Stages Power Meter

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Re: Stages Power Meter

Postby pagey » Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:33 pm

A real basic question.

If a crank based PM such as SRM is connected to the right crank then why is it any different to a left crank based system such as Stages?
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by BNA » Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:36 pm

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Re: Stages Power Meter

Postby r11ss » Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:36 pm

As far as I can tell the Stages is a bit like Ultegra..... Good Enough.

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Re: Stages Power Meter

Postby kb » Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:29 pm

pagey wrote:A real basic question.

If a crank based PM such as SRM is connected to the right crank then why is it any different to a left crank based system such as Stages?


Not crank, crankset == chainrings.
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Re: Stages Power Meter

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:02 am

pagey wrote:A real basic question.

If a crank based PM such as SRM is connected to the right crank then why is it any different to a left crank based system such as Stages?

Because the Stages does not measure the forces applied to the right hand crank. It's strain gauge is located on the left crank arm.

The SRM (and Quarq and Power2max) are power meters located in the crank's spider, and hence they measure the total forces being applied to/from both cranks, forces which are transmitted to the rear wheel via the spider (then chainrings, chain and cogs).
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Re: Stages Power Meter

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:10 am

And for reference to the left-right balance issue that was previously asked, I note this from the Bike Radar initial review of the Vector:

Perhaps the most interesting thing about the L/R data – which can be viewed in real time or a rolling 3sec average – is how it changes over the course of a ride. Many test riders noticed a larger discrepancy (five to 10 percent) when pedaling easy than when going hard (about one to two percent).

Clark Foy, one of the founders of the MetriGear system that Garmin bought and developed into the Vector, said that their test riders often reported differences in L/R balance.

“We have learned that it’s a dynamic difference,” Foy said. “There is often a different balance at the beginning and end of a ride, or when standing versus sitting, or at low versus high power.”
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Re: Stages Power Meter

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:41 am

and a few references since it will no doubt come up (i.e. pedalling / power asymmetry is both normal and has been known about in the scientific literature for decades):
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21055708
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21120741
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17369798
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10460126
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/979569
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Re: Stages Power Meter

Postby Trek_Arty » Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:59 am

(AT) Alex , can you do us a favour then and for those that are in the same position as me (i.e, looking to get into the power meter market & therefore considering a stages) Provide 1 Pro & 1 Con for each of the well known power meters, Putting cost aside because I can always save for a little longer.
A no B/S pro & con list would be useful if possible
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Re: Stages Power Meter

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:02 pm

Trek_Arty wrote:(AT) Alex , can you do us a favour then and for those that are in the same position as me (i.e, looking to get into the power meter market & therefore considering a stages) Provide 1 Pro & 1 Con for each of the well known power meters, Putting cost aside because I can always save for a little longer.
A no B/S pro & con list would be useful if possible

That then requires a priority or a value judgement on the individual features highlighted which may or may not reflect what's important to the user.

I did at one stage have a matrix I used in presentations about training with power, but I dont propose publishing it here.

So, for example, I'd propose listing all the relevant considerations when choosing a power meter, and then ranking a meter's performance against each, or providing the relevant data if not a ranking, e.g.:

Accuracy (this is multi-factoral, and the devil is in the detail and depends on purpose)
Precision (and/or repeatability/consistency)
User calibration
Availability
Ease of use (various elements to this, and will depend on head unit choice as well)
Installation
Firmware updates
Flexibility in usage
Compatibility (with bikes, with head units, with software)
Reliability and service life
Cost, initial and ongoing
Warranty and Service Support
Viability of company (e.g. will they be around to support in 3-5 years from now?)
2nd hand value


Then we have at least 15 on-bike power meter brands (or products that report a power number) and I've probably forgotten one or two, and many have various models that may perform differently, let alone different have price points and features:
SRM
Quarq/SRAM
Powertap
Power2Max
Rotor
Garmin Vector
Stages
Polar Look Keo
Polar WIND
G-Cog
iBike
MEP
Powercal
Pioneer
ergomo
Brim Brothers

I'd put them in following broad categories, and recognise that each falls on a spectrum:

Known, reliable track record, accuracy to a very good level for most uses, long term back up and support:
- SRM
- Quarq
- Powertap

Need more time to prove themselves before moving into above category:
- Power2Max
probably another year or so and with some more rigourous examination it may move up*
- Garmin Vector
early days, promising start after a long wait for many, but new technology.
- Stages
again early days, and with permanent accuracy caveat due to single leg measurement that means some restriction on high end useability of data, but for general training progression and overall workload tracking, and guidance on level of effort, it is likely to be fine, subject to reliability/durability. Keep in mind that proper local availability and back up not quite in place yet

Currently not meeting standard, but may still serve as a useful training tool provided one understands its limitations:
- Rotor
still reporting far too many issues, and not sure if available in Australia yet
- Polar Look Keo
too many issues, and restricted to Polar head units
- iBike, Powercal
these two non-strain gauge based power estimation devices may be helpful training aids, provided one recognises their limitations

- Polar WIND, ergomo
generally only available 2nd hand now, installation and accuracy issues for both, as well as non-existent service/support

Generally unavailable as yet (various reasons):
Pioneer, Brim Bros

Insufficient data to properly categorise:
MEP, G-Cog


* note I applied the same to Quarqs when they first arrived on the scene. It took some time before I felt they were ready to be in that category.
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Re: Stages Power Meter

Postby Trek_Arty » Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:49 pm

Thanks Alex, appreciate the time that went into that...

In your professional opinion, and i apologize if you have already answered this, would the stages not be suitable for a "Club Level B Grade" racer to use to get a total power number, then proceed to adapt training to improve this said number?
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Re: Stages Power Meter

Postby joomz » Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:53 pm

Are Stages PMs available in Australia yet? Anyone know who is/will be selling them?
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Re: Stages Power Meter

Postby RomanTheCube » Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:01 pm

Trek_Arty wrote:Thanks Alex, appreciate the time that went into that...

In your professional opinion, and i apologize if you have already answered this, would the stages not be suitable for a "Club Level B Grade" racer to use to get a total power number, then proceed to adapt training to improve this said number?


He said this right there in the large post:

but for general training progression and overall workload tracking, and guidance on level of effort, it is likely to be fine, subject to reliability/durability. Keep in mind that proper local availability and back up not quite in place yet
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Re: Stages Power Meter

Postby Trek_Arty » Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:05 pm

RomanTheCube wrote:
Trek_Arty wrote:Thanks Alex, appreciate the time that went into that...

In your professional opinion, and i apologize if you have already answered this, would the stages not be suitable for a "Club Level B Grade" racer to use to get a total power number, then proceed to adapt training to improve this said number?


He said this right there in the large post:

but for general training progression and overall workload tracking, and guidance on level of effort, it is likely to be fine, subject to reliability/durability. Keep in mind that proper local availability and back up not quite in place yet


Haha thanks for that.... may have mis read that! :oops:
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Re: Stages Power Meter

Postby Evo6point5 » Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:20 pm

There are a couple of US dealers that will still ship to Oz but not sure how you'd go with any issues pending an Aussie agent being announced. Those that I spoke to also had 6-8 waits on units (Sram).
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Re: Stages Power Meter

Postby Evo6point5 » Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:25 pm

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Re: Stages Power Meter

Postby Trek_Arty » Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:22 am

Evo6point5 wrote:Also.. Some extra info here


http://djconnel.blogspot.com.au/2013/08/?m=1


Some interesting info in there... a difference of less than 3% in avg power for the combined power number
Acceptable in my opinion when the price is considered!... bring on the Aussie Distributor!!
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Re: Stages Power Meter

Postby dale79 » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:37 am

I've had mine on for a week now, been faultless so far and power readings on par with the power tap..
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Re: Stages Power Meter

Postby Carrots » Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:31 am

Looks like we may have a winner for who will be the Australian retailer and/or distributor....

http://www.wattagecycles.com.au/category/stages
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Re: Stages Power Meter

Postby jasonc » Sat Aug 24, 2013 6:39 am

Carrots wrote:Looks like we may have a winner for who will be the Australian retailer and/or distributor....

http://www.wattagecycles.com.au/category/stages


let's see what their mark ups are like....
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Re: Stages Power Meter

Postby Xplora » Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:56 pm

TrekArty mentioned that there is a UK distributor now. Hopefully this is part of a rapidly expanding set of announcements. My knees need a better PM than a PowerCal :lol:
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Re: Stages Power Meter

Postby spokeydokes » Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:05 pm

Does anyone know anything about wattagecycles ?
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Re: Stages Power Meter

Postby dale79 » Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:22 pm

Carrots wrote:Looks like we may have a winner for who will be the Australian retailer and/or distributor....

http://www.wattagecycles.com.au/category/stages


awesome... online shop with no address listed and a mobile number.. seems like a logical choice..

FYI at .95c exchange rate, paypal fees, shipping etc the ultegra arm was $923..
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Re: Stages Power Meter

Postby Xplora » Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:45 am

viewtopic.php?f=34&t=67360&p=1011492#p1011492 Just me rabbiting on about weights. I will get a 105 arm in black - there is just no reason I can see to spend more for a weight difference of 50-75 grams.
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Re: Stages Power Meter

Postby Trek_Arty » Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:39 pm

Anyone heard any news re an Australian distributor?
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Re: Stages Power Meter

Postby joomz » Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:52 pm

I got this in a newsletter frim WWW.wattagecycles.com.au

---
·         Given the incredibly high interest we have been receiving with regard to the Stages Cycling products, we have begun accepting refundable pre-order deposits of $400. Place one today to ensure the earliest possible delivery of a Stages unit. The earliest pre-orders will be fulfilled first when stock arrives. Australian stock is expected by the end of 2013/early 2014.
---
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Re: Stages Power Meter

Postby Arlberg » Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:48 am

joomz wrote: Australian stock is expected by the end of 2013/early 2014.


Or buy one straight from the USA like I did and have it within 2 weeks.....and avoid the inevitable Australian mark up/rip off.
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