Moron Motorists #3

open topic, for anything cycling related.

Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby leximack » Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:36 pm

Mulger bill wrote:
RedlandSteve wrote:Saw a motorcyclist use a bicycle lane to pass moving traffic - is it sensible filtering or impatient overtaking (edit: or illegal maneuvering douchebag :roll:) ?

I don't have a problem with the idea of motos filtering via bike lanes. As always, the concept is often brilliant but then it falls down in the execution. :(


I have been riding motorcycles for 10+ years and have been filtering for just as long. If you stay behind the cars you WILL get cleaned up. I go to the front whether there is a queue of 20 cars or just 1. I go to the front, I can accelerate faster than 99% of cars so I am not going to hold anyone up and then repeat at the next set of lights. By filtering I mean up the middle on a 2 lane road (2 lanes going same way).
Bike lanes or breakdown lanes are a different story and only do it to pass a couple of cars if im going to turn left or enter a side street/servo etc, I wouldn't sit in a breakdown lane for km's on end.
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by BNA » Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:47 pm

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Baalzamon » Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:47 pm

Lukeyboy wrote:I don't have a problem with the occasional moto in the bike lane. Good motorpace training :P

As oxford has said they are just as vulnerable like us. I hate to see it but I've come across a few accidents where drivers have not being paying attention and driven straight into a stationary motorbike. I've also seen countless close shaves where the rider 100% deserved to remove their side mirror considering they weren't using it in the first place :P

The ones I don't like are the tools that buzz past. Usually the young moped type riders that then struggle with the concept of how a clutch works at the traffic light.


Nor do I like the ones that buzz past, doing 100kph next thing I know harley goes flying past me in my lane on my right, start to drift to the right and another one flies up the same side. He was lucky I didn't clean him up!
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby ldrcycles » Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:13 pm

Well you were on the money about Translink luke, i FINALLY got a reply from them and 90% of it was the same as the one you posted, the only addition being that they have "forwarded it to Sunbus who will conduct a thorough investigation and address the matter with the driver". NOT good enough! So Translink and Sunbus are getting the best of my angry letter writing skills (and believe me they are extraordinary) but as i asked the other week, is there any point in me going to the police without footage? I simply haven't got the time to go to the station only to be told "sorry can't help".
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Lukeyboy » Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:55 pm

ldrcycles wrote:Well you were on the money about Translink luke, i FINALLY got a reply from them and 90% of it was the same as the one you posted, the only addition being that they have "forwarded it to Sunbus who will conduct a thorough investigation and address the matter with the driver". NOT good enough! So Translink and Sunbus are getting the best of my angry letter writing skills (and believe me they are extraordinary) but as i asked the other week, is there any point in me going to the police without footage? I simply haven't got the time to go to the station only to be told "sorry can't help".


viewtopic.php?f=12&t=58039&start=6375
viewtopic.php?t=58039&p=1115010

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby rustychisel » Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:57 pm

yes, insist the police act on your complaint, read Oxford's pro forma, make sure you state clearly you are willing to appear in court as witness, and ask police to ensure they get copies of the relevant bus onboard video. Trust me on this, it'll show what went on quite clearly.

Writing to the bus company is 100% waste of time. Get the police involved - don't get uppity - and watch the bus driver sweat 3 points and a $400 fine.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby dungee » Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:34 am

ldrcycles wrote:Well you were on the money about Translink luke, i FINALLY got a reply from them and 90% of it was the same as the one you posted, the only addition being that they have "forwarded it to Sunbus who will conduct a thorough investigation and address the matter with the driver". NOT good enough! So Translink and Sunbus are getting the best of my angry letter writing skills (and believe me they are extraordinary) but as i asked the other week, is there any point in me going to the police without footage? I simply haven't got the time to go to the station only to be told "sorry can't help".


I got the same deal with Translink, nothing happens! If it's bad enough and you have enough evidence take it to the police first, Translink second.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Biffidus » Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:56 am

And another one... this guy was frustrated at being stuck behind me for 30 seconds and gave me an angry wave of the finger while cutting me off at 0:35.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby outnabike » Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:30 am

Summernight wrote:
Oxford wrote:ROTFLMAO, won't they be a little upset then!


Well, they clearly don't care anyway as they're driving an unregistered vehicle... Vehicle registration suspension apparently only happens when they've already failed to pay fines...

http://online.fines.vic.gov.au/fines/Co ... px?page=48

:roll:


Hi Summernight.
Not in the law business and it looks a bit vague there alright.I found this but old and dated.
http://www.reddit.com/r/melbourne/comme ... ving_with/

It is an offence to go on the road unregistered and even inadvertently as well. Then if you don't pay that fine you will be proceeded against with a warrant and are in the poo. They are big on writing about warrants but sparse on just plain unregistered driving... :)

I think if redgo simply runs out you get some grace but can't drive on the roads, go past the grace period and you have to get a road worthy cert and are back at complete re-registration.
In your case, if they are driving unregistered they should get a visit and be booked I would think, so your bit of video ought to do a good job. It's all good fun.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby bychosis » Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:45 am

So it looks like another direction cyclists (and motorists) with video can take. If someone does something stupid on camera, check the rego database to see if the vehicle is registered. If the police aren't interested in following up close shaves maybe they will follow up unreg'd as it's a lot easier to prove.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Summernight » Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:37 pm

bychosis wrote:So it looks like another direction cyclists (and motorists) with video can take. If someone does something stupid on camera, check the rego database to see if the vehicle is registered. If the police aren't interested in following up close shaves maybe they will follow up unreg'd as it's a lot easier to prove.


I have checked registrations of vehicles before, but usually they are all current so it was a surprise when this one turned up 'Suspended' on the search and is one of the reasons why I've decided to send it in.

It will be interesting when I get all the footage and paperwork sorted and handed in to the police. We don't have the safe passing distance legislation here, so my guess is that piece of driving will be ignored. The verbal abuse and swearing at me will probably also be ignored. Not too sure whether they'll also ignore the crossing tramways rule. The owner will probably just be pinged for driving (or letting someone drive) a suspended vehicle. Which I understand can be a hefty fine.

outnabike wrote:Hi Summernight.
Not in the law business and it looks a bit vague there alright.I found this but old and dated.
http://www.reddit.com/r/melbourne/comme ... ving_with/

It is an offence to go on the road unregistered and even inadvertently as well. Then if you don't pay that fine you will be proceeded against with a warrant and are in the poo. They are big on writing about warrants but sparse on just plain unregistered driving... :)

I think if redgo simply runs out you get some grace but can't drive on the roads, go past the grace period and you have to get a road worthy cert and are back at complete re-registration.
In your case, if they are driving unregistered they should get a visit and be booked I would think, so your bit of video ought to do a good job. It's all good fun.


Thanks for that. From what I can tell, registration suspension is done by the Sherriff (presumably through a warrant), which is done AFTER failure to pay an infringement fine (ie. like the one in that Reddit link you posted) so I think that step has already been done and dusted.

Really the only viable way to stop someone driving a suspended vehicle is to clamp it. I've seen a couple of cars around Richmond clamped recently (the government is cracking down on unpaid parking/speeding fines). Seems they need to find this car and do the same.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Jangari » Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:16 pm

Oxford wrote:You'd think that in a 3.5km commute where only 100 metres of it is "highly trafficked" and with only one car passing me with no other impediments to satisfying TORUM S144A that there would be no problem. Not so. This driver who had an entire other lane (other side of road) to use (and no other vehicles to consider except me) and really only had to slow down so very little for such a short period of time to effect a safe S144A pass could have done so.



Oxford, I think you might be being a bit of a stickler for the accuracy of the law here. Imagine if you copped a parking fine for being slightly over the maximum distance from the curb when parked. When I see a lot of your videos (some contain very close shaves, yes), I see QLD drivers doing their best to give you space. They may be a smidge inside 1m, yes, but often they're indicating, and giving you a moderately wide berth. It's clear that their intent is to pass you safely given the conditions. And surely the law is deliberately conservative in how much space is necessary (though not an excuse for unsafe close shaves).

In short, I don't think these are the drivers that deserve to be named and shamed on youtube. That should be reserved for drivers who deliberately intimidate cyclists by their actions, not drivers who are trying to obey a law that can be extremely difficult to get exactly right in traffic (and most people's judgment of what constitutes a metre may be off my 20cm, another reason for the law to be a bit blurred at the edges). Although yes, in this video, the driver could have taken the whole oncoming lane, but they did have to wait for the other vehicle before doing so.

I think it could lead to more antagonism between cyclists and drivers when drivers who are trying to do the right thing are targeted in this way.

I'm not trying to argue or anything, and like many others here I appreciate your efforts to make the roads safer. I'm just putting forward my view on the matter in what is certainly a tense time between all road users.

</$0.02>
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby rangersac » Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:58 pm

Have to say I'm with Jangari on this one. Fair enough, by the letter of the law that was an illegal pass but given the car was almost in the other lane when it overtook, if it were me I'd be letting that one slide. I think what it does highlight though is that TORUM S144A is pretty useless without some serious investment in driver education. Your video would make a classic 'Is this a safe pass?' training example, and I'd lay money on the 'yes' response being 90% or greater.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby outnabike » Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:58 pm

[/quote]Jangari

Oxford, I think you might be being a bit of a stickler for the accuracy of the law here. Imagine if you copped a parking fine for being slightly over the maximum distance from the curb when parked. When I see a lot of your videos (some contain very close shaves, yes), I see QLD drivers doing their best to give you space. They may be a smidge inside 1m, yes, but often they're indicating, and giving you a moderately wide berth. It's clear that their intent is to pass you safely given the conditions. And surely the law is deliberately conservative in how much space is necessary (though not an excuse for unsafe close shaves).

In short, I don't think these are the drivers that deserve to be named and shamed on youtube. That should be reserved for drivers who deliberately intimidate cyclists by their actions, not drivers who are trying to obey a law that can be extremely difficult to get exactly right in traffic (and most people's judgment of what constitutes a metre may be off my 20cm, another reason for the law to be a bit blurred at the edges). Although yes, in this video, the driver could have taken the whole oncoming lane, but they did have to wait for the other vehicle before doing so.

I think it could lead to more antagonism between cyclists and drivers when drivers who are trying to do the right thing are targeted in this way.

I'm not trying to argue or anything, and like many others here I appreciate your efforts to make the roads safer. I'm just putting forward my view on the matter in what is certainly a tense time between all road users.

</$0.02>[/quote] Snipped

Hi Jangari, I reckon its fair to say that not all drivers do things with intent.
The problem is that when faced with an explanation, the are all innocent. This is a first time shave that occurred to me a while back.Any way the lane on the right was empty and nothing was following this car. All i received was a passed on apology from the police man. He said he interviewed that driver with the video and the driver had no idea he had come that close blah blah, and that was it. What a lot of rot. If that's his standard of driving it is just not good enough.
When you say ."Imagine if you copped a parking fine for being slightly over the maximum distance from the curb when parked" Well all I can say is a bloke parking a bit wrong is not going to kill me.


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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jules21 » Wed Aug 27, 2014 3:03 pm

outnabike wrote:Hi Jangari, I reckon its fair to say that not all drivers do things with intent.. He said he interviewed that driver with the video and the driver had no idea he had come that close blah blah, and that was it. What a lot of rot. If that's his standard of driving it is just not good enough.

+ 1

we should be careful about accepting the "oh.. i didn't know that was a problem" excuse. this is often a subtle attempt to normalise unsafe driving towards cyclists. a bit like "really? i just gave her a little slap. are you going to make such a big deal out of it?"
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby herzog » Wed Aug 27, 2014 3:09 pm

Jangari wrote:I think it could lead to more antagonism between cyclists and drivers when drivers who are trying to do the right thing are targeted in this way.

I'm not trying to argue or anything, and like many others here I appreciate your efforts to make the roads safer. I'm just putting forward my view on the matter in what is certainly a tense time between all road users.

</$0.02>


Agree with all of this.

Ultimately it's a matter of picking the right battles.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby outnabike » Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:08 pm

Some people become a little unforgiving whilst laying in a hospital in traction.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby GeoffInBrisbane » Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:32 pm

Waiting at the traffic light at the top of Station Road, Indooroopilly this morning, light went green just as a silver ute approached us from behind. We were turning left into Musgrave/Finney Rds, single file. He was also turning left. Obviously he was waaaay too busy to wait two seconds until we had negotiated the corners with islands before passing us, so he went straight passed between the islands and us. Lesson learned - next time I'm rolling through there in the right wheel track.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Ross » Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:25 pm

Repeat offender Nathaniel Barker banned from driving for 78 years

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/repeat-offend ... z3BaBReAiv

An elderly Sydney man has been banned from driving for the next 78 years and is facing nine months home detention after driving while disqualified for the 21st time.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jasonc » Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:28 pm

so it takes 21 times before something happens? 78 years = lifetime ban. should occur after second occurance not 21st. what a joke
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby InTheWoods » Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:19 pm

jasonc wrote:so it takes 21 times before something happens? 78 years = lifetime ban. should occur after second occurance not 21st. what a joke



+100. If you repeatedly drive while banned I think it should be a jail sentence, increasing in length each time.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Biffidus » Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:43 pm

Biffidus wrote:And another one... this guy was frustrated at being stuck behind me for 30 seconds and gave me an angry wave of the finger while cutting me off at 0:35.

I've turned off the image stabilisation in that clip... it seems to reduce the field of view and makes the car seem further away than it was.

And some good news on this one:

I received a follow up from the company involved and don't think I need to take it any further. I've set the original video to private and the new link (above) is unlisted.
I have now interviewed the Driver involved and as I expected there was absolutely no malice or intent, he actually advised that he came back across as he didn’t want to hold up the traffic in the fast lane and didn’t think that he was that close to you, however now having had the opportunity to view the footage he clearly understands where he went wrong and that he did in fact cut back into his lane too soon.

A copy of the report and subsequent interview have been uploaded into our National Reporting data base and will this remain on his record.

We do not take safety or our responsibility towards other road users lightly, we spend a lot of time and money ensuring that we have the right drivers operating our equipment and that they fully understand our expectations of them as a “ Professional Driver”, their driving skills are reviewed annually however unlike factory workers we don’t see them a lot of the time and only have the opportunity to monitor their driving hours and on board computers to ensure that they are doing the right thing.

We rely on people like yourself to bring this type of incident to our attention so that we can review and retrain where necessary.

Hope this is sufficient to close out the matter, and I would again ask if the video could be removed from you tube because I would hate to see our name tarnished due to the action of one driver.

Kind Regards

I think that's probably the best outcome I can expect. If only every company responded like this.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Scarfy96 » Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:22 am

Biffidus wrote:I think that's probably the best outcome I can expect. If only every company responded like this.


So will you be taking the video down from youtube as per their request if you are happy with the outcome?
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Summernight » Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:36 am

Scarfy96 wrote:
Biffidus wrote:I think that's probably the best outcome I can expect. If only every company responded like this.


So will you be taking the video down from youtube as per their request if you are happy with the outcome?


If it is an unlisted/private video I'm pretty sure it cannot be found by a search on Youtube. The only way it would be found would be through a direct link (like the one above).

I don't see why it should be taken down completely. Biffidus has no obligation to do so and it is a good reminder to everyone. The driver here did the wrong thing, and if the video or blurb doesn't blame the company and/or acknowledges the satisfactory actions taken by the company then I don't see the problem. If the company didn't want some form of reputation/PR then why put signage on a vehicle? With signage can come good PR and bad PR.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby rogan » Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:32 am

Summernight wrote:
If it is an unlisted/private video I'm pretty sure it cannot be found by a search on Youtube. The only way it would be found would be through a direct link (like the one above).

I don't see why it should be taken down completely. Biffidus has no obligation to do so and it is a good reminder to everyone. The driver here did the wrong thing, and if the video or blurb doesn't blame the company and/or acknowledges the satisfactory actions taken by the company then I don't see the problem. If the company didn't want some form of reputation/PR then why put signage on a vehicle? With signage can come good PR and bad PR.


Totally agree. One might have thought that putting the business name on the vehicle would make the business owner encourage the drivers to drive in a reasonable and responsible manner. It is totally the opposite though, in my experience and anecdotal evidence. Tradies in utes (invariably marked with business name and phone) are by far the greatest issue I face. Deliberate close passing, yelling comments, etc. Not excusing the plenty of other nongs out there, but the remainder of the driving population tends to commit more sins of negligence rather than aggression. Drivers of business name vehicles tend to skew towards aggression.

All companies who advertise themselves in this way must do more, no, exhort their workers to be on their best driving behaviour when driving the company vehicle. By putting signage on the vehicle, and allowing idiots to drive them (with or more likely without, suitable policies and training) - THEY create the risk that the company's name might be tarnished by one of their drivers. Where THEY create the risk, they get to live with the consequences to their business (which are frankly probably quite minor - unless they are as dopey as Jim's Mowing), when that risk comes to pass. Over time, most such businesses will get to deal with the issue, one way or another. Some of them might even think about who they allow to drive their vehicles.

I don't have a camera (still thinking about it) but if I did, my approach would be as per one of the above posts - leave it up, and include a comment about the reasonable response from the company involved.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby ikm » Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:53 am

More of a lesson on how not to approach a roundabout, I was kinda inviting this one. But anyway, yesterdays entertainment;

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