Broke chain once - where should I break it now?

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Broke chain once - where should I break it now?

Postby columbo » Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:59 am

Hi Everyone,

I recently bought and installed a 2011 Shimano CN-5700 chain on my roadie. These chains come with a special plastic pin, which they recommend is used to break the chain when installing it. I now need to replace my front derailleur and must once again break the chain. Unfortunately, I do not know where the plastic pin is located in the chain, or even whether I can or should break the chain there.

Does anyone know where I should break this chain to avoid damaging it?


Thanks
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by BNA » Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:49 am

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Re: Broke chain once - where should I break it now?

Postby il padrone » Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:49 am

I do not believe that the pin you fitted was plastic. It should have been the standard Shimano breakable joining pin. You need to break the chain at a point other than this pin - usually pretty easy to determine as the pin looks different to all the others - rather than a flat end it will have a recess in the end. Details on fitting are given in the tech docs for the RD here.

Your best solution to this problem is to get yourself one of the various removable 'quick-links' available, and the cheapest way to buy them is to get them with the chain - they come free with all SRAM, KMC and Connex chains. In other words, don't use Shimano :P
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Re: Broke chain once - where should I break it now?

Postby human909 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:42 am

+1

You are going to have to buy a new pin or a quick link or a new non shimano chain. The latter is the least hassle now and in the future.
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Re: Broke chain once - where should I break it now?

Postby birdbrain » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:31 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GsJe32U3Ww

You can buy a new pin from any lbs.
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Re: Broke chain once - where should I break it now?

Postby il padrone » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:46 pm

New pin - $2.32 :shock:

Your LBS will probably charge you $5 - $10 for this tiny bit of metal.

Connex chain link - $2.60 - (oops, discontinued). This link is re-useable. You're not recommended to, but I have even used it on more than one chain successfully. Will still be $10 - $12 at the LBS - extortionate pricing, but what's new with Aussie distributors :roll:

[edit] The Connex 10sp is $7.96 from Wiggle. Nope, in Australia - $29.92 for the 10 speed one. WOW!! Really glad I don't use 10 speed :|
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Re: Broke chain once - where should I break it now?

Postby ironhanglider » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:04 pm

Or get two for $7.43

View item

it can be handy to have another as a spare.

I thought that the regular Shimano pins were dimpled but the joining pins were flat, either way there are lots of one type but not the other. If you plan on using a joining pin, push out a regular pin and replacing it with a joining pin. If you plan on using a joining link then I would suggest pushing out the old joining pin.

The reason for this is that the link joined with the joining pin is the weakest link in the chain. If you are going to dispose of the outer plates anyway to replace them with the joining link then it makes sense to get rid of the weakest link.

Cheers,

Cameron
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Re: Broke chain once - where should I break it now?

Postby eeksll » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:20 pm

you should be able to find the pin by looking closely at all the pins. If you can't locate any difference on the front side, look at the rear side. ON MINE it is a bit bigger and flat, the original pins has a pattern on the inside of the pin, I can also only locate mine from the bike side.

I would replace it with a chain link, for the exact reason you need to do it now .... as mentioned above the cost diff is negligible and you can carry a spare with you. Unless you already got a pin ......

Some FD are held together with a screw, you might be able to unscrew it and slip the chain on (I dont actually know what the screw is for) see here. I personally would not do it that way, in case I warped the FD somehow ....
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Re: Broke chain once - where should I break it now?

Postby il padrone » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:44 pm

eeksll wrote:Some FD are held together with a screw, you might be able to unscrew it and slip the chain on (I dont actually know what the screw is for) see here.

You may have been distracted by the FD and were not thinking about the frame :?:
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Re: Broke chain once - where should I break it now?

Postby columbo » Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:34 pm

Wait a second. Apart from il padrone's response, everyone else seems to be suggesting I buy a new chain link. Why is that? Can't I simply break the chain at a point other than at the joining pin, and simply reconnect the chain using the pin I pulled out? Is it dangerous to do so?
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Re: Broke chain once - where should I break it now?

Postby il padrone » Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:43 pm

colombo wrote:Can't I simply break the chain at a point other than at the joining pin, and simply reconnect the chain using the pin I pulled out?

This used to be the standard practice..... 25-30 years ago. Shimano indexed gearing changed all that.

You certainly can do this. Your chain may last for months like this..... or it may break after a short time, usually at a very inopportune moment. Shimano (and all brands) using indexed gear systems have chains which have special pins to enable the chain to shift under load without coming apart. When the chain links are removed the pin's profile gets damaged and it is much more likely the pin will get forced out.

Shimano pin showing the profile ridges
Image


Oh-ohh! Getting way too technical for my liking :o Are you sure your chain is the CN5700, or is it this assymetrical CN5701 ?? It seems the pins for these chains looks even different again.



Much more reliable to get the joining pin to suit..... or use a quicklink. What I do. Once again, sure glad I don't use 10sp or 11sp :P
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Re: Broke chain once - where should I break it now?

Postby ironhanglider » Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:57 pm

columbo wrote:Wait a second. Apart from il padrone's response, everyone else seems to be suggesting I buy a new chain link. Why is that? Can't I simply break the chain at a point other than at the joining pin, and simply reconnect the chain using the pin I pulled out? Is it dangerous to do so?


Why links?
Pins are a single use item. You need to be able to store them where you can find them, or you are faced with paying LBS price if you are in a hurry. They need to be installed with a proper tool and even then it is not fool proof. Links can be fitted without tools and the the connection is closer to fool proof. (There are some quality fools out there though :D). They also give you the opportunity to pull the chain off on later occasions especially for cleaning.

Re-using a non joining link (like the old protruding pin-type chains) is a much weaker join, particularly under a twisting load. Front gear changes under pressure whilst cross-chained will find out the weakness sooner or later. It is most likely to break when under a lot of pressure and the sudden lack of resistance will usually end badly, not least for any plans for children. :wink:

Cheers,

Cameron
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Re: Broke chain once - where should I break it now?

Postby jacks1071 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:20 pm

columbo wrote:Hi Everyone,

I recently bought and installed a 2011 Shimano CN-5700 chain on my roadie. These chains come with a special plastic pin, which they recommend is used to break the chain when installing it. I now need to replace my front derailleur and must once again break the chain. Unfortunately, I do not know where the plastic pin is located in the chain, or even whether I can or should break the chain there.

Does anyone know where I should break this chain to avoid damaging it?


Thanks


Personally I would push out the joining link, you can find them pretty easily if you wipe the chain and look carefully and I'd use a Sram Powerlock to join it.

The joining pins are always the weakest link, every chain I've had fail or come close to it was a result of the joining link. The last thing I'd want is to introduce a 2nd weak point.

I'm sure someone will chime in who's got 5 of them holding their chain together for over 10,000kms... But not for me, a broken chain can result in a pretty serious crash.
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Re: Broke chain once - where should I break it now?

Postby columbo » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:52 am

Thanks for your input. I should add that when I first installed this chain, I made a mistake and manually detached and reattached a couple of its links by reusing the pins I pushed out. I suppose this means that the chain is irreversibly weaker at these joints and I therefore need to buy a new chain.

Also, my existing chain is a CN-5701.

I am thinking of buying another CN-5701 and this quick link. I would then cut the chain down, attach the quick link using the one-time pin that Shimano supplies, and then be free to break the chain using the quick link whenever I need to.

Is this the best way to go about this? I don't want to risk my chain breaking under load, as I have heard horror stories about what can happen. Or should I get another chain that comes with a quick link? I don't mind getting a slightly heavier chain, but I value smooth shifting and minimal friction.
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Re: Broke chain once - where should I break it now?

Postby il padrone » Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:03 am

You will probably be fine with the existing chain for some time, however if the fact that you have removed a pin(s) and reattached them has you worried then a new chain will resolve your worries. How many pins did you refit?

columbo wrote:I am thinking of buying another CN-5701 and this quick link. I would then cut the chain down, attach the quick link using the one-time pin that Shimano supplies, and then be free to break the chain using the quick link whenever I need to.

Is this the best way to go about this?

It is the way to do it..... however you will not need to use the Shimano pin at all. It is just discarded (or sold to a poor Shimano die-hard) as the quicklink joins two inner plate sections all by itself.
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Re: Broke chain once - where should I break it now?

Postby jacks1071 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:29 am

Absolutely just buy a new chain. Don't use the shimano connecting link at all, the quick link replaces the joining pin so you use one or the other - not both.

These are the joiners I recommend:

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/sram-powerlock- ... pack-of-4/

Many of the other types don't LOCK into place, you can actually un-do them by hand and I've seen several of them come un-done.
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Re: Broke chain once - where should I break it now?

Postby Big_Red » Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:56 am

You could also use a 10sp KMC missing link too. I got one of these from a franchise type LBS for $7 when i was in a hurry to fix my 105 chain after breaking it and couldn't wait 2 weeks for wiggle to send me a new chain (no spares) :oops:. They have a gold or silver finish and "lock in". Since ordered 3x ultegra chains ($25 each) and will just use the KMC link next time i need to replace chain
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Re: Broke chain once - where should I break it now?

Postby JBark » Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:25 pm

Big_Red wrote:You could also use a 10sp KMC missing link too.


This is what I use, and since KMC makes Shimano chains anyway, I figure their missing link is the way to go. I bought a 6-pack on Amazon for about $10 a while back, just so I'd always have an extra or two laying around, plus one to carry with me.
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