him that he'd almost cleaned up a cyclist. He thought I was referring to just outside the building we park in, to which I told him "No, you remember you turned right from Elizabeth into Little Bourke?" "Yes" "Well there was a cyclist that you failed to give way to there". To which he apologised. I think that is a good outcome. If you are that Rapha wearing cyclist, the motorist got his karma. :D
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby wellington_street » Thu May 15, 2014 6:55 pm

Summernight wrote:Are you sure what you are doing is actually illegal? I'm pretty sure (at least in Victoria) that there was a clarification of the rules a couple of years back that meant that motorists must stop before the first stop line on the ground, but cyclists must stop behind the second line on the ground before an intersection and can ride past the first stop line, meaning that if cars do as they are supposed to, then there is space to plonk you and your trusty bicycle in front of the car at all intersections and you're still not entering the pedestrian crossing section of the intersection. If you're doing this I believe you're acting legally but I can't be bothered reading the road rules to confirm so someone is welcome to prove me wrong.


What you described is only the case for bicycle storage boxes. At intersections without them, you must stop behind the solid (stop) line.
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