Cyclists Threaten timid little man in LandCruiser...

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Re: Cyclists Threaten timid little man in LandCruiser...

Postby find_bruce » Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:11 am

ColinOldnCranky wrote:Mervyn Hull has pretty much outed himself and made it fairly easy to filling the gaps - his credibility, how a "toot" is holding the horn down continuously, what his understanding is of the law and his expectations of what cyclists should do to accomodate him, his generic criticism of cyclists etc. Have a listen to him in an interview at http://blogs.abc.net.au/files/mervyn-hu ... lists-.mp3

Worth having a listen. After this I feel justified in inferring the fault as belonging to him and to question anything he says alleging bad cyclists. He fits a stereotype of the angry cyclist hater who dresses up his bigotry in self serving arguments, largely irrelevant to the specific circumstances.

It only took some gentle questioning for his story to change from a toot to using the horn continuously.

Perhaps his biggest slip though was letting out that the cyclists real offence, in his eyes at least, was that they were on the road which is for cars.

I looked but have been unable to find anything that says that Dornough Terrace is reserved for cars :roll:
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by BNA » Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:15 am

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Re: Cyclists Threaten timid little man in LandCruiser...

Postby il padrone » Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:15 am

vbplease wrote:I must confess I tooted a cyclist the other day for claiming a lane when he shouldn't have..

So a vehicle (bike) was travelling a bit below the speed limit...... grow up and deal with it mate, rather than honking your warning device for a needless reason. This always comes across as discourtesy.

Imagine if your grannie, or your 2 year old was walking slowly along the footpath and some dude comes up behind and starts complaining and shouting abuse at them to get out of the way? Would you reckon that'd be acceptable behaviour? :?
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Re: Cyclists Threaten timid little man in LandCruiser...

Postby foo on patrol » Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:17 am

Riiight you know riiight you know they came from all directions and were waiting for me. Ummm deeerrrr what a great grasp of English he has. :roll:

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Re: Cyclists Threaten timid little man in LandCruiser...

Postby foo on patrol » Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:27 am

il padrone wrote:
vbplease wrote:I must confess I tooted a cyclist the other day for claiming a lane when he shouldn't have..

So a vehicle (bike) was travelling a bit below the speed limit...... grow up and deal with it mate, rather than honking your warning device for a needless reason. This always comes across as discourtesy.


This works both ways! Clowns shouldn't be riding in the middle of the road unless they are turning right and if they are, stick your arm out to indicate your intentions.
I see to many wanting to ride out wide when there is ample room to be closer to the left. It is all about commonsense and being curtious to all. :wink:

It is not hard to indicate your intentions for turning left and right and this is a big bug bear of mine about most cyclists. You sit at cross roads or T intersections waiting for them to go past and then they turn into the street you're waiting to come out of. :roll: Unfortunately we are our own worst enemies. :x

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Re: Cyclists Threaten timid little man in LandCruiser...

Postby il padrone » Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:35 am

foo on patrol wrote: Clowns shouldn't be riding in the middle of the road unless they are turning right and if they are, stick your arm out to indicate your intentions.

Middle of the lane (as vbplease stated) is quite OK and legal on multi-lane roads, and even on two-lane roads if it is "impracticable" to keep left. The judgement call on all of this is that of the rider of the bike. I was not there but if you don't like it, just suck it up and travel a little slower. You, in your motor vehicle, will not be in any great risk of danger.

Like I said, needless horn use is tantamount to abuse.
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Re: Cyclists Threaten timid little man in LandCruiser...

Postby jasonc » Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:26 am

il padrone wrote:
foo on patrol wrote: Clowns shouldn't be riding in the middle of the road unless they are turning right and if they are, stick your arm out to indicate your intentions.

Middle of the lane (as vbplease stated) is quite OK and legal on multi-lane roads, and even on two-lane roads if it is "impracticable" to keep left. The judgement call on all of this is that of the rider of the bike. I was not there but if you don't like it, just suck it up and travel a little slower. You, in your motor vehicle, will not be in any great risk of danger.

Like I said, needless horn use is tantamount to abuse.


the road through the tennyson tennis centre is 1 lane each way. In a small section I'd call it 1.5 wide (each way). This would be where the actual tennis courts are. The rest of the road is wide enough for 1 vehicle.
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Re: Cyclists Threaten timid little man in LandCruiser...

Postby boss » Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:32 am

Beeping a horn almost always comes across as an act of aggression.

As far as innapropriate lane claiming goes... It really is an individual decision and unless you have all the facts (ie riding behind them at the same speed on a similar bike) you can't judge.

There is one road I ride where I will defacto claim a lane (1-1.5m off the curb) as the road surface is very average. Every now and then I get tooted. Invariably I catch them at the lights and ask what the rush is...
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Re: Cyclists Threaten timid little man in LandCruiser...

Postby il padrone » Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:50 am

jasonc wrote:the road through the tennyson tennis centre is 1 lane each way. In a small section I'd call it 1.5 wide (each way). This would be where the actual tennis courts are. The rest of the road is wide enough for 1 vehicle.

Just the very sort of road where claiming the lane is necessary for a cyclist's safety.... because hugging the gutter only invites close shaves by many drivers and they're oh so happy to push you right off your bike in the process :evil:
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Re: Cyclists Threaten timid little man in LandCruiser...

Postby jamesn184 » Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:51 am

Well last time I checked you can only use your horn in case of a emergency... so keeping your hand on the horn is rather illegal is it not?
And not to mention the guy sounds like a uneducated git and really as the interview went on couldn't keep his story straight....
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Re: Cyclists Threaten timid little man in LandCruiser...

Postby RonK » Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:54 am

vbplease wrote:on the Brisbane river loop at the Tennyson tennis center. Speed limit is 40, said cyclist is sitting in the middle of the 1.5x normal width (one way) lane doing 30kph.. I shouted out to him to move over.

For a few hundred metres through the tennis centre? What was your rush?
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Re: Cyclists Threaten timid little man in LandCruiser...

Postby jasonc » Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:05 am

RonK wrote:
vbplease wrote:on the Brisbane river loop at the Tennyson tennis center. Speed limit is 40, said cyclist is sitting in the middle of the 1.5x normal width (one way) lane doing 30kph.. I shouted out to him to move over.

For a few hundred metres through the tennis centre,? What was your rush?



found this on youtube



you can see a bit of the tennis centre dash from 1:43 to 1:52. as you can see there are even traffic calming devices.
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Re: Cyclists Threaten timid little man in LandCruiser...

Postby RonK » Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:14 am

jasonc wrote:you can see a bit of the tennis centre dash from 1:43 to 1:52. as you can see there are even traffic calming devices.

Yes, the tennis centre is a pedestrian and residential area, hence the 40kph speed limit. Drivers should stay on the main road, not rat-run through it.
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Re: Cyclists Threaten timid little man in LandCruiser...

Postby ldrcycles » Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:25 am

il padrone wrote:
Paddles wrote: http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Trave ... ochure.pdf

The most important ones here I think are:

- no more than 2 abreast
- you must keep left and can only "take a lane" (normally left, but right if making a right turn) if there is 2 or more lanes of traffic travelling in the same direction where you are riding

Ah, now don't go skating over that one :roll:

It's keep as far left as practicable. That means if, in the judgement of the cyclists, there is some impracticability (eg. potential safety hazard) they need not stay hard left. Most cyclists on here should be aware of this rider to the rule.


+1 il padrone, i was just about to say the same thing. Bicycles are vehicles too.
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Re: Cyclists Threaten timid little man in LandCruiser...

Postby Marto » Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:50 am

il padrone wrote:
Paddles wrote: http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Trave ... ochure.pdf

The most important ones here I think are:

- no more than 2 abreast
- you must keep left and can only "take a lane" (normally left, but right if making a right turn) if there is 2 or more lanes of traffic travelling in the same direction where you are riding

Ah, now don't go skating over that one :roll:

It's keep as far left as practicable. That means if, in the judgement of the cyclists, there is some impracticability (eg. potential safety hazard) they need not stay hard left. Most cyclists on here should be aware of this rider to the rule.


That's right. The Qld TMR brochure is derived from the legislation (slightly "muddier" terminology), but the brochure has to be quoted correctly also.

The brochure states:
"Keeping left and overtaking
You must:
• ride as near as is safely possible to the far left
side of the road. On a multi-lane road or a road
with two or more lines of traffic travelling in the
same direction as you, you can occupy a lane and
travel in the right hand lane when necessary (for
example, to make a right turn) "

The legislation states:

"[S]129 Keeping to the far left side of a road
(1) A driver on a road, other than a multi-lane road, must drive as
near as practicable
to the far left side of the road."

So it differs from "you must keep left" in an important way.
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Re: Cyclists Threaten timid little man in LandCruiser...

Postby RonK » Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:54 am

ColinOldnCranky wrote:Mervyn Hull has pretty much outed himself and made it fairly easy to filling the gaps - his credibility, how a "toot" is holding the horn down continuously, what his understanding is of the law and his expectations of what cyclists should do to accomodate him, his generic criticism of cyclists etc. Have a listen to him in an interview at http://blogs.abc.net.au/files/mervyn-hull---angry-cyclists-.mp3

Worth having a listen. After this I feel justified in inferring the fault as belonging to him and to question anything he says alleging bad cyclists. He fits a stereotype of the angry cyclist hater who dresses up his bigotry in self serving arguments, largely irrelevant to the specific circumstances.

Well, having listened to Hull's almost incoherent ramblings, I now understand that the incident actually occurred on the ascent of Highgate Hill at Gladstone Road, where there are in fact two lanes. Yes, this is a slow section for many cyclists, and yes other cyclists may ride two abreast (bunches maybe even three abreast) to overtake them, but there is clearly plenty of room for overtaking. Besides, Hull is going to turn left in a few hundred metres, so what is the rush to overtake.

Then he goes on about the intersection...some cyclists turning left, some going straight ahead. This is the intersection he's complaining about (at the traffic lights). There are two through lanes for motor vehicles and one for bikes, and there is a left turn lane. Most cyclists turn left. There is even a service road which many cyclists use to catch a breath or two instead of using the turning lane. Around the corner, after about 50 metres (packed with parked cars) the road quickly plunges down Dornoch Terace (see the streetview on my previous post).

If Hull can't cope with any intersection like this one which seems to provide for all traffic situations, then its time he handed his driving license in.

It seems to me that many motorists are much more aggressive towards cyclists than they are to other motorists because they don't expect cyclists to be able to catch them and hold them to account for their actions. No doubt it is a terrible fright when they are delayed by traffic and the cyclist actually does catch up with them and returns fire.
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Re: Cyclists Threaten timid little man in LandCruiser...

Postby il padrone » Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:24 am

jasonc wrote:you can see a bit of the tennis centre dash from 1:43 to 1:52. as you can see there are even traffic calming devices.

Crikey!!! With that sort of road architecture of course the cyclist was claiming the lane :o
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Re: Cyclists Threaten timid little man in LandCruiser...

Postby il padrone » Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:31 am

RonK wrote:Then he goes on about the intersection...some cyclists turning left, some going straight ahead. This is the intersection he's complaining about (at the traffic lights). There are two through lanes for motor vehicles and one for bikes, and there is a left turn lane. Most cyclists turn left. There is even a service road which many cyclists use to catch a breath or two instead of using the turning lane. Around the corner, after about 50 metres (packed with parked cars) the road quickly plunges down Dornoch Terace (see the streetview on my previous post).

If Hull can't cope with any intersection like this one which seems to provide for all traffic situations, then its time he handed his driving license in.

Yes, I looked that up too, when he mentioned Gladstone Rd, and I thought the same thing about his driving competency :roll:
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Re: Cyclists Threaten timid little man in LandCruiser...

Postby neoppg » Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:38 am

Ok folks. Just to set the record straight on what happened on Wednesday morning. Some of you may have seen Fridays paper with a little more on the truth of Merv's Swervin!!!

His initial report did say Dornoch terrace and a little later in the day on abc radio he admits to staying on the horns and in fact it did happen on Gladstone road at Highgate hill. Strange, he drives that road every day and still his memory failed him.

Before I go on and get any comments from people that weren't even there. The facts are

1: it's a dedicated bike lane which is quite clearly marked.
2: there were over 20-30 cyclists proceeding up that strip at that time when he approached!

I was amongst one of the first riders he beeped (if you could call it that) I heard the continuos horn at the bottom of Gladstone road, looked around and saw the monster coming up in the left lane with absolutely no attempt whatsoever ever to move into the right lane. Now, I am local to that spot and travel it in a car quite often. I do see some absolutely stupid manoeuvres up there at times. In this case everyone was in a nice single file & 2 abreast in places. When he passed me he brushed my right hand side and stayed on the horns pretty much all the way up the hill until he obviously turned into Dornoch Tce. I saw him within millimetres from just about every rider up the hill. I would imagine that he obviously had some more confrontation up the top of the hill before he turned left and got a little confused/

All the public comments about boys in Lycra and stuff and how come only other cyclists are coming forward is pretty much because there must not have been any other cars there..... Which makes me think, why was he persistent in staying in the left lane and intimidating every rider at the time????? And in a dedicated bike lane????? Simple, by his interviews he has had some bad experiences with cyclist and at that time he wasn't backing down and took that 2.something tonne car and used it as a possible death machine on a bunch of innocent people.

We all are motorists as well as cyclists, but Merv with the Nerv clearly had some pre meditated thoughts that morning. How he did not collect someone going up that hill still amazes me. I don't think he actually realises just how close he was to everyone and I certainly don't consider him to have any skill behind the wheel of a car to be able to put it in that situation at all..... Remember. It's 2 lanes and the right hand lane was free, and approx 6:30 in the morning. Not peek time at all.
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Re: Cyclists Threaten timid little man in LandCruiser...

Postby outnabike » Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:05 pm

Hi neoppg,so glad that no one actually went to ground.
That is about as chilling as it can get. That bloke was obviously intending to do physical harm to you cyclists. I hope that there were a few with cameras in the group to bring that idiot to book.
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Re: Cyclists Threaten timid little man in LandCruiser...

Postby neoppg » Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:45 pm

outnabike wrote:Hi neoppg,so glad that no one actually went to ground.
That is about as chilling as it can get. That bloke was obviously intending to do physical harm to you cyclists. I hope that there were a few with cameras in the group to bring that idiot to book.


Unfortunately not. I do believe they will work there way into the group though. Safe investment IMO
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Re: Cyclists Threaten timid little man in LandCruiser...

Postby il padrone » Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:33 pm

Could I suggest that just 2-3 witnesses to Merv the Perv's handiwork should:

a) contact ABC Radio with their story
b) make a statement to Qld Police about road rage on Gladstone Rd. - driving dangerously, unnecessary use of the horn, failing to travel fully in one lane (ie lane-splitting).

Going by this bloke's aggression and his very public complaints, the welfare of the Brisbane cycling community would just about demand it.

Good to see that The Australian took a different more balanced view about it. Don't bother readng the comments though - they're as feral as the Feral Hun's :o :|
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Re: Cyclists Threaten timid little man in LandCruiser...

Postby neoppg » Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:48 pm

il padrone wrote:Could I suggest that just 2-3 witnesses to Merv the Perv's handiwork should:

a) contact ABC Radio with their story
b) make a statement to Qld Police about road rage on Gladstone Rd. - driving dangerously, unnecessary use of the horn, failing to travel fully in one lane (ie lane-splitting).

Going by this bloke's aggression and his very public complaints, the welfare of the Brisbane cycling community would just about demand it. Good to see that The Australian took a different more balanced view about it.


I will be at abc radio on Monday morning.
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Re: Cyclists Threaten timid little man in LandCruiser...

Postby The 2nd Womble » Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:01 pm

neoppg wrote:
il padrone wrote:Could I suggest that just 2-3 witnesses to Merv the Perv's handiwork should:

a) contact ABC Radio with their story
b) make a statement to Qld Police about road rage on Gladstone Rd. - driving dangerously, unnecessary use of the horn, failing to travel fully in one lane (ie lane-splitting).

Going by this bloke's aggression and his very public complaints, the welfare of the Brisbane cycling community would just about demand it. Good to see that The Australian took a different more balanced view about it.


I will be at abc radio on Monday morning.

They called you yesterday? Looking forward to meeting you and Sara on Monday :)
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Re: Cyclists Threaten timid little man in LandCruiser...

Postby vbplease » Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:32 pm

il padrone wrote:
vbplease wrote:I must confess I tooted a cyclist the other day for claiming a lane when he shouldn't have..

So a vehicle (bike) was travelling a bit below the speed limit...... grow up and deal with it mate, rather than honking your warning device for a needless reason. This always comes across as discourtesy.

Without having ridden/driven this road I don't think you're getting the full picture.. between the traffic calmers the road widens to 1.5x normal lane width, the speed limit is 40kph which I intend to do, the cyclist was doing 30kph in the middle. This is committing an offense by not keeping as far left as practical on a one lane road without intending to turn right, as per Qld road rules. Curb hugging is not needed - there is plenty of room for a cyclists to be 1m from the curb and an overtaking car to be 1m clear of him. He was just being greedy.. sharing the road goes both ways you know.

I didn't want to toot him.. I yelled out twice and he chose to ignore me. Myself and 99% of other cyclists (when riding solo) keep to the left on this road, not sure why can't?
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Re: Cyclists Threaten timid little man in LandCruiser...

Postby il padrone » Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:36 pm

This goes to the heart of what the problem is - motorists think they are driving quite safely as long as they don't hit anyone. That's all that is required. Courtesy and consideration for other road users goes out the window :roll:

The Australian wrote:Laughing off the cyclists' allegations, Mr Hull insisted he was driving sensibly.

"I can tell you now, I didn't clip anyone," he said.
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