Moron Motorists #3

open topic, for anything cycling related.

Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby queequeg » Sat Sep 06, 2014 10:12 am

mikeyg63 wrote:
zero wrote:He indicated for sufficient time for you to not be attempting to overtake when he turned.


Thanks. That's real clear re the road rules? Is it your subjective view that he indicated in a sufficient timeframe? In NSW 30 metres of blinking time is required. This is the law! He did not abide by that law. Note also he slowed down before indicating.


That is not correct. There is a 5 second rule if you are stationary, but otherwise you only need to indicate fir long enough to warn others.

The actual rule is:


46 Giving a left change of direction signal

(1) Before a driver changes direction to the left, the driver must give a left change of direction signal in accordance with rule 47 for long enough to comply with subrule (2) and, if subrule (3) applies to the driver, that subrule.
Maximum penalty: 20 penalty units.
Note :
"Changes direction to the left" is defined in rule 45 (2).
(2) The driver must give the change of direction signal for long enough to give sufficient warning to other drivers and pedestrians.
(3) If the driver is about to change direction by moving from a stationary position at the side of the road or in a median strip parking area, the driver must give the change of direction signal for at least 5 seconds before the driver changes direction.
Note :
"Median strip parking area" is defined in the Dictionary.
(4) The driver must stop giving the change of direction signal as soon as the driver completes the change of direction.
Maximum penalty: 20 penalty units.
(5) This rule does not apply to a driver if the driver’s vehicle is not fitted with direction indicator lights.
Note :
"Driver’s vehicle" is defined in the Dictionary.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rr2008104/s46.html
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by BNA » Sat Sep 06, 2014 11:45 am

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby wellington_street » Sat Sep 06, 2014 11:45 am

5 seconds and 30m are rules of thumb, not the law.

If mikeyg63 was in a bike lane it would be a left hook but since hes in the same lane as the car hes not permitted to pass the car as its turning left and must give way.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby bychosis » Sat Sep 06, 2014 1:22 pm

I still think that the driver in the mikeyg63 did a pointless MGIF. Shows what moron driver do. Rush past, only to have you tailgate them because cyclists don't lose much speed through roundabouts or speed humps, then turned left in front of. I'll bet the driver wouldn't have overtaken a bus to beat it through the roundabout and the pull up to turn left, why do it to a bike.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby il padrone » Sat Sep 06, 2014 1:56 pm

mikeyg63 wrote:
zero wrote:He indicated for sufficient time for you to not be attempting to overtake when he turned.


Thanks. That's real clear re the road rules? Is it your subjective view that he indicated in a sufficient timeframe? In NSW 30 metres of blinking time is required. This is the law! He did not abide by that law. Note also he slowed down before indicating.

I have never read any specific rule about a distance or time that indication is required; "sufficient distance" is the term in the road rules I believe. As for overtaking to the left, this is the specific rule in Victoria:

141 No overtaking etc. to the left of a vehicle
(1) A driver (except the rider of a bicycle) must not overtake a vehicle to the left of the vehicle.....

.....(2) The rider of a bicycle must not ride past, or overtake, to the left of a vehicle that is turning left and is giving a left change of direction signal.


So, if the vehicle is stopped in traffic and signalling, you may pass on the left (I most often choose not to I will admit), but once the vehicle is moving and approaching a turn, or about to move and right near the turn, you may not pass on the left. It does require your judgement, and some reasonable and safe driving.

I have to agree that tail-gating a vehicle that has its left blinker on is never going to be a wise action.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby il padrone » Sat Sep 06, 2014 2:04 pm

Biffidus wrote:It seemed more like 3-4 seconds to me, which is less than the 5 seconds you're supposed to give (but more than a lot of people do).

The 5-second rule is related to when pulling out from a stationary position into traffic. There is no such rule for when moving in road lanes - it is only a requirement to give sufficient warning to other drivers and pedestrians (driver = rider).

46 Giving a left change of direction signal
(1) Before a driver changes direction to the left, the driver must give a left change of direction signal in accordance with rule 47 for long enough to comply with subrule (2) and, if subrule (3) applies to the driver, that subrule.
(2) The driver must give the change of direction signal for long enough to give sufficient warning to other drivers and pedestrians.
(3) If the driver is about to change direction by moving from a stationary position at the side of the road or in a median strip parking area, the driver must give the change of direction signal for at least 5 seconds before the driver changes direction.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby nezumi » Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:52 pm

Tangentially related to this example - the other day I was filtering past a taxi on a multi lane road.

My front wheel was approximately in line with his rear if not a bit ahead when he indicated and started to move left (at the same time). I yelled out and he stopped pushing me into the gutter, but I am curious on whether there is a rule relating to the need to give way to vehicles already in the lane etc. I wasn't behind him, I was already beside him, so I don't feel that 141 (2) applies, in that I was already passing him before he gave his change of direction signal.

Thoughts?
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby il padrone » Sat Sep 06, 2014 4:46 pm

That's an easy one:

148A Giving way when moving within a single marked lane
If a driver diverges to the left or right within a marked lane, the driver must give way to any vehicle that is in the lane.



The taxi-driver was legally required to check for your presence before pulling over to the kerb. Most do not of course.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby mikeyg63 » Sat Sep 06, 2014 6:00 pm

mikeyg63 wrote:A classic SMIDSY!



Appreciate the comments from one and all.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing! And with that I can see that I was in the wrong. It would have been more sensible to hang back after the indicator came on, in a legal sense and in common sense.

What a great medium! It's kinda like being at the pub and you do or say something stupid and your mates are the first ones to call you a boofhead.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby outnabike » Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:14 pm

mikeyg63 wrote:
mikeyg63 wrote:A classic SMIDSY!



Appreciate the comments from one and all.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing! And with that I can see that I was in the wrong. It would have been more sensible to hang back after the indicator came on, in a legal sense and in common sense.

What a great medium! It's kinda like being at the pub and you do or say something stupid and your mates are the first ones to call you a boofhead.


I reckon that the culmination of lots of near misses, many left hooks that actually happen, and incessant bad behaviour by motorists makes us react hastily at times.
But it was a great presentation.... :) You had him apologising.....good work.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby BianchiCam » Sat Sep 06, 2014 9:04 pm

Piss poor road craft from the driver.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby foo on patrol » Sun Sep 07, 2014 2:28 pm

Had a Caboolture Council garbage truck, not stop at a stop sign this morning and pull out in front of our bunch, even though we all ride with lights on. :twisted: I sprinted up along said to inform him of what I thought of his dumbarse driving and also hoping that the footage is available from one of thye riders that has a camera on the front of his bike. Then there will be an official complaint with vid, forwarded to the council. :wink:

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby g-boaf » Sun Sep 07, 2014 3:00 pm

Guy in a silver Toyota Camry this morning driving along in the bike lane! :roll: There was a cyclist ahead of him who didn't seem pleased about it either.

And I had a SMIDGAF go charging through a roundabout in front of me. I suspected she wasn't going to stop - so I was ready to get on the brakes. If I were a car or a truck, she wouldn't have done that.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby foo on patrol » Sun Sep 07, 2014 4:51 pm

Not as if it was bumper to bumper traffic, Oxford! :?

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby BianchiCam » Sun Sep 07, 2014 5:05 pm

Seems the MGIF are out in force today
I saw him coming up so I claimed the lane as you can see me pulling out to the center. I also had my arm out to show there was'nt enough room to pass.
Almost home when this nincompoop attempts a pass just on a roundabout, slam on brakes and hoofs it right with no indication either.
Was looking out for an L plate.
Sadly, this guy is actually licensed
Seriously...

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby outnabike » Sun Sep 07, 2014 5:38 pm

[quote="Oxford"]JRA to the not so LBS to get some brake pads on Friday. This is a 70kmh zone, so S144A requires a 1.5M pass, in other words just change lanes, its easier and safer. I also hardly if ever ride in non 60kmh zones, so don't even bother calibrating to 1.5M, in fact to be honest even 1.0M would suffice for me in a 70kmh zone, because most if not all 70kmh zones are dual lanes. I was going to ride on the footpath when it became available, but the first close pass shook me so much, I started watching my back in the rear view mirror and missed my opportunity to get off the road.

Anyway, videos speak for themselves. And yes they will be submitted to the QPS tomorrow.



That's is as deliberate as you can get. If one car does it out of them all, enough said. What is so hard about moving into the next lane to overtake?
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby outnabike » Sun Sep 07, 2014 5:42 pm

[quote="BianchiCam"]Seems the MGIF are out in force today
I saw him coming up so I claimed the lane as you can see me pulling out to the center. I also had my arm out to show there was'nt enough room to pass.
Almost home when this nincompoop attempts a pass just on a roundabout, slam on brakes and hoofs it right with no indication either.
Was looking out for an L plate.
Sadly, this guy is actually licensed
Seriously...




So rather than wait behind you he turned right, from the right hand side of the road into oncoming traffic. I reckon you better shift.... :)
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby BianchiCam » Sun Sep 07, 2014 7:27 pm

Actually, no
He just managed to get back in the lane, slam on brakes and make the turn.
You'd think by looking at it he did what you suggested.
This is what makes it so much more dangerous. If he'd gone and taken the turn on the oncoming side I would have just shaken my head.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Summernight » Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:20 pm

neild wrote:Riding up Victoria St in Northcote tonight, going past the Northcote pool where they have made a slight realignment of the bike lane and put in a traffic island, I'm in the bike lane, car comes up to pass me and tries to keep out of the bike lane (thankfully) and I hear this almighty bang. Look across and the driver is shaking his head because he realises that rather than take his foot off the accelerator for 2 seconds, he has clipped the traffic island with his front drivers wheel which has caused the tyre to blow and probably destroy the wheel if it's alloy.

Saw him pull into a side street and the wheel didn't look good.

Just don't get it. Instead of taking literally an extra 2 to 3 seconds he has just cost himself serious $$ and time.

Have a nice weekend.


Ahahaha... Gold! Whoops, where did that piece of road obstacle come from? :P

Red light runner on Friday night:

I had just turned left from La Trobe into Queen Street and rolled up to a red traffic light at Little Lonsdale. I was placed in the left lane. I heard the acceleration of a car behind me going faster than they should heading towards the red light I was stopped at, I turned my head and saw a car in the right hand lane that wasn't stopping for the light and seemed like it was going greater than 40kph (the speed limit).

Sure enough, this car blows through the red light I'm stopped at, nearly taking out 6 pedestrians and one car driving through its clearly green light. The only reason there wasn't a crash or skittling of pedestrians was because one of the pedestrians was aware and stopped her partner and I had my hand out saying stop as well. The green light motorist was also aware and slammed on the brakes so as not to be hit by the red light runner. It was a bit of a brown pants moment.

I didn't manage to catch up to the car after the next set of lights nor did I read the plate aloud because I was quite shocked at the time, but having a review of my rear camera footage this morning gives a clear picture of the licence plate so not sure whether I should mention it in my response to the police regarding them deciding not to issue an infringement notice to the truck driver who almost squished me into a parked car while I was riding in the dedicated bicycle lane (due to the police's response in my incident, clearly 'Sorry mate, I didn't look' is a good enough excuse for the police - so this red light runner should get off with nothing as well because he clearly wasn't looking for the traffic lights and no pedestrians or cars were injured in the red light running. :roll: ).
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby bychosis » Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:10 pm

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Mulger bill » Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:14 pm

Do it Summer, some things are too evil to let pass. High speed red running is a biggun in my book.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Summernight » Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:29 pm

Mulger bill wrote:Do it Summer, some things are too evil to let pass. High speed red running is a biggun in my book.


My faith in the system is a bit on the pessimistic side at the moment so going to the effort of burning a DVD of the red light runner and writing a letter/statement doesn't fill me with enthusiasm. I guess when my life is at stake I take it a bit more personally. But I will mention it to them.

Footage:
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Mulger bill » Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:45 pm

SEVEN seconds after the red by my count :shock: :shock: :roll:
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jules21 » Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:46 pm

i would definitely report that.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Aushiker » Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:54 pm

Summernight wrote:
Mulger bill wrote:Do it Summer, some things are too evil to let pass. High speed red running is a biggun in my book.


My faith in the system is a bit on the pessimistic side at the moment so going to the effort of burning a DVD of the red light runner and writing a letter/statement doesn't fill me with enthusiasm. I guess when my life is at stake I take it a bit more personally. But I will mention it to them.


In light of your feelings I would suggest "reporting" it directly via your Minister of Police along with an explanation of how you where treated whilst asking the Minister for the benchmark results on their new road safety policy of if you don't see all is good ... Maybe ask as well when the advertising campaign will be coming out ... :wink: .

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Last edited by Aushiker on Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Summernight » Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:55 pm

Mulger bill wrote:SEVEN seconds after the red by my count :shock: :shock: :roll:


Yeah, that's about right. I'd heard him coming, turned my head to see where he was and whether he'd hit me (he wasn't going to), then realised he wasn't stopping and told the peds to wait.
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