Volvo Cyclist avoidance system

open topic, for anything cycling related.

Re: Volvo Cyclist avoidance system

Postby gorilla monsoon » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:31 pm

il padrone wrote:
gorilla monsoon wrote:Nice thought. So why do so many people end up dead and injured each year? Must be that safe driving and proper driver training everyone puts to such good use.

Don't bag-out the electronics systems until you have tried them and see/feel how they work.

I think you're missing the point here. When the electronic system fails (fails to detect, or fails to respond in the desired manner.... or you fail to activate it) drivers must be able to drive safely and with appropriate skill. Ignoring this is simply negligent but the trouble is, with all our daily driver distractions, that is what drivers are sorely tempted to do.


No, I'm not missing the point and having driven a number of cars fitted with crash avoidance systems I can tell you that they have very wide visual ranges on their cameras so failure to detect or failure to respond in the desired manner is extremely difficult. And they cannot be activated or deactivated - they simply operate while the host car is moving.

Australian drivers do lack skill, intelligence and manners and most lack any sort of true ability so this - "must be able to drive safely and with appropriate skill" -is nothing more than a nice idea that rarely translates into reality.

Personally I think that, as a rider, I'd put more faith in Volvo/Subaru/Mercedes-Benz/Volkswagen/etc etc electronic technology than I would in the skill levels of the average Australian driver.

And remember, we are not just talking about adult riders who have roadcraft but also about kids who lack any real commonsense or innate understanding of road rules and simply ride into intersections or across red light pedestrain crossings or pop out of side streets and head-off on the wriong side of the road.

Volvo, unlike many of us, is thinking laterally and is to be applauded for this kind of breakthrough technology. I'm guessing that within the next decade these systems will be on the majority of cars. If Volkswagen can put a crash avoidance system as standard on a $14,000 small car then why aren't such systems on all cars?
Some days you are a big, strutting rooster, some days you are a bit chicken and some days you are just a complete cocque. Roger Ramjet: 2009 Giant CRX3 Spockette: 2009 Trek FX 7.3 (WSD, property of Mrs Monsoon) Lady Penelope: 2011 Avanti Cadent 1.0 TdF
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by BNA » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:37 pm

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Re: Volvo Cyclist avoidance system

Postby Summernight » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:37 pm

Well, Google has a car that can drive itself. Why aren't all cars automatic like Google's one? It would prevent stupid driver error.

All improvements in safety technology should be applauded. Good on Volvo.
Let's put it in all cars like they are doing with other safety technologies.
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Re: Volvo Cyclist avoidance system

Postby il padrone » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:51 pm

Summernight wrote:Well, Google has a car that can drive itself. Why aren't all cars automatic like Google's one? It would prevent stupid driver error.

Driverless Cars Get Mixed Responses
The majority of motorists (815 of 1,088 participants) believe that focus should be redirected from making cars better to making drivers themselves safer. Although around half of respondents (500 of 1,088) feel that driverless cars are a good initiative for the future.

One aspect of advanced car technology is that vehicles would be unable to exceed the speed limit. Half of respondents think this is an attractive quality in the driverless car, whilst the other half consider it a disadvantage.


It was a Disney dream of the 50s - a long time coming :wink:

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Summernight wrote:All improvements in safety technology should be applauded. Good on Volvo.
Let's put it in all cars like they are doing with other safety technologies.

Didn't have you pegged as a Volvo driver, Summernight :P
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Re: Volvo Cyclist avoidance system

Postby il padrone » Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:05 pm

gorilla monsoon wrote:Personally I think that, as a rider, I'd put more faith in Volvo/Subaru/Mercedes-Benz/Volkswagen/etc etc electronic technology than I would in the skill levels of the average Australian driver.

You have seen that video of the Volvo demonstration test that I posted earlier??


gorilla monsoon wrote:And remember, we are not just talking about adult riders who have roadcraft but also about kids who lack any real commonsense or innate understanding of road rules and simply ride into intersections or across red light pedestrain crossings or pop out of side streets and head-off on the wriong side of the road.

Strangely enough this does not seem to be at all a great concern in the Netherlands. They deal with it through children's bicycle training in an appropriate staged manner.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
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Re: Vovlo Cyclist avoidance system

Postby human909 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:23 pm

gorilla monsoon wrote:That wasn't rude. Far from it, in fact. I can demonstrate rudeness if you want but I don't think you will like it.

And the point is you are making assumptions about an electronic driving aid you patently know nothing about but which might one day keep you from getting spread across the front of a car.


You seem to be wrongly assuming that I'm against electronic driving aids. I didn't say this.
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Re: Vovlo Cyclist avoidance system

Postby gorilla monsoon » Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:43 pm

human909 wrote:
gorilla monsoon wrote:That wasn't rude. Far from it, in fact. I can demonstrate rudeness if you want but I don't think you will like it.

And the point is you are making assumptions about an electronic driving aid you patently know nothing about but which might one day keep you from getting spread across the front of a car.


You seem to be wrongly assuming that I'm against electronic driving aids. I didn't say this.


I didn't say you were against them, I said you were discussing something about which you had no knowledge. A very big difference.
Some days you are a big, strutting rooster, some days you are a bit chicken and some days you are just a complete cocque. Roger Ramjet: 2009 Giant CRX3 Spockette: 2009 Trek FX 7.3 (WSD, property of Mrs Monsoon) Lady Penelope: 2011 Avanti Cadent 1.0 TdF
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Re: Volvo Cyclist avoidance system

Postby Summernight » Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:44 pm

il padrone wrote:
Summernight wrote:Well, Google has a car that can drive itself. Why aren't all cars automatic like Google's one? It would prevent stupid driver error.

Driverless Cars Get Mixed Responses
The majority of motorists (815 of 1,088 participants) believe that focus should be redirected from making cars better to making drivers themselves safer. Although around half of respondents (500 of 1,088) feel that driverless cars are a good initiative for the future.

One aspect of advanced car technology is that vehicles would be unable to exceed the speed limit. Half of respondents think this is an attractive quality in the driverless car, whilst the other half consider it a disadvantage.


Oh no!!! You mean I could never speed ever again!! That's just outrageous!!! [/ sarcasm]

il padrone wrote:
Summernight wrote:All improvements in safety technology should be applauded. Good on Volvo.
Let's put it in all cars like they are doing with other safety technologies.

Didn't have you pegged as a Volvo driver, Summernight :P


I'm not. I don't wear glasses and am more than happy to pretend to pick on Volvo drivers like the rest of us. :P
I also like the parking assist in those new whatever branded cars (including Fords I believe). Doesn't mean I'll buy a Ford. VW maybe. Or I'll wait until Subaru brings it out and I'll buy their car.

Actually, to be honest my dream car is a fully electric Ferrari-esque sports car. The Tesla has been on my radar for a while although I don't have a spare $200,000-$300,000. Anyone willing to help me out with this 'investment'? :lol:
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Re: Vovlo Cyclist avoidance system

Postby human909 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:38 pm

gorilla monsoon wrote:I didn't say you were against them, I said you were discussing something about which you had no knowledge. A very big difference.


Whats gotten the bee in you bonnet? Why are you trying to pick a fight. I wasn't in fact discussing anything nor claiming knowledge about something.

You seem to be simply intent on being rude and offensive. :roll:
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Re: Vovlo Cyclist avoidance system

Postby Mulger bill » Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:35 pm

zero wrote:In any case its only an assist and clearly not to be used as a feature for controlling the car.

Now we just have to convince smokeboxers that it isn't a chance for more facebook time...
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: Volvo Cyclist avoidance system

Postby Ross » Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:45 am

gorilla monsoon wrote:
Sydguy wrote:Anyway it is a total cop out, there should be no substitute for safe driving and proper driver training.

JM


Nice thought. So why do so many people end up dead and injured each year? Must be that safe driving and proper driver training everyone puts to such good use.

Don't bag-out the electronics systems until you have tried them and see/feel how they work.


Because they don't drive safely and have no/poor driver training. Just because someone has a licence to drive doesn't mean they are skilled in driving.

Electronic driver aids such as this and other more common ones like ABS brakes, traction control, stability control and the like can dumb driving down with people relying on these to prevent collisions (most times they are collisions, not accidents) rather than having to actually think, react and use judgement and skill themselves.
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Re: Volvo Cyclist avoidance system

Postby gorilla monsoon » Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:25 am

I'd disagree, Ross. Electronic driving aids actually make driving much safer and I'd rather be with them than without them. Most have their thresholds set quite high. Tell me the last time you activated the ABS, TC or ESC while you were driving.
And having driven a number of cars with radar-operated cruise control and collision avoidance systems I'll take those any time.
Some days you are a big, strutting rooster, some days you are a bit chicken and some days you are just a complete cocque. Roger Ramjet: 2009 Giant CRX3 Spockette: 2009 Trek FX 7.3 (WSD, property of Mrs Monsoon) Lady Penelope: 2011 Avanti Cadent 1.0 TdF
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Re: Volvo Cyclist avoidance system

Postby Nobody » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:00 am

gorilla monsoon wrote:Tell me the last time you activated the ABS, TC or ESC while you were driving.
Ectavated ya what??
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[No, I'm not having a go at anyone. Just thought thought this would be funny, that's all.]
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Re: Volvo Cyclist avoidance system

Postby warthog1 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:50 pm

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Re: Volvo Cyclist avoidance system

Postby RobertFrith » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:36 am

Regarding the 2010 demonstration, Volvo suggest that the blow up dummies weren't "seen" by the radar until too late. Seems fair, they're essentially balloons. In any case they stopped before the dummy in 9 out of 12 tests and reduced speed prior to hitting the dummy in at least one of the three where contact was made. A car without the technology would have hit the dummy at speed in 12 out of 12 instances in the same test.

The survey taken of motorists was interesting but panders to vanity and opinion. Machines are doing a better job of driving trains and haulpaks on minesites than humans ever did. Machines do a better job of lots of things that need constant attention, quick recognition, analyses and rapid response. The work on driverless cars is fascinating. For years we imagined we'd need special roads (a la the Disney illustration). Today we have the luxury of throwing massive amounts of computing power at the problem and having the car understand the road the same way humans do. The big difference is the machine is much less likely to suffer from fatigue or inattention.

Aside from the safety benefits faster reaction times mean that driverless cars can travel closer together and at more even speeds, reducing road congestion.
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Re: Volvo Cyclist avoidance system

Postby gorilla monsoon » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:51 pm

The test failure goes further than that. Apparently the dummy blew over in the wind (or something similar) so, in the absence of anyone from the Volvo technical department, the PR person set it up and hoped it was all good. It wasn't. That's the very short version of a very long story.
Some days you are a big, strutting rooster, some days you are a bit chicken and some days you are just a complete cocque. Roger Ramjet: 2009 Giant CRX3 Spockette: 2009 Trek FX 7.3 (WSD, property of Mrs Monsoon) Lady Penelope: 2011 Avanti Cadent 1.0 TdF
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