Reflectors on newly purchased bike

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Re: Reflectors on newly purchased bike

Postby il padrone » Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:21 pm

Mulger bill wrote:Matty, the blue bit is exactly why I think that factory wheel reflectors are useless, you want the smokebox to spot you before you are directly in front (or the tiny +/- 5 degree or whatever viewing angle they're good for).

Actually the standard Cateye bicycle reflectors do have a bit wider angle of reflectivity. It is a bit greater than you make out there. They are probably visible for up to 45 degrees either side of a 90 degree angle, as the diagram below shows. The Cateye reflectors are a whole series of small corner reflectors, that throw light directly back at the source.

Image



Probably the best option is a set of tyres with a reflective strip on them. These are very conspicuous.

Image


Ultimately what stops you being hit by a car in a side-entry situation is not side reflectors, but rather a very good bright beam on your headlight :idea:
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
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by BNA » Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:44 pm

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Re: Reflectors on newly purchased bike

Postby Duck! » Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:44 pm

Nobody wrote:
Duck! wrote:
Lukeyboy wrote:What about dish wheels? They don't have any spokes to put reflectors on. :P :P

Actually they do. "Dish" is entirely the effect of asymmetric hub flanges to accommodate the gears or brake rotor.
He probably meant disc wheels. Although now you'll probably reply with, "But MTB disc brake wheels have spokes too." :)
Image

I don't think I've ever seen a disc wheel as OEM spec on a bike. As for disc brake wheels, nothing more needs to be said, because to the best of my knowledge at this point in time there is no disc-braked disc wheel in existence.

Now, back to the original question.....

Bikes must comply with Australian Standards regulations in order to be sold here, and among those regulations is the fitment of reflectors etc. The responsibility to comply is on the importers & retailers rather than the consumers. There is an escape clause whereby if a bike is clearly identified on the shop floor as a special purpose, not-for-open-road use then it may breach some of the requirements; eg. by this method a track bike is able to be sold without brakes.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.
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Re: Reflectors on newly purchased bike

Postby bychosis » Thu Nov 28, 2013 6:07 am

According to AS1927 bikes must be sold with front, rear, sides and pedal reflectors, pedals can be excluded from the reflector requirement if clipless or there is insufficient space.
A bike must also:
- be no wider than 700mm,
- have a bell (but not at point of sale in NZ)
- have a min two seatpost diameters from the end as minimum insert and
- back pedal brake on childrens bike (with wheelbase 640-765mm).
Bikes with wheelbase less than 640mm are considered toys and AS8124 is applicable.
As above this does not apply to special purpose bikes not for open road use.

I think other requirements (not found in the above AS though) for bike safety at point of sale are that they are sold with two brakes and a chain guard (derailleur counts).

Once the bike is out the door it only need have one brake, bell, and rear reflector, front/rear lights for night for use on the road.
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Re: Reflectors on newly purchased bike

Postby Nobody » Thu Nov 28, 2013 6:10 am

il padrone wrote:
Mulger bill wrote:Matty, the blue bit is exactly why I think that factory wheel reflectors are useless, you want the smokebox to spot you before you are directly in front (or the tiny +/- 5 degree or whatever viewing angle they're good for).

Actually the standard Cateye bicycle reflectors do have a bit wider angle of reflectivity. It is a bit greater than you make out there. They are probably visible for up to 45 degrees either side of a 90 degree angle, as the diagram below shows. The Cateye reflectors are a whole series of small corner reflectors, that throw light directly back at the source.

Probably the best option is a set of tyres with a reflective strip on them. These are very conspicuous.

Ultimately what stops you being hit by a car in a side-entry situation is not side reflectors, but rather a very good bright beam on your headlight :idea:
Yes, it's about lights if you want to survive on the road. Reflectors are useless in some situations.
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=63771#p959396

AngryAsian wrote:Just as automobiles have adopted daytime running lights, I advocate the use of high-powered LED blinkers anytime you hit the road. This is a trend that I happily see growing amongst amateurs but it's one that I first noticed with some professional riders, such as Colorado-based Lucas Euser from the UnitedHealthcare squad.

http://www.bikeradar.com/au/commuting/g ... oad-39130/
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Re: Reflectors on newly purchased bike

Postby Lukeyboy » Thu Nov 28, 2013 7:56 am

bychosis wrote:I think other requirements (not found in the above AS though) for bike safety at point of sale are that they are sold with two brakes and a chain guard (derailleur counts).


Unless its a track bike :P

And above. Yes I meant disc wheels. Not dish wheels :oops: :oops:
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Re: Reflectors on newly purchased bike

Postby high_tea » Thu Nov 28, 2013 8:39 am

AngryAsian wrote:Just as automobiles have adopted daytime running lights, I advocate the use of high-powered LED blinkers anytime you hit the road. This is a trend that I happily see growing amongst amateurs but it's one that I first noticed with some professional riders, such as Colorado-based Lucas Euser from the UnitedHealthcare squad.

http://www.bikeradar.com/au/commuting/g ... oad-39130/ [/quote]
(not sure if emphasis in original or not?)

Or, have dynamo powered lights and just run them all the time. Bonus: no flat batteries to worry about.

/dynohubfanboi
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Re: Reflectors on newly purchased bike

Postby g-boaf » Thu Nov 28, 2013 8:47 am

bychosis wrote:According to AS1927 bikes must be sold with front, rear, sides and pedal reflectors, pedals can be excluded from the reflector requirement if clipless or there is insufficient space.
A bike must also:
- be no wider than 700mm,
- have a bell (but not at point of sale in NZ)
- have a min two seatpost diameters from the end as minimum insert and
- back pedal brake on childrens bike (with wheelbase 640-765mm).
Bikes with wheelbase less than 640mm are considered toys and AS8124 is applicable.
As above this does not apply to special purpose bikes not for open road use.

I think other requirements (not found in the above AS though) for bike safety at point of sale are that they are sold with two brakes and a chain guard (derailleur counts).

Once the bike is out the door it only need have one brake, bell, and rear reflector, front/rear lights for night for use on the road.


I've never seen any wheel reflectors for these wheels:

Image
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Re: Reflectors on newly purchased bike

Postby MattyK » Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:24 am

il padrone wrote:Probably the best option is a set of tyres with a reflective strip on them. These are very conspicuous.

The only issue with reflective tyres (all of them having an unbroken ring of reflective material) is that they don't convey rotation/movement anywhere near as well as segmented reflective sections on the spokes, tyre or rim do. Still I have them too...
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Re: Reflectors on newly purchased bike

Postby bychosis » Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:45 am

g-boaf wrote:
I've never seen any wheel reflectors for these wheels:

Image

no front or rear either and probably no bell!
"special purpose bikes not for open road use"
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Re: Reflectors on newly purchased bike

Postby g-boaf » Thu Nov 28, 2013 11:31 am

They were all taken off for cleaning. ;) Just a shame it doesn't stay clean for long. A bell on carbon bars.... :shock: I'll just ride carefully and use my voice.

I actually do have a rear-reflector for that bike as well. Due to the aero seat-post, the clamp for it is quite unusual.
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Re: Reflectors on newly purchased bike

Postby bychosis » Thu Nov 28, 2013 11:44 am

..and once they are taken off for cleaning you only need to reinstall a rear reflector for when riding at night. No excuses for the bell though. The Law is the Law :twisted:
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Re: Reflectors on newly purchased bike.

Postby Nobody » Thu Nov 28, 2013 11:46 am

high_tea wrote:(not sure if emphasis in original or not?)
The bold is mine, but I thought that would be assumed. Sorry.

high_tea wrote:Or, have dynamo powered lights and just run them all the time. Bonus: no flat batteries to worry about.

/dynohubfanboi
Do they flash?

I've got AyUps and just recharge first thing after every ride. The rear Cateye LD-610 has rechargeable AAA batteries which rarely need recharging. That probably indicates I need a higher power rear light.
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Re: Reflectors on newly purchased bike

Postby g-boaf » Thu Nov 28, 2013 12:17 pm

bychosis wrote:..and once they are taken off for cleaning you only need to reinstall a rear reflector for when riding at night. No excuses for the bell though. The Law is the Law :twisted:


I don't know - I'm wary of even the k-edge on the bar. It gets a wrapping of electrical tape before I put that on. :shock: And the paint finish on that thing is as much of a pain as those BMW M3s and M6 Gran Coupes with the "Frozen" paint finishes. :roll:
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Re: Reflectors on newly purchased bike

Postby myforwik » Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:46 pm

All vehicles must have reflectors - as they are allowed to be parked on the side of the road with lights off. Plus you want reflectors - if you go over a bumb and your light fails, and you are a dangerous area like a bridge with no way out but forward.

Having said that, I doubt anyone has ever been pinged for it. However shops get in trouble all the time for selling bikes without reflectors - they are required by law.
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Re: Reflectors on newly purchased bike

Postby outnabike » Thu Nov 28, 2013 5:23 pm

I like the reflector and bell as it is constantly going and very safe .With his set up you don't need the card in the spokes with the cloths peg.I put the reflective tape on just in case.

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Re: Reflectors on newly purchased bike

Postby Duck! » Thu Nov 28, 2013 6:54 pm

outnabike wrote:Image

Who else can see the legal problem with this setup?
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.
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Re: Reflectors on newly purchased bike

Postby bychosis » Thu Nov 28, 2013 7:10 pm

myforwik wrote: However shops get in trouble all the time for selling bikes without reflectors - they are required by law.

Which is why most shops have a great big box of reflectors and bells. Once the bike is out the door, the customer hands them back in because they are only reqd at the time of sale :D

Duck! wrote: ...problem....

Just need to ride it backwards. 8)
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Re: Reflectors on newly purchased bike

Postby GH » Thu Nov 28, 2013 7:47 pm

Duck! wrote:
outnabike wrote:Image

Who else can see the legal problem with this setup?



Red reflector on front, tut tut, WHITE reflective tape please.......lol
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Re: Reflectors on newly purchased bike.

Postby high_tea » Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:10 pm

Nobody wrote:
high_tea wrote:Or, have dynamo powered lights and just run them all the time. Bonus: no flat batteries to worry about.

/dynohubfanboi
Do they flash?

I've got AyUps and just recharge first thing after every ride. The rear Cateye LD-610 has rechargeable AAA batteries which rarely need recharging. That probably indicates I need a higher power rear light.


I haven't ever heard of flashing dynamo lights. You got me curious, though, and google threw this up...

http://minisystem.blogspot.com.au/2011/12/flashing-dynamo-light-prototype.html

..which sounds cool, but way too much trouble for my taste. Mind you, recharging batteries is too much trouble for me :D Hence the dynamo lights. TBH, I don't run them in daylight as a safety thing. I just can't be bothered turning them off. It doesn't hurt leaving them on and if it helps, so much the better.
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Re: Reflectors on newly purchased bike

Postby il padrone » Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:27 pm

There are, to my knowledge, no commercially available dynamo lights that flash. It'd be fairly troublesome to build anyway, and I doubt it gives that much benefit. I'm not worried about cars from the rear not seeing me, but it's the sidestreet entries and right-turners who are more of a worry as they race to beat you or plain look/don't see. For many of these I think flashers are limited as they ID you as a 'slow cyclist' and they're more likley to dash across. Running a good bright solid light I believe they often mistake me for a motorbike and are much more willing to stop. This I like.
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Re: Reflectors on newly purchased bike

Postby high_tea » Thu Nov 28, 2013 11:09 pm

il padrone wrote:There are, to my knowledge, no commercially available dynamo lights that flash. It'd be fairly troublesome to build anyway, and I doubt it gives that much benefit. I'm not worried about cars from the rear not seeing me, but it's the sidestreet entries and right-turners who are more of a worry as they race to beat you or plain look/don't see. For many of these I think flashers are limited as they ID you as a 'slow cyclist' and they're more likley to dash across. Running a good bright solid light I believe they often mistake me for a motorbike and are much more willing to stop. This I like.


I too have noticed this - people seem to associate dim and/or flashing lights with cyclists and steady, decently bright lights with "proper" :roll: traffic. Some argue, though, that flashing lights are easier to spot. It's not clear to me that one is better than the other. I just find dynamo lights soooo much more convenient. Robust too.
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Re: Reflectors on newly purchased bike

Postby trailgumby » Fri Nov 29, 2013 5:21 am

il padrone wrote:There are, to my knowledge, no commercially available dynamo lights that flash. It'd be fairly troublesome to build anyway, and I doubt it gives that much benefit. I'm not worried about cars from the rear not seeing me, but it's the sidestreet entries and right-turners who are more of a worry as they race to beat you or plain look/don't see. For many of these I think flashers are limited as they ID you as a 'slow cyclist' and they're more likley to dash across. Running a good bright solid light I believe they often mistake me for a motorbike and are much more willing to stop. This I like.

Oh yes. The kind of behaviour you mention is precisely why I invested in a set of Ayups (along with unlit ninjas on unlit bike paths).

For awhile I left the blinky on but kept getting cut off by morons assuming I was slow.

Much better behaviour from drivers when I lost the blinky.

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Re: Reflectors on newly purchased bike

Postby InTheWoods » Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:41 pm

dajackal wrote:
Mulger bill wrote:Plastic reflectors on wheels are right up there with left handed screwdrivers in the usefulness stakes.

Ditch 'em, get some of THIS and apply liberally.


thinking of getting some of this tape for my backpack as it's a dull black and grey
Q: will it stick to a backpack?

also, where are some other good places to apply the tape? back of the pedals? seatstays? just wondering if there's a guide somewhere i can refer to.


Reflectors to the side aren't that much use, for that you need active lighting. If a car is pointing its headlights at you from the side, how far away is it going to be? That's right, you're going to be 3 meters in front of it as you go past the intersection - 3m = too late. That said, I put white 3m relective tape on the non-braking part of my rims, but that can be seen from oblique angles from the rear and front quite well.

Reflectors are good for rear/front visibility though. The best place is low down. Car low beams are low for a reason, you need the relectors down into that space. So bottom of seatstays is one of the best places for red reflectors. Same with pedals or shoes. The best for that really though is a reflective ankle strap - its down low and it moves around a lot as you pedal, and it covers ALL angles as it wraps around your ankle. Relative contrast+movement+almost 360 degrees = bonus visibility.
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Re: Reflectors on newly purchased bike

Postby antigee » Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:59 pm

For awhile I left the blinky on but kept getting cut off by morons assuming I was slow.


as a driver who rides I'd say easier to spot bright blinky lights in a moving line of traffic and make mental note that they might be obscured by cars/trucks/buses as get closer so keep looking for them to make sure I know were they are in the line of lights

- would also say that the movement of ankle reflectors/reflector pedals does catch the eye and sometimes is the first thing I'll see in the dark if the rider has a legal but by todays standards relatively inadequate rear light

as a cyclist I think I've had as many DTYWGTF's (Didn't Think You Were Going That Fast) as SMIDSY's - sadly the thought process seems to be "it is a bike OK to pull out"
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