How bright is to bright?

open topic, for anything cycling related.

Re: How bright is to bright?

Postby InTheWoods » Thu May 23, 2013 12:17 pm

diggler wrote:I'm amazed you could spend $500 on a light.

I spent $7 on a light with 56 LEDs and I feel a bit guilty about the brightness.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/130871432466 ... 1439.l2649


The high power LEDs in good quality lights are a whole different kettle of fish. The LED alone can cost $5-$10 in bulk direct from the LED manufacturer. A cree xm-l will safely handle 10 watts of input, the 56 little leds in that light are very low power leds. They will probably be very blue in tint. And one will stop working every few minutes :)

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Re: How bright is to bright?

Postby Chris249 » Thu May 23, 2013 2:28 pm

Duplicate post
Last edited by Chris249 on Thu May 23, 2013 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There are many types of racing cyclists. There is the sprinter, the rouleur, the stagiaire, the danser, the descender.... sadly, I'm a mediocre. :-(

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Re: How bright is to bright?

Postby Chris249 » Thu May 23, 2013 2:37 pm

trailgumby wrote:
Chris249 wrote:
iaintas wrote:I am sorry mr car driver, just look away for a second and keep driving straight like you would for a truck coming the other way.

Dont whine and whinge that your eyes hurt, im trying to stay alive here, you suckers with 50lm lights shining at your front wheel can collect the kangaroos for me if you want or come to central qld and be my designated "bullbar" if thats what you want......

Rant over!


So basically it's stuff me, because I can't arsed getting some decent lights that allow me to see properly?


Fixed that for you. :|

Ayups are hardly possum burners. Narrow beam, and they put out a fraction of that available from a car headlight on low beam. I do wonder how you ride on the road with cars at night. :?

I suggest you would do better to need to take ownership of *your own* safety and making sure *you* can see in the full range of situations, and shell out for the appropriate hardware.

Is ranting at people who've already gone where you should be working for you (I mean that in terms of generating effective outcomes)?


What? Whether I or anyone else has bright lights or not is completely irrelevant when it comes to the question of possum burners endangering the lives and safety of those who share the bike paths. It's not the light used by the viewer that is the problem, it is the light being zapped into their eyes by others.I share the road with cars perfectly well, because they don't drive around with their lights on high beam and they don't drive down narrow PSPs.

I have never say Aye-Ups per se are the problem since they can be used responsibly. The problem is people who set them up so that other road users have "to look away" to avoid being dazzled, which means that they cannot be looking forward where they should be. It's a particular user issue, not a general hardware one.

And as far as rants, it seems that you may have done more ranting about other people's lights than anyone here?

BTW I have no idea why you think that I don't use a reasonable lighting setup - you don't know what lights I run so what makes you the qualified to condemn it?
There are many types of racing cyclists. There is the sprinter, the rouleur, the stagiaire, the danser, the descender.... sadly, I'm a mediocre. :-(

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Re: How bright is to bright?

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Fri May 24, 2013 12:33 pm

My regular and satisfactory head lamp/tail lamp combo packed up about then days ago.

The replacement arrived yeasterday.It is the upgraded version of what I had (Vis 360 plus) which, amoong other things, has increased the headlamp from 110 lumens to 250 lumins.

While the old Vis 360 was fine, I do have to say that the extra brightness and the wider dispersion gives a much better result for me behind the light as it now has a better spread of brightness. (The old one really did weigh far too much at the centre.) I imagine that it will be a little more irritating to those coming towards me but still tolerable.

While I'm about it, some kudos to Elite Racing Cycles in Northbridge. Ordered as asked, called me back when it arrived, price and product exactly as stated. Should not be noteworthy but I have had some pretty slack cycle shops. I'm only a second time customer.
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Re: How bright is to bright?

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Fri May 24, 2013 12:42 pm

InTheWoods wrote:
diggler wrote:I'm amazed you could spend $500 on a light.

I spent $7 on a light with 56 LEDs and I feel a bit guilty about the brightness.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/130871432466 ... 1439.l2649


The high power LEDs in good quality lights are a whole different kettle of fish. The LED alone can cost $5-$10 in bulk direct from the LED manufacturer. A cree xm-l will safely handle 10 watts of input, the 56 little leds in that light are very low power leds. They will probably be very blue in tint. And one will stop working every few minutes :)

Reminds me of the razor blade wars. "You need the new mach 16 razor with 16 blades, 15 just doesn't cut it any more..."


I'd go along with InTheWoods. I have what looks like very much the same light branding and it is not a dazzler. Dazzlers all seem to use a single hi-power LED in my limited experience. The 56LED lamp wound up doing service in the lift up hood of my BBQ until I found something better for even that. At least none of the LEDS ever failed though and all the platic housing held up fine. I think it now sits in the bottom of my spares box. There is always a use for these things though and $7 isn't a lot to pay.
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Re: How bright is to bright?

Postby trailgumby » Fri May 24, 2013 1:38 pm

Chris249 wrote:What? Whether I or anyone else has bright lights or not is completely irrelevant when it comes to the question of possum burners endangering the lives and safety of those who share the bike paths. It's not the light used by the viewer that is the problem, it is the light being zapped into their eyes by others.I share the road with cars perfectly well, because they don't drive around with their lights on high beam and they don't drive down narrow PSPs.

Au contraire, what lights you use is not only relevant, but 75% of the issue.

If you had lights good enough to see by, instead of "see me" flashers, your irises will be adjusted smaller to suit the higher constant light levels from your own lights.

Therefore:
a) You won't be as painfully dazzled by the bright oncoming lights, as the sudden net increase hitting your retinas is very much reduced
b) Once they've passed, you've got your own see-by lights to see with - instead of being dumped into pitch black.

This resolves most of the problem in my experience, both as a driver and cyclist.

You have some valid points in the rest of your post. Aim is important. Slightly different issue from "too bright" though.

Regarding my assumptions, I'm pretty sure that you don't have "see by" lights, just flashers? With advancing emitter and battery technology and such cheap prices I am coming more firmly to the view that you are not looking after yourself properly without "see by" lights.
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Re: How bright is to bright?

Postby trailgumby » Fri May 24, 2013 2:02 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote:While I'm about it, some kudos to Elite Racing Cycles in Northbridge. Ordered as asked, called me back when it arrived, price and product exactly as stated. Should not be noteworthy but I have had some pretty slack cycle shops. I'm only a second time customer.

Exactly as it should be done. Positive reinforcement never hurts. :)
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Re: How bright is to bright?

Postby Red Rider » Mon May 27, 2013 11:40 pm

I have been using the Supernova Airstream (International version) for a few weeks now. What appealed to me when considering the purchase is the all-in-one design, German designed and built, and quality optics.

The build quality is fantastic, solid construction and it looks very spiffy sitting on the bars. And it sits there securely. I had some reservation about the o-ring fixing, but it doesn't move on the rougher roads at all. The power/mode button and 2.1mm DC charging jack feel like they will last a long time.
It is still air temperature even after an hour of riding, which gives me confidence the circuitry wont cook itself.
The light is not blindingly bright, but bright enough for road riding. It provides a far more even spread of light where you need it instead of the common blob of light that is super-bright in the centre but then fades out to the edges. It does an amazing job of cutting off the light at the edges of the beam. Although I haven't used it in the hills yet, I'd be confident in using it at pace for familiar descents.
The lithium-ion battery life is rated at 2.5 hours on the brightest setting. On my first use it lasted longer than this, closer to 3 hours, I'll see what it is like after a few discharges. The battery life indicators are clear and accurate, the final red light flashing for about 5 minutes before the light itself changes to flashing mode.

It provides a balance of brightness, burn-time and light-weight in a quality package.
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Re: How bright is to bright?

Postby NhiTrac » Tue May 28, 2013 8:21 am

ColinOldnCranky wrote:My regular and satisfactory head lamp/tail lamp combo packed up about then days ago.

The replacement arrived yeasterday.It is the upgraded version of what I had (Vis 360 plus) which, amoong other things, has increased the headlamp from 110 lumens to 250 lumins.

While the old Vis 360 was fine, I do have to say that the extra brightness and the wider dispersion gives a much better result for me behind the light as it now has a better spread of brightness. (The old one really did weigh far too much at the centre.) I imagine that it will be a little more irritating to those coming towards me but still tolerable.

While I'm about it, some kudos to Elite Racing Cycles in Northbridge. Ordered as asked, called me back when it arrived, price and product exactly as stated. Should not be noteworthy but I have had some pretty slack cycle shops. I'm only a second time customer.


A quick question for you please. The new Vis360, does the rear flasher still step down a notch in brightness when you switch to flash mode? I've been using the previous model for over a year and that's always annoyed me as I only ever have it on "hey look at me" mode.

Lastly, does the 250 lumens apply to flash mode, too?

Cheers
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Re: How bright is to bright?

Postby Howzat » Tue May 28, 2013 9:10 am

trailgumby wrote:If you had lights good enough to see by, instead of "see me" flashers, your irises will be adjusted smaller to suit the higher constant light levels from your own lights.

I'm not so sure about that, TG. There are Australian rules and regulations on car headlights, governing both how they are made and how they can be used, specifically because contraction of the pupils cannot adjust to the dynamic range of gently reflected illumination vs looking directly at a misdirected, dazzling beam.

We don't have similar laws on bike lights yet. That's mainly because the technology to make them bright enough to dazzle others is recent, and the law typically lags technology. So our current situation is one-part wild-west mixed with one part technological arms race. 3600 undirected lumens, anyone?

If this case follows precedent, we probably won't pass laws or standards for bike lights to reduce the risk of dazzling others until after enough people have been hurt.
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Re: How bright is to bright?

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Tue May 28, 2013 3:04 pm

NhiTrac wrote:

A quick question for you please. The new Vis360, does the rear flasher still step down a notch in brightness when you switch to flash mode? I've been using the previous model for over a year and that's always annoyed me as I only ever have it on "hey look at me" mode.

Lastly, does the 250 lumens apply to flash mode, too?

Cheers


I'll give a you a bit of a review as there are a few differences between the Vis360 and the replacement Vis360+.

The Vis360+ has three settings just as the Vis360 does.

However the flashing rear no longer does a sharp flash. Instead it pulses from max bright to noticeably less (but still) bright and max bright again. I'd rather a sharp flash as I think it is more noticeable. However I think the rear is far brighter than the Vis360 was so it is probably still just as effective.

The rear flashing is at max when the headlight is at max. Also when the headlight is set to flashing. Rear only reduces when you set the headlight on reduced brightness.

After about 50 minutes the headlight will keep on setting itself to the lesser brightness, and flash every so often just as the Vis360 does.

I always found the Vis360 to be a little too weighted to a narrow centre. The Vis30+ has a wider centre spread of the headlight. Vision on the periphery is also improved.

You can also switch the rear flasher off which is it's setting when you unpack it. Toggling the switch on results in it being on but is still slaved to the headlight. Once you have decided if you need the rear flasher you only have to operate the main switch thereafter.

I obviously can't measure the output but perceptually it seems that the flashing mode is at the same intensity as full brightness. Pretty hard for a motorist forward of you to miss seeing you.

I reckon that the main switch does not require as much pressure either - it was the hard-to-press switch in fact that packed up on my Vis360 - it physically broke from operating.

Battery life is not an issue. I fully charged it on day one and then deliberately discharged it on the next morning. Still got hours of use.

About the only thing I would change onthe Vis360 is the pulsing rear. Nevertheless I would unhesitatingly go for the new model over the old.

It's catalog price is the same as the Vis360. Sweet.
Last edited by ColinOldnCranky on Tue May 28, 2013 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How bright is to bright?

Postby kukamunga » Tue May 28, 2013 8:50 pm

Just thought I'd offer this up:
Graham Bradshaw, Executive Officer, Retail Cycle Traders Australia wrote:In the Autumn 2013 Issue of 'Cycle Trader News':

"The Standards Australia committee looking at bicycle related standards in Australia is looking at bicycle lighting, partly because the existing standard is nearly 20 years old, and partly because there has been a rise in complaints, by motorists, pedestrians and cyclists, about overly bright lights dazzling them. High powered lights are fine for off road adventures, but on shared paths and road lanes too bright a light is an issue. There is a balance between being seen and dazzling others, my pet dislike is helmet mounted headlights, as when the user turns to look at you, all trace of any night vision you may have developed is gone!

Body mounted tail-lights can also be a problem as when the rider leans forward to take the handlebars, the light is pointing at the sky and not effective at all. It will be interesting to see what proposals the committee comes up with, and what comments are received during the public comment period"
So, has anyone tried any of the Fenix BT Series Bike Lights yet?
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Re: How bright is to bright?

Postby NhiTrac » Tue May 28, 2013 9:53 pm

Really appreciate the review there COnC.

Thanks again.
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Re: How bright is to bright?

Postby KonaCommuter » Wed May 29, 2013 1:03 pm

kukamunga wrote:So, has anyone tried any of the Fenix BT Series Bike Lights yet?




I'm currently commute using the BT-20 and I love it. I have it on my handle bars but one review said its not so great mounted on your helmet.
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Re: How bright is to bright?

Postby Red Rider » Wed May 29, 2013 1:41 pm

kukamunga wrote:Just thought I'd offer this up:
Graham Bradshaw, Executive Officer, Retail Cycle Traders Australia wrote:In the Autumn 2013 Issue of 'Cycle Trader News':

"The Standards Australia committee looking at bicycle related standards in Australia is looking at bicycle lighting, partly because the existing standard is nearly 20 years old, and partly because there has been a rise in complaints, by motorists, pedestrians and cyclists, about overly bright lights dazzling them. High powered lights are fine for off road adventures, but on shared paths and road lanes too bright a light is an issue. There is a balance between being seen and dazzling others, my pet dislike is helmet mounted headlights, as when the user turns to look at you, all trace of any night vision you may have developed is gone!

Body mounted tail-lights can also be a problem as when the rider leans forward to take the handlebars, the light is pointing at the sky and not effective at all. It will be interesting to see what proposals the committee comes up with, and what comments are received during the public comment period"
So, has anyone tried any of the Fenix BT Series Bike Lights yet?

With regards to the rear light, there was a guy in our bunch that had what seemed to be a fricking laser beam for a tail light. Absolutely ridiculous, and I told him so, but still didn't turn it off. :roll:
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Re: How bright is to bright?

Postby jacks1071 » Wed May 29, 2013 4:18 pm

Red Rider wrote:With regards to the rear light, there was a guy in our bunch that had what seemed to be a fricking laser beam for a tail light. Absolutely ridiculous, and I told him so, but still didn't turn it off. :roll:


I installed the Supernova Airstream rear light on a bike last week, its a really nice design. Initially I wondered what to do with the cable, ended up running it under the top tube. 3x zip ties and you'd barely know it was there. I'll probably give the guy a velcroe tie just to strap the end of the cable to the bars when the headlight is away from the bike.

The tail light is very visable but not blinding in anyway.
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Re: How bright is to bright?

Postby kukamunga » Wed May 29, 2013 8:32 pm

Red Rider wrote:With regards to the rear light, there was a guy in our bunch that had what seemed to be a fricking laser beam for a tail light. Absolutely ridiculous, and I told him so, but still didn't turn it off. :roll:
And these are exactly the type of nincompoops who will cry "Nanny State!!!" (are you reading this Mark Webber and David Coulthard ?) when 'the-powers-that-be' bring in regulations to protect right-minded people from these brainless, selfish, twerps :!:

Common sense is a rare commodity these days, and mindless selfishness prevails. Blame it on Rupert Murdoch et al.....

But i digress..... :?
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Re: How bright is to bright?

Postby kukamunga » Wed May 29, 2013 8:42 pm

KonaCommuter wrote:
kukamunga wrote:So, has anyone tried any of the Fenix BT Series Bike Lights yet?
I'm currently commute using the BT-20 and I love it. I have it on my handle bars but one review said its not so great mounted on your helmet
So.... Where did you get it? How much? What do you like about it? Are batteries a hassle? Bright enough?

I'm thinking of getting a BT10 (AA batteries) for commuting. Not sure whether to buy locally, from US, or elsewhere.....
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Re: How bright is to bright?

Postby InTheWoods » Fri May 31, 2013 12:38 pm

kukamunga wrote:
KonaCommuter wrote:
kukamunga wrote:So, has anyone tried any of the Fenix BT Series Bike Lights yet?
I'm currently commute using the BT-20 and I love it. I have it on my handle bars but one review said its not so great mounted on your helmet
So.... Where did you get it? How much? What do you like about it? Are batteries a hassle? Bright enough?

I'm thinking of getting a BT10 (AA batteries) for commuting. Not sure whether to buy locally, from US, or elsewhere.....


There's a review and thread here, btw: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/sho ... &p=4215353
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Re: How bright is to bright?

Postby jasonc » Fri May 31, 2013 1:07 pm

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Re: How bright is to bright?

Postby Big_Red » Fri May 31, 2013 1:22 pm

jasonc wrote:how about this for "too bright":

http://dx.com/p/trustfire-tr-d010-5-x-c ... 650-217130


Oooh, I wants one of those... :)
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Re: How bright is to bright?

Postby KonaCommuter » Fri May 31, 2013 5:28 pm

kukamunga wrote:
KonaCommuter wrote:
kukamunga wrote:So, has anyone tried any of the Fenix BT Series Bike Lights yet?
I'm currently commute using the BT-20 and I love it. I have it on my handle bars but one review said its not so great mounted on your helmet
So.... Where did you get it? How much? What do you like about it? Are batteries a hassle? Bright enough?

I'm thinking of getting a BT10 (AA batteries) for commuting. Not sure whether to buy locally, from US, or elsewhere.....



I bought through these guys and I was happy with their service http://www.batterymax.com.au/products/N ... Gifts.html

I was very hesitant to change from my AA only (and maybe AAA) standard for batteries. After all, I'm all set up for AA with plenty of high quality batteries and top notch charger. But I was sick and tired of changing the batteries every two days on my previous set up, of course I'd forgotten more than once to change them. Fortunately it was only the one time that I totally came unstuck (unlit bike path at 4.30am with no lights and no moon). Whilst this was Fenix's first foray into bike specific lights I have a couple of their torches and I'm very happy with them. So I took a chance and with hesitation I went with the BT-20.

The battery life on it is phenomenal. Keep in mind that I don't commute overly far 12km a day roughly 1/2 hour give or take. I get two weeks on the low setting then I charge them up over the weekend(edit to add - they don't need charging I just do it to calm my nerves) . I store the battery pack in one of those "Bento" boxes that triathletes use to store food and what-a-not when they're doing their thing. The lights easy to take on and off but it also gives me the impression of having longevity (it comes with extra clips). The light can be pointed in different directions easily.

I do find the low setting more than enough as a "To be seen by" light. I ride along well lit roads at the moment because I'm a sook and would rather lie in bed than ride the long way along the unlit bike path. The highest setting is insane in low light, I've only used it once and that was during the day when it was pouring rain. The flash setting is a bit strange as in it pulses for a bit, then it's a strobe. I'm not sure if I like that.


I use it on my handlebars, I watched the review which says it's unsuitable mounted on a helmet but the reviewer was talking technical MTB at night. As a "to be seen" light I can't see it not working.
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Re: How bright is to bright?

Postby warthog1 » Fri May 31, 2013 7:53 pm

jasonc wrote:how about this for "too bright":

http://dx.com/p/trustfire-tr-d010-5-x-c ... 650-217130
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Yep looks like a completely unfocused pos. Would blind anyone going the other way.

The sooner they bring in beam pattern standards for bicycles the better. Lights such as those should bring standards in quicker.
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Re: How bright is to bright?

Postby yarravalleyplodder » Fri May 31, 2013 8:06 pm

I picked up a supervova airstream off dion, must say its a smart looking light and not as big as I thought it would be.

I was planning on testing it with a ride up the 1 in 20 tomorrow well before sunrise but looking at the weather sunday might be its first run. I will post my thoughts but a quick look outside when I got it the beam looks good
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Re: How bright is to bright?

Postby InTheWoods » Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:22 pm

Are your lights too bright if suddenly you have x-ray like vision and can see right through the tights of the female rider in front of you? :shock: :oops:
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