Australian Cycling Forums - Bicycles Network Australia

BarryTas wrote:do you?

a) lean the bike but try to keep the body upright

or

b) lean the body and try to keep the bike upright

il padrone wrote:Again, I don't know why it works.

Maybe someone with a physics background can analyze these techniques.

Leaning in Turns
To turn a bicycle, you must lean inward toward the direction of the turn. The faster you are going, and the sharper the turn, the more you must lean. You have no choice about this, for a given speed and turn radius, the center of gravity of the bike/rider must be moved sideways a particular amount or the bicycle will not balance.
What you do have control over is whether you lean the bicycle more than, less than, or the same amount that you lean your body, to get the overall center of gravity to the place that it has to go.

•Leaning the bicycle sharply while keeping your upper body more upright
This approach is popular with beginners who are scared to lean over sideways, and who feel less disoriented by keeping their bodies more upright. -- though actually, they don't. The cyclist is much heavier than the bicycle, which leans over farther, instead.

Captaining a tandem with a stoker who doesn't know about leaning in turns can be a very unsettling experience, because you must lean farther to compensate.

Keeping the upper body more upright is recommended by some racers and coaches as offering the possibility of recovering from a skid, but I don't believe it.

[I think there might be something to this. If you start to skid out, you might be able to yank the bicycle up and momentarily press the wheels harder into the road surface to gain more traction -- though the side force also might potato-chip a wheel, or roll a tubular off the rim.

Racers also sometimes drop the knee that is to the inside of the turn. Yanking the knee inward may also help ro recover from a skid.

Also see Jobst Brandt's comments, below -- John Allen.]

•Leaning the upper body sharply while keeping the bicycle more upright
This approach is popular with riders who are afraid of striking a pedal on the road. This is a particular concern for riders of fixed-gear bicycles, since they cannot coast through corners.

This technique is also recommended by some racers and coaches as offering the possibility of recovering from a skid, but I don't believe it.

[Neither do I -- but, as Sheldon says, this may be necessary to avoid a pedal strike with a fixed-gear bicycle -- John Allen.]
•Leaning the upper body and the bicycle together, keeping them in line as when riding straight.
This technique has the advantage of keeping the steering axis, tire contact patches and center of gravity all in the same plane. This preserves the proper handling characteristics of the bicycle, and makes a skid less likely. You can verify this yourself by performing an experiment suggested by Jobst Brandt:

"Some riders believe that sticking out their knee or leaning their body away from the bike, improves cornering. Sticking out a knee is the same thing that riders without cleats do when they stick out a foot in dirt track motorcycle fashion. It is a useless but reassuring gesture that, on uneven roads, actually works against you. Any body weight that is not centered over the bicycle (leaning the bike or sticking out a knee) puts a side load on the bicycle, and side loads cause steering motions if the road is not smooth. Getting weight off the saddle is also made more difficult by such maneuvers.
"To verify this, ride down a straight but rough road standing on one pedal with the bike slanted, and note how the bike follows an erratic line. In contrast, if you ride centered on the bike you can ride no-hands perfectly straight over rough road. When you lean off the bike you cannot ride a smooth line over road irregularities, especially in curves. For best control, stay centered over your bike."

JustJames wrote:Show some real commitment to your cornering!

Countersteer

Countersteer is a popular subject for people who belatedly discover or rediscover how to balance. What is not apparent, is that two wheeled vehicles can be controlled ONLY by countersteer, there is no other way. Unlike a car, a bicycle cannot be diverted from a straight path by steering the wheel to one side. The bicycle must first be leaned in that direction by steering it ever so slightly the other way. This is the means by which a broomstick is balanced on the palm of the hand or a bicycle on the road. The point of support is moved beneath the mass, in line with the combined forces of gravity and cornering, and it requires steering, counter and otherwise. It is so obvious that runners never mention it, although football, basketball, and ice hockey players conspicuously do it.

jimboss wrote:I have a question - what the hell is counter steering?

jasonc wrote:

jimboss wrote:I have a question - what the hell is counter steering?

the picture above actually shows counter-steering. the front wheel is pointed slightly to the right when going left

MattyK wrote:Another factor is that weighting the outside pedal pushes the saddle into the inside of your outer thigh (or if you are out of the saddle, loads up your hands on the steering). This effectively locks your body to the frame more rigidly, making it easier to feel what it is doing and therefore making corrective responses more intuitive.