Article: Beware the Lone Wolf in Lycra

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Re: Article: Beware the Lone Wolf in Lycra

Postby Mike Ayling » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:36 am

jules21 wrote:
I ride my roadie on shared paths occasionally - usually when I'm racing on a given day. it is fitted with a bell and I use it. I'm probably an exception though.


You are not wrong about being an exception Jules!

Do have to remove the bell when racing?

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Re: Article: Beware the Lone Wolf in Lycra

Postby human909 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:57 am

Chuck wrote:The OP has plenty of form perpetuating the negative lycra stereotype. The reason for starting this thread is quite transparent.

Chuck. I don't want to perpetuate any negative Lycra stereotypes. I don't care either way. Sure I'm more a commuter, by I and many of my friends wear Lycra.

g-boaf wrote:[It's interesting that there are two parallel topics going at the moment which carry much the same negative stereotype in one form or another. Has lycra become the new replacement for mandatory helmet laws discussion? :lol:

There are elements in both that hold back cycling from the mainstream population of Australia.

Personally I would love to see cycling adopted widely across the population. From what I see some people would prefer to see cycling as a realm for the hardcore and not something for everyone. :(
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Re: Article: Beware the Lone Wolf in Lycra

Postby Daccordi Rider » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:07 am

Cycling is held back by our society being fat and lazy, if the best excuse they can come up with is that some people wear lycra or that the government wants you to protect your head then their heart really is not in it. Excuses are easy.

And the lycra is very freeing. Once you have been seen in public in lycra you will never again worry about what people think of you and what you wear. You achieve clothing zen. :lol:
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Re: Article: Beware the Lone Wolf in Lycra

Postby human909 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:17 am

Daccordi Rider wrote:Cycling is held back by our society being fat and lazy, if the best excuse they can come up with is that some people wear lycra or that the government wants you to protect your head then their heart really is not in it. Excuses are easy.


When something is fun, enjoyable and easy people don't look for excuses. Unfortunately cycling is not portrayed to be easy in this country.

Now you are starting to blame people for being lazy for not cycling. This is PRECISELY the problem! The attitude that cycling is an effort!
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Re: Article: Beware the Lone Wolf in Lycra

Postby m@ » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:20 am

Won't get into the lycra vs plain clothes debate, but I think we're in a classic damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situation when it comes to bell ringing when passing pedestrians on shared paths. I've had plenty of abuse for daring to ring the bell when approaching meandering peds who looked like they might wander into my path, but also been berated for not ringing the bell if they do make a spontaneous dash to the right as I'm about to pass...

One in particular was on a path with literally hundreds of cyclists and pedestrians; I think everyone would get pretty sick of the sound of bell-ringing quickly if every cyclist rang for every pedestrian they passed. As it was, I was taking it slow and giving plenty of space, and braked to a stop to safely avoid a collision - and copped an earful for my trouble...
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Re: Article: Beware the Lone Wolf in Lycra

Postby human909 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:24 am

m@ wrote:Won't get into the lycra vs plain clothes debate, but I think we're in a classic damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situation when it comes to bell ringing when passing pedestrians on shared paths.

110% agree! :D
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Re: Article: Beware the Lone Wolf in Lycra

Postby Daccordi Rider » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:56 am

human909 wrote:
Daccordi Rider wrote:Cycling is held back by our society being fat and lazy, if the best excuse they can come up with is that some people wear lycra or that the government wants you to protect your head then their heart really is not in it. Excuses are easy.


When something is fun, enjoyable and easy people don't look for excuses. Unfortunately cycling is not portrayed to be easy in this country.

Now you are starting to blame people for being lazy for not cycling. This is PRECISELY the problem! The attitude that cycling is an effort!


I'm not entirely sure if you are being sacastic with that last comment or not. :oops: Either way is fine :D . For lots of people cycling 2km to a shop is far more effort than they are prepared to make in an average day, sad but true. You know the people who stand still on travelators and escalators, don't use stairs to go up 1 level, that sort of thing. They will probably never get it.
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Re: Article: Beware the Lone Wolf in Lycra

Postby simonn » Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:24 pm

human909 wrote:Now you are starting to blame people for being lazy for not cycling. This is PRECISELY the problem! The attitude that cycling is an effort!


It does require more physical effort than ordering home delivered pizza, walking to the car and driving to the maccas drive through or work etc
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Re: Article: Beware the Lone Wolf in Lycra

Postby LarryLong » Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:27 pm

Alien27 wrote:If your on a shared path you need to expect peds to do unexpected things, walk two abreast and listen to music. They live in a different world to us where meandering along a path puts them in a nice relaxed mood. What are we going to do, ban music, talking and exercising in pairs while talking?

I do the cooks river as part of my commute to work. I fit the 'lone wolf' description however I use a bell and I slow right down when passing. With the elderly, kids and peds that look like they aren't really experienced I really slow right down literally to jogging or running pace.

We have to slow right down, not 20kmph, but right down to running pace when passing. We have to always be able to stop within our line of site, if you cant then your going two fast around that corner. We also should make an effort to be friendly, thank people for moving across and reassure parents that your not a threat to their toddler 30m up the path peddling like mad and doing random changes of direction with his training wheels on. A simple 'good day for it' or 'he's doing well, he'll be off those training wheels soon' and you can see the fear in their faces replaced with relief as they realise you are nice and not about to try to get past the little fella until he well out of harms way.

imo unfortunately this stereotype is as accurate as the commo/hilux ute driving tradie stereotype. It's up to us to reverse this stereotype, we cannot expect peds on shared paths to always be aware of us approaching from behind, they will always be entitled to listen to music and they will always walk two abreast chatting. I see nothing wrong with that and believe it is up to us to make allowances for this and be polite while doing it.


That's the solution to the problem, if anybody is looking to solve it.
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Re: Article: Beware the Lone Wolf in Lycra

Postby g-boaf » Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:04 pm

LarryLong wrote:That's the solution to the problem, if anybody is looking to solve it.


You can do that all you want. Rinse and repeat. And it won't change a thing. You can be going 8km/h, and some people will NOT move across - at all. And then they'll laugh when you have to stop, get off the bike and walk around them.

I do the right thing, thank people for moving over - but it doesn't really change anything. That is their shared path and they certainly aren't required to move over for anyone in their minds.
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Re: Article: Beware the Lone Wolf in Lycra

Postby Marx » Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:12 pm

“Keep left unless overtaking” does not exist in the minds of many peds on a shared pathway.
So the bike rider’s response to this can only be to do their best & achieve a pass for their own safety & carry on, as the pedestrian has made no attempt to meet halfway.
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Re: Article: Beware the Lone Wolf in Lycra

Postby outnabike » Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:29 pm

Daccordi Rider wrote:Cycling is held back by our society being fat and lazy, if the best excuse they can come up with is that some people wear lycra or that the government wants you to protect your head then their heart really is not in it. Excuses are easy.

And the lycra is very freeing. Once you have been seen in public in lycra you will never again worry about what people think of you and what you wear. You achieve clothing zen. :lol:


All I see here is another opinion piece, just written by a different writer, from a predetermined viewpoint.
From my position as Mr average, my heart is into riding, but I must admit to having had to retrain myself to ride every where on errands and such. It sure gets easier as the days go by.
A couple of years ago on my first ride of one kilometre I could hardly stand when I got back home. But the hardest thing was to overcome the fear of the road, not the cycling. And this is what my wife says as well. Nothing to do with being fat and lazy at all.
Because of me taking up riding I have encouraged at least six others into the fray, and I didn't do it by calling them fat and lazy.Though I must say some of us are a little short for our weight. :D
In the two years of riding, the only push-bike riders I have come across have unfortunately been dressed in Lycra.

Its all wide open roads out here and not too many seem to slow down for a cyclist. If cyclists don't slow for pedestrians on paths, all we do is visit the motorists behaviour onto pedestrians.

I have to say that the Lycra clothing certainly does not look to be freeing , and in fact looks like it would be hot to wear. And not too many with out drop bars seem to wear the stuff.
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Re: Article: Beware the Lone Wolf in Lycra

Postby simonn » Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:33 pm

outnabike wrote:I have to say that the Lycra clothing certainly does not look to be freeing , and in fact looks like it would be hot to wear.


Looks can be deceptive. It is much cooler (in temperature terms :wink:) than "normal" clothing.
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Re: Article: Beware the Lone Wolf in Lycra

Postby g-boaf » Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:40 pm

outnabike wrote:
Daccordi Rider wrote:Cycling is held back by our society being fat and lazy, if the best excuse they can come up with is that some people wear lycra or that the government wants you to protect your head then their heart really is not in it. Excuses are easy.

And the lycra is very freeing. Once you have been seen in public in lycra you will never again worry about what people think of you and what you wear. You achieve clothing zen. :lol:


All I see here is another opinion piece, just written by a different writer, from a predetermined viewpoint.
From my position as Mr average, my heart is into riding, but I must admit to having had to retrain myself to ride every where on errands and such. It sure gets easier as the days go by.
A couple of years ago on my first ride of one kilometre I could hardly stand when I got back home. But the hardest thing was to overcome the fear of the road, not the cycling. And this is what my wife says as well. Nothing to do with being fat and lazy at all.
Because of me taking up riding I have encouraged at least six others into the fray, and I didn't do it by calling them fat and lazy.Though I must say some of us are a little short for our weight. :D
In the two years of riding, the only push-bike riders I have come across have unfortunately been dressed in Lycra.

Its all wide open roads out here and not too many seem to slow down for a cyclist. If cyclists don't slow for pedestrians on paths, all we do is visit the motorists behaviour onto pedestrians.

I have to say that the Lycra clothing certainly does not look to be freeing , and in fact looks like it would be hot to wear. And not too many with out drop bars seem to wear the stuff.


Hmm, all I see here is another opinion piece, just written by a different writer, from a predetermined viewpoint. :) (sorry, but you had to admit, you left yourself open for that). :D

Try some proper cycling gear - it's not boiling hot, it's much better than normal clothing, it doesn't flap about and it wicks away sweat, which helps a lot. That's what it is designed for. But it isn't all equal, some of it is awful, some of it is brilliant.

Good on you for giving it a go.
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Re: Article: Beware the Lone Wolf in Lycra

Postby il padrone » Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:50 pm

I can well agree with your initial reaction to riding. It may have been 36 years since I first began the commute to Monash Uni, but I can still (dimly) recall the thrashed feeling after the first ride - and I was 17yo. It took me 45 mins to get to the uni, but after about 4 weeks I had cut that back to 25

outnabike wrote:I have to say that the Lycra clothing certainly does not look to be freeing , and in fact looks like it would be hot to wear.

It really is not hot, as long as you get the right lightweight fabrics. Most of them are a wicking fabbric that takes perspiration to the surface to eveporate rather than make you all sweaty.
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Re: Article: Beware the Lone Wolf in Lycra

Postby jules21 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:06 pm

outnabike wrote: But the hardest thing was to overcome the fear of the road, not the cycling. And this is what my wife says as well. Nothing to do with being fat and lazy at all.

i remember getting back into 'serious' road riding a few years ago after a break of 15. i was s-scared and kept thinking "how was i ok with this back then?" then you slowly become more confident with it and realise that cars are not going to run up the back of you (usually). as you become more confident and assertive, you feel less like a rabbit in the headlights and more like part of the traffic.
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Re: Article: Beware the Lone Wolf in Lycra

Postby il padrone » Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:13 pm

jules21 wrote:as you become more confident and assertive, you feel less like a rabbit in the headlights and more like part of the traffic.

Even more as you discover that your vulnerability gives you the power to control the traffic, strange as that seems.
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Re: Article: Beware the Lone Wolf in Lycra

Postby exadios » Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:53 pm

Nobody wrote:You get a strange attitude from peds that they own the path and just tolerate your presence at best. Similar attitude that you get from cars on the road. If it's so difficult and/or dangerous to share, there are many thousands on kilometres of footpaths in NSW for peds to use theoretically free of cyclists. Too bad I can't say the reciprocal for cyclists. :roll:


The reason that there are very few cycle only paths is that cyclists do not have the political clout to have them built. So, from the political point of view, pedestrians do own the path and we ride on the shared paths at their pleasure. The sooner you understand this the better off we will all be.
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Re: Article: Beware the Lone Wolf in Lycra

Postby il padrone » Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:06 pm

exadios wrote:The reason that there are very few cycle only paths is that cyclists do not have the political clout to have them built.

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=60367&start=25#p906698
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Re: Article: Beware the Lone Wolf in Lycra

Postby jules21 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:06 pm

Mike Ayling wrote:
jules21 wrote:I ride my roadie on shared paths occasionally - usually when I'm racing on a given day. it is fitted with a bell and I use it. I'm probably an exception though.


You are not wrong about being an exception Jules!

Do have to remove the bell when racing?

nope, but it does turn heads when i accidentally flick it during a race :)
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Re: Article: Beware the Lone Wolf in Lycra

Postby il padrone » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:25 pm

jules21 wrote:nope, but it does turn heads when i accidentally flick it during a race :)


Liquigas – Cannondale rider Peter Sagan point to his warning system installed by Team mechanics. When things get hairy hit the panic bell.
http://westrivercycles.com/cannondale-panic-bell/
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Re: Article: Beware the Lone Wolf in Lycra

Postby exadios » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:20 pm

il padrone wrote:
exadios wrote:The reason that there are very few cycle only paths is that cyclists do not have the political clout to have them built.

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=60367&start=25#p906698


Not the case in WA. In this state I doubt whether the cycle community could get 1 Km of path built. That will change as more people take up cycling.
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Re: Article: Beware the Lone Wolf in Lycra

Postby RonK » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:31 pm

roller wrote:Liberal Senator Cory Bernardi yesterday sparked outrage after he called for the common cycling clothing to be banned following an earlier close shave on a Sydney bike path by a lycra clad man.

Fancy quoting Bernardi about anything. The man has zero credibility, and is such an embarrassment to his own political party that they had to give him the boot.
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Re: Article: Beware the Lone Wolf in Lycra

Postby il padrone » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:56 pm

exadios wrote:Not the case in WA. In this state I doubt whether the cycle community could get 1 Km of path built.

Umm, I thought you had some pretty substantial paths alongside your northern freeway.... and a coastal path as well. In fact way back in 1983 when I was over in Perth there was a reasonable network around the river and into Kings Park :?

I'm not suggesting cycle lobby groups would build them, nor did their actions even lead to their development directly. In Melbourne pro-cycling local councillors and local MPs played a big role in the development. But my main point there was that they were introduced as firstly bicycle paths (with the lack of legislative follow-through to make them bike-only). Once the walkers got their claws on them all of a sudden "shared" became "walkers first". A cycling asset was substantially lost to the dog-walkers and picnickers.

We have numerous paths, that run for substantial distances and have parallel (often no-bike) walking trails, that should have been set out as 'bike-only' paths.
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Re: Article: Beware the Lone Wolf in Lycra

Postby exadios » Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:30 pm

il padrone wrote:
exadios wrote:Not the case in WA. In this state I doubt whether the cycle community could get 1 Km of path built.

Umm, I thought you had some pretty substantial paths alongside your northern freeway.... and a coastal path as well. In fact way back in 1983 when I was over in Perth there was a reasonable network around the river and into Kings Park :?

I'm not suggesting cycle lobby groups would build them, nor did their actions even lead to their development directly. In Melbourne pro-cycling local councillors and local MPs played a big role in the development. But my main point there was that they were introduced as firstly bicycle paths (with the lack of legislative follow-through to make them bike-only). Once the walkers got their claws on them all of a sudden "shared" became "walkers first". A cycling asset was substantially lost to the dog-walkers and picnickers.

We have numerous paths, that run for substantial distances and have parallel (often no-bike) walking trails, that should have been set out as 'bike-only' paths.


These paths are shared paths - principally "PSPs". They are not cycle paths. So, in order to use these paths cyclists must give way to pedestrians, etc.

As you point out what you identify as "bicycle paths" in Vic are not because of the "lack of legislative follow-through". And why was there a lack of legislative follow through? Because cyclists lacked the political clout to make it happen. So, it seems to me that the situation in Vic is the same as WA.
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