To Ding or not to Ding
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Re: To Ding or not to Ding
Postby Mulger bill » Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:39 pm
London Boy 29/12/2011
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Re: To Ding or not to Ding
Postby twizzle » Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:56 pm
Gee... just clip on an exposed cable, eh? I think Tiagra still has exposed cables.il padrone wrote:http://www.rbbell.com/
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Re: To Ding or not to Ding
Postby il padrone » Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:18 pm
No, but I use one of these. Works quite well, no problems. I might be fussy and want a slightly deeper "ting", but that's only because I have the rather lurvely Lowrider bell, with its mellow "Ding DONG" tone, on the other bike.Mulger bill wrote:Anybody run one of THESE?
"An unjustified and unethical imposition on a healthy activity."
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Re: To Ding or not to Ding
Postby Mulger bill » Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:31 pm
Thanks again for putting the Lowrider vid in, that IS a more than rather lurvely sound. Methinks that'd work on the FG and the Velogear Bell Grande would slot nicely onto the Urban Assault Voodoo.
Shaun
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Re: To Ding or not to Ding
Postby KenGS » Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:39 pm
http://www.mirrycle.com/headset_mount.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Helmets! Bells! Rego!
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Re: To Ding or not to Ding
Postby bychosis » Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:50 pm
Noticed peds walking up ahead, one on the right of the path, looking like they were wandering, not walking. Slowed, dinged and expected some sort of reaction, just not what I got. Mum heads off the path to the right and then grabs daughter to pull her off to the right too into my path. Emergency brake, evade, "whoa, go left, go left" response "sorry, sorry, sorry" from mum. Think they were walking along in a world of their own and the motherly instinct to protect child caused more problems than they should have.
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Re: To Ding or not to Ding
Postby twizzle » Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:05 pm
I'm not so stupid these days to expect that people will behave rationally.
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Re: To Ding or not to Ding
Postby twizzle » Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:12 pm
Ummm... given we aren't allowed to hit peds., what would you have done if they had just ignored you? Because it looked to me that you were expecting them to move out of your way and were going too quick to stop.bychosis wrote:Here is an example of why I don't always ding.
Noticed peds walking up ahead....
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Re: To Ding or not to Ding
Postby il padrone » Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:25 pm
Go Pro? The wide angle lens does tend to exaggerate the speed of travel. Looked to me like he was on the brakes, did come to a near stop, and would have completed it if they had not moved.twizzle wrote:Ummm... given we aren't allowed to hit peds., what would you have done if they had just ignored you? Because it looked to me that you were expecting them to move out of your way and were going too quick to stop.
"An unjustified and unethical imposition on a healthy activity."
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Re: To Ding or not to Ding
Postby jcjordan » Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:30 pm
Regardless of who is wearing them none should loose awareness. They are not turn our only sense and these days with cars that are so quite that even on a back road you don't hear them till they have gone past are not one that I put much reliance onRonK wrote:Only pedestrians though - cycling wearers never loose awareness.twizzle wrote:The general assumption (based on experience) is that headphones result in complete loss of awareness for the wearer.
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Re: To Ding or not to Ding
Postby bychosis » Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:41 pm
Yes, GoPro, travelling 26km/h at the time. After riding the path for several years commuting I can usually pick when something is awry with the pedestrians and am prepared for evasive action. In this case slowed, dinged, covered brakes... then used them to great effect. Had the daughter not been dragged right I would have slipped through the gap safely at probably 15-17km/h under brakes. As it was the phone GPS got me as low as 13km/h.il padrone wrote:Go Pro? The wide angle lens does tend to exaggerate the speed of travel. Looked to me like he was on the brakes, did come to a near stop, and would have completed it if they had not moved.twizzle wrote:Ummm... given we aren't allowed to hit peds., what would you have done if they had just ignored you? Because it looked to me that you were expecting them to move out of your way and were going too quick to stop.
Edited for actual speeds.
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Re: To Ding or not to Ding
Postby outnabike » Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:40 pm
Hi bychosis,I would not approach a pedestrian at that speed. And the daughter "was not dragged right"bychosis wrote:Yes, GoPro, travelling 26km/h at the time. After riding the path for several years commuting I can usually pick when something is awry with the pedestrians and am prepared for evasive action. In this case slowed, dinged, covered brakes... then used them to great effect. Had the daughter not been dragged right I would have slipped through the gap safely at probably 15-17km/h under brakes. As it was the phone GPS got me as low as 13km/h.il padrone wrote:Go Pro? The wide angle lens does tend to exaggerate the speed of travel. Looked to me like he was on the brakes, did come to a near stop, and would have completed it if they had not moved.twizzle wrote:Ummm... given we aren't allowed to hit peds., what would you have done if they had just ignored you? Because it looked to me that you were expecting them to move out of your way and were going too quick to stop.
Edited for actual speeds.
And I reckon you are mistaken as to sheep like behaviour. The girl instinctively followed mum who was quickly off the path. Seems pretty natural to me. My daughter would go to mum I would say.
In the rush to avoid the impending collision, you saw the lady take her daughters hand at the last minute to get her off the path quickly.
But it was the daughter that went right of her own volition prior to any contact with mum. And quickly!
No probs though, and a good miss.
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Re: To Ding or not to Ding
Postby CaptainFur » Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:16 am
I have since changed to a horn and love it, I can honk earlier knowing that they will hear it with out getting a shock and usually get a smile from the people I am passing.
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Re: To Ding or not to Ding
Postby il padrone » Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:29 am
Seems pretty normal for wide, open bike path riding speed to me. 26kmh general speed, then slowing as I approach any pedestrians. If the pedestrians are predictable, there's good room and I've dinged them with the bell, I will normally go past at ~20kmh; a bit less if it is a tighter space.outnabike wrote:Hi bychosis,I would not approach a pedestrian at that speed. And the daughter "was not dragged right"
Strange statement?? Your second sentence is a textbook definition of sheep-like behaviouroutnabike wrote:And I reckon you are mistaken as to sheep like behaviour. The girl instinctively followed mum who was quickly off the path.
"An unjustified and unethical imposition on a healthy activity."
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Re: To Ding or not to Ding
Postby casual_cyclist » Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:08 am
Agreed. And there is plenty of room to bail onto the grass too if necessary. I have done that when I couldn't be bothered waiting for the peds to sort themselves out (not to avoid a collision) but then I'm running 32s so it's no hassle for me.il padrone wrote:Seems pretty normal for wide, open bike path riding speed to me. 26kmh general speed, then slowing as I approach any pedestrians. If the pedestrians are predictable, there's good room and I've dinged them with the bell, I will normally go past at ~20kmh; a bit less if it is a tighter space.outnabike wrote:Hi bychosis,I would not approach a pedestrian at that speed. And the daughter "was not dragged right"
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Re: To Ding or not to Ding
Postby citywomble » Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:37 am
Bailing onto the grass is a bad option. The grass is the peds domain not yours.
In the road reserve that would be 'driving' onto the verge - not permitted, and in a park that is even worse. Local laws do not permit any vehicle to drive (or ride) off of the permitted path.
In WA an Indian tourist, part of a group on a shared path, was killed when he stepped onto his safe refuge and a cyclist rode (bailed onto the grass) knocked him over, hit head on path, died. Bad idea, keep off the grass and on the path, especially when around peds - that is where they run to just like the daughter in the vid.
On a shared path always treat all peds like a give way sign, slow down to about 10k, and if you can't give 'a metre matters' then treat them as a stop sign and wait. That is how to share.
A cyclists obligation is to give way - whatever. A pedestrians is only not to obstruct deliberately.
Bikes, single file only and keep left. Peds no actual restrictions - in WA anyway are permitted (not encouraged) to walk on the right facing oncoming vehicles (read bikes) just like they must on the road.
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Re: To Ding or not to Ding
Postby twizzle » Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:05 am
Ah, O.K. wide angle. Throwing the words "emergency brake" into the original description also adds to the look of speed, I did watch it four times trying to get a handle on how fast it happened.bychosis wrote:Yes, GoPro, travelling 26km/h at the time. ....
However - 13kph sounds slow but is still ~3.6 metres per second. And I'm afraid I also saw it as the daughter heading right on her own before being grabbed at the last second.
Dunno what to think about this whole thing - the mother was obviously scared for her daughters safety at the end.
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Re: To Ding or not to Ding
Postby arkle » Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:51 am
You dung far, far, far too late. I'd have been dinging from MUCH further back. You give them almost no time to respond at that speed.bychosis wrote:Here is an example of why I don't always ding.
Noticed peds walking up ahead, one on the right of the path, looking like they were wandering, not walking. Slowed, dinged and expected some sort of reaction, just not what I got. Mum heads off the path to the right and then grabs daughter to pull her off to the right too into my path. Emergency brake, evade, "whoa, go left, go left" response "sorry, sorry, sorry" from mum. Think they were walking along in a world of their own and the motherly instinct to protect child caused more problems than they should have.
arkle
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Re: To Ding or not to Ding
Postby twizzle » Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:37 am
...real cyclists don't have squeaky chains...
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Re: To Ding or not to Ding
Postby newie » Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:01 pm
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Re: To Ding or not to Ding
Postby InTheWoods » Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:14 pm
+1. I think I hear a faint ding (a failed one?) at 0:09 then a louder one, and the pedestrians are in panic mode cos you're on them by 0:11. If you give people time they'll sort themselves out much more safely, and won't go home having just had the crap scared out of them by a cyclist on a shared path. You had enough time to give a ding much further back - maybe you did and I just can't hear it - but I can hear the others when you get really close. Given that the path is narrow and they don't have to get off the path to get out of your way (eg. they could go single file or walk closer together), it seems that if you needed to emergency brake, you were going too fast.arkle wrote:You dung far, far, far too late. I'd have been dinging from MUCH further back. You give them almost no time to respond at that speed.bychosis wrote:Here is an example of why I don't always ding.
Noticed peds walking up ahead, one on the right of the path, looking like they were wandering, not walking. Slowed, dinged and expected some sort of reaction, just not what I got. Mum heads off the path to the right and then grabs daughter to pull her off to the right too into my path. Emergency brake, evade, "whoa, go left, go left" response "sorry, sorry, sorry" from mum. Think they were walking along in a world of their own and the motherly instinct to protect child caused more problems than they should have.
arkle
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Re: To Ding or not to Ding
Postby twizzle » Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:20 pm
Yes, the discussion comes across as a bit harsh, but the vid makes it look questionable even if the reality isn't.
Given the actual speeds as indicated if the follow-up post, it was all quite slow speed, and it *is* a good example of where using a bell has bad consequences.
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Re: To Ding or not to Ding
Postby arkle » Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:38 pm
No it isn't. It's an example of using a bell badly. Regardless of speed, 2.5 seconds to hear a quiet ding, recognise it's meaning, turn, look, decide to move and move is an impossibly short time.twizzle wrote:People talking often don't hear a damned thing.
Yes, the discussion comes across as a bit harsh, but the vid makes it look questionable even if the reality isn't.
Given the actual speeds as indicated if the follow-up post, it was all quite slow speed, and it *is* a good example of where using a bell has bad consequences.
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Re: To Ding or not to Ding
Postby AndrewBurns » Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:47 pm
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